Submitted 1 day ago by ickplant@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/25227ea5-c2d9-45d5-b0b6-f474e9211b2d.jpeg
These nazi racist fuckheads are still human beings. As unfortunate as it may be and as implausible it might seem, any of us are capable of becoming or raising someone to become entrenched in a bad and hateful ideology. Dehumanizing them doesn’t stop their ideas from spreading. In fact, a big part of their ideology is the dehumanization of different groups of people. So please don’t encourage that practice.
There is only so much empathy you can lend out to a black hole before it sucks you into its hateful gravitational pool. Purity tests like what you are proposing just makes them stronger.
I’m not saying you have to treat them with kindness. I am saying you have to reckon with the fact that they are still human. Or you will be doomed to follow the same path.
Wouldn’t the fascists even argue that empathy is toxic?
It’s literally the one message every old European used to preach to us younger generations back in the day. I remember how important it was to them to make us understand that the minute we start dehumanizing people we don’t like, we are repeating the cycle.
It is why movies like Der Untergang exists. We have to understand that the most despicable people who ever lived were still human beings and much closer to ourselves than we like to think.
I have carried with me, my whole life the knowledge that I am fallible and I am capable of evil no matter how good of a person I think I am. To a lesser extent, every time I have thought I was too clever to fall for x, y and z, that’s when I have fallen right into it. “I would never end up in an abusive relationship. I have too much self respect for that” 🤡 “I’m far too strong to become the doormat in this and that friendship” 🤡 “I’ll never fall for fake information online. I’m too observant” 🤡
I could never trust myself to believe I would be too smart, kind or principled to not fall into a destructive and abusive pattern of behavior if the circumstances are twisted just right. I think more people would benefit if they reminded themselves of their imperfections and got off their high horses. On Lemmy alone I have encountered far too many holier than thou types who are super duper anti fascist but ironically act exactly like fascists, but to them it doesn’t count because they are “on the right side of history”.
Am I sad that some nazi KKK guy died? No. But he was human. Most likely a very terrible human, but still human.
The problem is that fascists know that normal people are empathetic in this way, and they use it against us. It makes it nearly impossible to stop them.
I do agree with almost everything you wrote, but I don’t understand the moral consequence. One do not have to think they’re too smart or too pure to take some kind of solace from the fact that there’s one less fascist walking the earth.
To me, that has nothing to do with being “better” as a human. It’s just that their project means my/our death. The more they grow, the more we die and vice versa. I do not dehumanize them nor do I think they’re stupid or deserve anything.
It’s as simple as : the more they grow, the more anything I care for will wither away.
So give her partial credit on the community service part of the sentence?
Not going to downvote but no they’re subhuman.
Nazi lives don’t matter. The paradox of tolerance goes both ways. Do not tolerate the intolerant.
It’s not even a paradox. Being tolerant means allowing things you disagree with, but only up to a point.
It is fallacy to think that if we are intolerant to intolerance, we then become intolerant, thus defeating our own tolerance.
A fallacy mostly promoted by right-wingers.
The problem I have is that, although we shouldn’t tolerate Nazis, treating their deaths in car accidents as a non-event at best, or a national holiday at worst, does feel like moving toward the same dehumanising treatment that Nazis give to those they hate.
I don’t like it.
Genuinely curious your perspective: so what then?
How would you want to handle the growing fascism problem because I believe shaming, ridicule and cruelty are due with where we stand and with how bad things are and how much, much, worse they can get.
These are your enemies theh have the entire govenment and a cult and they want to brutalize, make illegal and remove people (one way or the other).
What do you propose?
I believe I called them fuckheads so I don’t seem to have a problem with ridicule. My point of contention is in the reply tweet of “no human being was harmed”. I’m not trying to defend the thoughts or actions of these people, I’m just saying we have to recognize that they are people. I propose building a better world, proving those ideas wrong, and defending ourselves when necessary.
Shame, cruelty, and ridicule, but as humans. Let them own what they did.
Ummmm.
No?
Fuck nazis and kkk and southern pride and confederate apologists and white supremacists and bigots of all kinds.
Like get fucked. Straight up well known nazis can fucking die. They are worthless. They make a choice to continue being that way. They can do irreparable harm.
Like, fucking no. Just no. You’re pathetic.
The ability to strip away the title of “human being” is exactly what they are arguing for. You just have different criteria.
Why do you think considering someone human is mutually exclusive with wishing death upon them/thinking it’s fine for them to die.
I would ask you, is it OK to fight Nazis in a war? If you say yes, then what’s the difference?
The point isn’t whether or not it is okay to fight nazis. The commenter only states that the guy who died is still a human even if we don’t like him.
That is a fact. If we start dehumanizing people we don’t like, we open ourselves up to becoming monsters no matter how justified we feel we are.
I struggle with this myself. I have a deep-seated disgust toward narcissists and emotionally, I do not consider them human beings. Rationally, I know that they are and that if I continue to refuse to accept that they are one of the countless aspects of humanity, I open myself up to my own narcissistic aspects, where I see an entire subsection of humanity as lesser than me, as pests instead of human beings with a severe personality disorder that most likely came from repeated childhood neglect and abuse.
It is okay to feel strong negative emotions toward people we don’t like, but we cannot allow ourselves to dehumanizing them because that is how we become monsters ourselves.
Empathy is hard because it isn’t always the easiest or most comfortable path. It can feel downright injust at times, but that is all emotions talking. The more we think about it, truly reflect on it, the more we will understand that choosing empathy over emotional outbursts, will serve us and society far better in the long run. But it is fucking difficult.
Are you incapable of fighting someone you consider human?
Two counterpoints to this (although I like the spirit):the paradox of intolerance suggests that intolerance will easily spread if we tolerate it. So in a world where tolerance is abundant: intolerance itself should still not be tolerated.
In a way I feel this may be saying the same thing again, but when we speak of protected classes and human rights we generally think of immutable qualities assigned at birth. That is, it’s not okay to discriminate based on things such as skin color, height, sound of voice, heritage, language, race, disability etc. and you get the idea.
Modern ideas stretch this a bit, as sexuality and gender identity have recently (as in within the last century, and only then within more educated cultures) entered as protected facets of human expression due to our understanding of them as involuntary. Even an individual’s personal religion is universally considered to not be up for debate, even though each of the world’s religions are composed of transient beliefs that an individual is allowed to change whether they are comfortable with it or not.
Any group’s ideas for societal idealism do not and should not get these types of protections, because ideas obviously should change if a better idea is presented. It should be agreed upon that whatever utopia is (for however the human race can get close to it), it would need to be universally agreed upon by all living individuals as well as all possible human group permutations. This is seemingly insurmountably large, so some of us tried to take shortcuts by eliminating other groups, and to make a long story short you could say the world universally condemned these ideas as one of the first “global” acts.
The point is, if somebody has:
Willingly violated the social contract in defiance of available historical context and public information, and
Elected to voluntarily hold that an aforementioned Protected Class of people should be either eliminated or exiled (in service to making their version of utopia easier to achieve), then
Then this somebody has found themselves to be a member of the one group of people (a group founded on voluntary belief) that society at large would be better to either eliminate or exile.
Obviously debate is preferred but one cannot reason with somebody who believes deep down in another group’s inferiority.
I agree with all you wrote, and it’s a good point well made. However, in the context of what it’s replying to, it could be interpreted as condoning the death penalty for extremists, which I disagree with, if it was intended that way.
My point is less about what rights they might deserve, and more about staying informed and vigilant of the ideological capacities of human beings, including yourself.
one of the primary protections of the constitution is that nobody can infringe upon your constitutional rights. if they do, they lose some of the protections given to them through the constitution.
I think it’s fair that if some racist fuckhole wants to kill people based on their color or gender identity, it’s only fair that we celebrate when they die. obviously death is not the goal, however a celebration that the hate they injected into the world is now slightly weaker over all is.
my point is, if you lead a life of an asshole you will be remembered as an asshole.
You can celebrate their deaths all you want. But Wlwhen you start dehumanizing them you’re taking notes from their playbook. Be better than them.
I disagree with the comment directly below you.
I like my mom way more than my dad, and I took on her political beliefs(which are objectively better).
But we are all creatures of our environment.
Yes yes, we won’t use this as an excuse to fix the broken clock
If this situation was reversed, MAGA would have raised $100k for her legal defense by now.
She would have been pardoned by the President lol
Fascist Lives Don’t Matter.
🤘
I’d say give her back her driver’s licence, but its only valid in towns occupied by the kkk/neo-nazis
My grandfather killed a nazi and became a hero. Ms. Sherry does it and she becomes the enemy. That doesn’t seem fair.
It does. When you did not discriminate but happen to do the “right” thing you are not to praise.
Jury nullification?
When did that work last?
On the vehicular manslaughter sure, on drunk driving charges, I should hope not. Sure this time a Nazi scumbag who deserves to die was killed, but next time it might be someone wholely innocent. Just because we hate the victim doesn’t mean what she did was reckless.
If we are taking it seriously, that lady is lucky to be alive let alone able to open a car door at a BAC of .42. Secondly if she was at a .42 and looked that well put together when they let her out of the drunk tank the next morning it’s just not fair.
The politics of the victim probably couldn’t be mentioned during the trial. They often suppress that sort of stuff
Just like the mass murdering shooter who killed the Blackstone executive in his spree. I don’t condone mass shootings, but sometimes some good accidentally comes of it.
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We are in an administration that lives by “the ends justify the means”, so I’ll allow it this once.
I can’t fix her because there’s nothing to fix.
I can’t, but I want more of her.
some people do their best work when drunk
can you imagine trying to repent and make amends for this one, and every loved one of that asshole is just as bad as they are.
The emotional strain might drive one to drink again…
Forgive me God and Parole Officer, there’s something I must do.
The good thing about forgiveness is that it doesn’t have to be actually granted in order for the person to see the errors in their way and meaningfully repent. Works the other way too, you don’t have to forgive anyone for anything ever (though that can arguably be harmful to yourself).
John Brown would be so proud!
Let them eat eachother.
See what my Christian God did for you?
Yeah no, saying fascists aren’t human beings isn’t “funny” or “quirky”. Is fascists dying a beautiful thing? Sure. But they’re still humans.
How many Promille is that?
0,84
…
Sooo not really shitfaced
What? .42% BAC = 4.2% promille, over five times the legal limit and potentially fatal.
Your conversion took a wrong turn somewhere. BAC is just percentage, promille is parts per thousand. So to convert, multiply by ten. Making it 4,2 promille. Really shitfaced. Very potentially life threatening even if you are not driving.
Sounds like a property crime.
To tell the truth I backed over the last two with my car.
Fortunately they turned out to be Nazis.
I’m really hoping the people I plan to hit in the future also turn out to be Nazis.
Now that’s a line I haven’t heard since about 1991.
Reminds me of my high school crush ngl.
I approve of her driving skills
I’m glad to see cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers is making a comeback
Everyone is being called Nazi these days. It’s an ‘accusation’ or ‘assertion’, not fact.
splcenter.org/…/former-neo-nazi-candidate-us-sena…
You really picked the wrong guy to draw the line in the sand for. Dude was a regional coordinator for a neo-Nazi organization…
I wonder if this is the reason why Elon went around Nazi saluting. Republicans have mastered the art of confusing the general public by overusing words and phrases.
“Fake news” used to mean something entirely different before Trump co-opted it to mean any news that he didn’t like.
After Trump was impeached twice, Republicans started throwing around impeachment not only for Biden, but for lower level officials as well, so people would think “oh impeachment must be a normal thing.”
It’s kind of telling that Republicans are doing intentional Nazi-like shit, therefore getting the general public, like the person you responded to, to think that “Nazi” is just a term the left throws around recklessly.
We’re at a point where they’re throwing people in camps like Alligator Auschwitz without trial - and then people say “that’s what the Nazis used to do” and then it just gets laughed off like “oh you know the left, always accusing everyone of being Nazis.”
I’ve never been called a nazi because I don’t go around saying or doing nazi things, like apologizing for nazis
I once got called a Nazi and a Communist at the same time.
It was in response to a remark about social healthcare systems, which I can’t deny both Marx and the Nazis’ NSV were all for that. But one could note some slight differences in opinion on how to go about it, plus a few other little things here and there.
Virtue signal more, it compensates for low IQ.
saigot@lemmy.ca 23 hours ago
there was an old redditism that the best way to get off with murder is to use your car and call it an accident… I wonder if this is that. Get plastered, kill a nazi, go to jail for 5 years instead of 20.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 23 hours ago
Not a redditism. An urbinist-ism. Reddit had a healthy contingent of urbanists, but you’ll find us here on Lemmy too, over at !fuckcars@lemmy.world, or !urbanism@slrpnk.net. (Or, frankly, because it’s a movement with significant overlap to anticapitalism, just all around the threadiverse.)
And it’s completely true, too. I can easily think of half a dozen cases where someone killed someone else with a car and got away scott-free in my country alone (in fact: with just one exception, the ones that come to my mind are all in my city alone). And only one of those cases even went to court as far as I know.
dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 23 hours ago
Dan Sheehan (of “NOT A WOLF”) wrote a piece about how easy it is to get away with vehicular murder on his blog: reallyveryhuman.com/…/where-can-a-car-kill-me
Rinox@feddit.it 6 hours ago
In Italy there’s been a big push against this in the last decade.
There’s now a law called “road murder” (omicidio stradale) which makes the penalties for killing someone while driving, especially if intoxicated, more similar to intentional murder (rather than manslaughter). It’s essentially aggravated manslaughter, when you cause the death of someone while driving recklessly.
BurgerBaron@piefed.social 15 hours ago
In Canada you'd be unlucky to even get jail time at all, it's fucked. We're kinda infamous for this.
One I remember was a driver going 120 km/hr in a 60 zone, ran over some girl guides, and kills an 8 year old.
2 years of house arrest.
madthumbs@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
I doubt someone with that BAC is doing much intentionally. Maybe if you chugged a bunch before the BAC test just after the accident.
TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I mean, how long did it take the cops to get there? Because .42 is crazy fucking high. It can absolutely kill you it’s so high. She would have had to have more than 10 drinks in an hour for that. That’s about two thirds of a fifth between the time it was called in and when the cops got there.
I’m not saying it’s not doable. I’m saying if she did that she was trying to die.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 hours ago
Genuinely true! Killing with cars is a misdemeanor.
cattywampas@midwest.social 19 hours ago
This depends on the state and depends wildly on the circumstances. Driving in a reckless manner, e.g. while intoxicated, and killing someone is probably a felony everywhere.
LePoisson@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
She’s going to prison for at least another 15 years before she’s eligible for parole.
But I hear you in the car accident bullshit
WillFord27@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
She lists on her WriteAPrisoner page that her biggest inspiration is Maya Angelou, a black civil rights activist. She also has her bachelor’s in journalism. Not impossible lol.
Unfortunately her earliest release date is midway through 2033, 15 years after incarceration in 2018.
Booboofinget@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
I’d buy her a drink!