Be me Min wage job Go to college for game programming in 2019, think ill be a game developer Degree in '23 130k debt Companies hiring Grok over actual programmers Still only min wage job MFW
Anon is 23
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works to greentext@sh.itjust.works
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/3e59f820-c703-442c-a4f3-053a78e57744.png
Comments
Oka@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
MurrayL@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t envy anyone trying to break into the games industry right now - you graduated at exactly the time all the investment left, layoffs hit, and jobs dried up.
It’s hard enough trying to find positions right now if you have years of experience, let alone as a fresh grad with none.
ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Me in game dev school right now 🥲 Fortunately I have previous experience and while I’m studying for design I’ve already been a programmer for a number of years. I’ll make it but yeah… Applying for jobs won’t get me anywhere I’m gonna have to know a guy who knows a guy
AFallingAnvil@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Fortunately, the indie scene is still booming. If you went into games because you love it, you still have a fair shot at making something you want and finding an audience.
Oka@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Exactly. Shits fucked, I dont think i deserve the debt im stuck with.
msage@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Was ever gaming industry the place to be?
It always seemed that the big companies kept fucking everyone over, not just the devs.
snoons@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Anon discovers capitalism and for-profit post-secondary education.
yucandu@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Could be worse. Could be living in China with even more capitalism.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Could be better?
spicytuna62@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I got my degree in 2014 at 22, and it still took scores of applications to get even a handful of interviews and one job offer for $17 an hour. I can only imagine what young people deal with today. I know it’s only worsened in the last half decade or so.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Yeah… The early 00s seems to be the last time when just getting any practical degree seemed to be a decent investment. After the 08 recession things seemed to only really bounce back for people with specified graduate degrees.
At this point I would say that it’s better to wait to go to school until you know what you want to do, and only if that job requires a specific degree. Anything else just seems to be gambling with loans.
spicytuna62@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I encouraged my sister to not go to school (against what everyone else in my family told her). Now she’s in several thousand dollars worth of debt and has no degree. She wanted to do nursing, but she actually does not enjoy caring for super needy people. It took a couple months of wiping butts in the old folks home for her to flunk out.
She didn’t take out a loan, but they take what tax refunds she would get each year.
finalarbiter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Coming out of grad school in 2024, I had to submit ~300 applications to get 4 interviews and 2 offers for engineering roles. From what I hear, it’s gotten even worse since then- companies are posting fake positions to look busy even in the middle of hiring freezes and ai bullshit has infected the recruiting process too.
uberfreeza@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This thread has a lot of people saying things like “don’t get a degree” or “get a trade cert” or “work in a different field to get experience” which I feel completely side-steps many issues and the realities that many people face. It’s just a fundamentally broken system. The value of degrees fluctuates so much because of a political climate that has the stability of a pane of glass being violently thrown off of a building and a job market that prioritizes either posting ghost jobs to overwork employees to death or outsourcing its candidate search to whoever can guess the most buzzwords in an application.
rumba@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
While volatile is a good way to describe the day to day. It’s been trending worse for many years now.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
worse for whom?
if you are making 100K or more, you’re doing great.
Avicenna@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
gets a degree in public health to help humanity
Trump completely ousts public health and replaces it with dodgy supplements
MutantTailThing@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
We have come to the point where me must accept that it is normal for people to spend their early 20s smoking weed and masturbating
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
was it ever not normal for people from middle class and upper middle class families to do that?
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
I only did 1 of those and managed to get a house by my late 20s a few years ago.
MutantTailThing@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I did both, quit the weed a long time ago.
To compensate I still crank my hog like it owes me money.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
The social contract has been destroyed. Time to get the pitchforks!
taiyang@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I graduated into Bush’s recession, so I went to get a PhD in education. They pay you a small wage to do research, guaranteed for 5 years in my program. Graduated that into a healthy economy that… old professors weren’t willing to retire from. Finally give up after several second place rejections and take a simple adjunct professor job just in time for the pandemic, cutting my classes to a third.
But hey, at least I didn’t get that job at NCES; Trump 2.0 royally fucked all those education PhD federal jobs.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
the problem with folks and their degrees is they fall into sunk cost fallacy. you have to get a job in your field or you have wasted your entire education.
no, you don’t. what you need to do is learn to market your skills to appeal to a broad range of employers, many of whom are looking for skills more than degrees.
taiyang@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s a fairly broad take that didn’t really apply to me. I wanted to impact education policy in the US because I noticed how decrepit it was. I was denied that opportunity but managed to get some top tier data analytic skills through the process that I could capitalize on if I was willing to work in the private sector (such as health insurance or financial industry predictive models). There is still massive demand for those skills.
But I don’t do that, not because of sunk cost but because I don’t want to contribute to systems I find immoral. I took a job in a Psychology department, which isn’t my field, since it lets me teach while taking care of my children.
You are right, though, the research field has some serious issues that need to be resolved. There has been some push for open source materials that people can contribute to, but given the current state of affairs globally, it’s not something people can really deal with right now.
That said, a PhD in any research profession is a passion project. You don’t do it for money, but for intellectual curiosity or some other reason. Towards that end, they should be stubborn – they’re already rejecting the idea that education is a means towards profit.
Unfortunately, that also means most PhDs are already wealthy going into it (especially those who can actually afford to finish) which means, at least in education and politics, those perspectives dominate the field. It’s a real problem when they don’t understand how 99% of the rest of us live.
Out of curiosity, which field did you need to leave? Each has their own problems.
DragonAce@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is me but I’m in my 40s with over 25 years experience in my field. My ex left me hi and dry when she left me and I can’t find a job despite my applying anywhere and everywhere that might pay more than minimum wage. I’ve still got my own place, but the shame I feel having to ask my parents for money is unbearable at times.
I’m currently trying to start my own business, but I still need money to pay bills in the interim. Capitalism is a fucking cancer on society.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Don’t look down on trade schools. The trades are a great way to make good money and not likely to be replaced by AI… If I was that age today, I would be very strongly looking at that type of work. Or something in the medical field.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
You’re assuming this exists tho…
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think there has been a clear pivot towards trade schools in recent years. I recently toured my old high school as part of my 20 year reunion. It is far more focused on the trades now. Back when I was going they got rid of all the shop classes. Now they’re back and they have a big focus.
Malyca@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I feel so sad for the younger people. At least companies seem to be hiring again, people are getting cold calls. I told my son not to go to college, he’ll just become a debt slave.
drmoose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
College is not only about a degree it’s part of our social culture and you’re making your child miss out on that due to fear.
bagsy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is how revolutions start. Some smooth talker is going to come along and motivate all these people to do something wonderful or terrible.
mursejoy@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
My group of buddies always say that if gaming hadn’t become so wildly popular a revolution started by young men would have happened already.
The US is really good at placating the masses with media. Stay distracted, stay oppressed.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Bread and circuses. An concept thousands of years old.
staph@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Don’t worry, gaming is quickly becoming unaffordable to anyone without a serious income stream.
xav@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Hahaha ! “We would start a revolution but we’re too busy gaming on the couch”. What a bunch of losers indeed.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
4chan and reddit were instrumental in the election of Trump (45). CMV.
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Why do you think ghislane was power-moderating reddit until 2019 and eglin was [redacted] {user has unfortunately died in a vehicle collision and subsequent lithium fire}
FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Just as soon as the porn stops being so abundant and interesting to occupy all of OOP’s free time
echodot@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Yeah because this guy is totally trying to be a useful member of society with his lounging around all day watching TV.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I bet back in the day people wished Hitler stuck with jerking off 3 times a day.
benderbeerman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Why are people talking like being a mechanic is bum work, or like there’s a huge overhead cost in being a mechanic, or that you have to go to trade school to be a mechanic, or like mechanic work is going away?
None of these is true.
Mechanics will always have work, usually with overtime, and usually pay is very decent.
No degree required. Certs optional.
Tools are very affordable when you’re not buying them all at once.
Lots of room to change specializations.
ICE mechanics are still going to be hugely in demand because the Internal Combustion Engine isn’t going anywhere, even if they stop putting them in some/ most automobiles. But there are dozens of other mechanical disciplines, and as long as you know how to (when to) then a wrench, you can always get a job.
A bearing is a bearing, whether it’s on a crank shaft, an electric motor, a tail pulley, or a garage door.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
do you know any mechanics?
every mechanic I have met hates their life, unless they work for like a really high end place. and those jobs are far and few.
benderbeerman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I… uh… i am a mechanic. I just don’t work in a car shop that pays only billable hours. Why would you do that to yourself?
That would be like getting a minimum wage serving job and hoping the tips will be reliable. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I never struggle for hours, I have great benefits, non- union, no certs, degrees, or specialization required. I make enough to pay all my bills, invest in retirement, and still have money left over for life afterward. I work with a gang of guys all doing the same. We work in a field where we can go pretty much anywhere and get another job paying about the same.
I’m not sure why the mechanics you have met can’t find these jobs, but they have all misinformed you.
mursejoy@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Trade work is admirable work. Never downplay fields that allow overtime. My best salary years are in an industry that allows unlimited OT.
quarkquasar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I must be a psycho for thinking people should be paid more rather than work themselves to death.
It’s a cold world to live in when people think like this.
benderbeerman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I worked 3300 hours a few years back. I was not prepared for what the overtime would do to my taxes. Still brought home more than I ever had before (or since). Also was not prepared what the overtime would do to my personal life or my mind.
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
HAAANK DONT ABBREVIATE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE HAAANK
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
shop rate around me $180/hr now. the mechanics better be making at least a quarter of that. my company only charges half that rate for custom machine building
StaticFalconar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
While college sure aint the answer to everything, spending your days jerking off and watching TV sure aint the answer either.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
If you got the degree you can land a basic government job that isn’t in a major city. Process permits for 20 an hour in a small town easily. And the smaller more rural towns don’t usually require a degree and will consider someone who will just live in town.
And from there you can work you way up way better than any corporate environment.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
You can always get a job as a prison guard. Sidebar, you get a job that’s below you and then start a business on paper that’s doing something relevant to your degree field and you hire yourself. Then you put that shit on your resume, wham bam thank you mam, one year later and some interview preparation you got your pick of the litter.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Honestly, if you’re in this situation, and you have any interest at all in education, or just think it wouldn’t drive you mad, look into substitute teaching. In my area the only requirement to be a substitute is to have any bachelor’s degree and to be able to pass a very rigorous background check. (Think fingerprinting.) I’m currently exploring a mid-career transition to K12 teaching, and I’m planning on doing a bunch of substitute teaching in the coming school year. Substitutes make about $260/day in my district. Not amazing money, but it still comes to a solid $30/hr or so. And there’s enough demand at least where I’m at that they often have postings go unfilled.
And hell, just getting out of the house and regularly interacting with people will do wonders for your mental health. I wouldn’t recommend substitute teaching as a permanent career. But for someone in transition or trying to get started, it’s a great option. It’s a very useful way of getting past the trap of “I need experience to get the job, but I need the job to get experience.” At least in my area, if you’ve got a bachelor’s and a clean criminal record, you can become a substitute.
chunes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There should be more of a plan for young adults and society than “good luck,” if they want it.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Me too brotha, me too…crank that hog for me one time please o7
Moxie_empathizer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If mechanically inclined, consider FAA Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. You’ll never want for work the wages are great and there’s contracting opportunities all over the world. Really the worst best part is that the defense and “war” sector of aircraft work does pay the best.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Anon was 23 in 2022.
Rest assured, it’s much worse now.
jaybone@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It’s terrifying though. Don’t these people worry what will happen when their parents die? Even if the house is paid off, you still have a lot of monthly expenses.
DozensOfDonner@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
I just got my PhD in December and still jobless. I agree with this sentiment.
psion1369@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I feel like I’m alone with this one, but if you have options, swallow your pride and take them. It’s a paycheck, and can always lead to something better. I took a paycheck job at a retail store and I’m on the management team. Is it something to brag about? God no, it sucks. But my bills are paid and I can advance.
Matriks404@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What’s wrong with being a mechanic?
Smaile@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
just having a job these days is you being ahead.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yet folks on my Lemmy post said its the best time ever to start a business and everyone can do it. I do not understand how. Even though I have hard work ethic and a ton of ideas. I do not get how it works.
Leviathan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My retirement plan is a tent in the park.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
To be fair I was like that when I was 23 a long ass time ago, too…
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Why does he not say what his bachelor’s degree is in? It seems highly relevant
rtxn@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Why is learning a trade only considered a last resort? Even on lemmy, I got downvoted to shit when I commented that people should focus less on degrees and more on industry certification, to have some actual value they can sell to potential employers.
Relying on just degrees that virtually everybody else has is stupid. Anon has nothing that stands out from the soup of zero-experience job seekers.
Kirp123@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Because a lot of trades are pretty bad for your health. They require getting in potentially unsafe environments, dealing with substances or byproducts that can lead to cancers or other occupational diseases. They also require a lot more physical work. So of course people would prefer a cushy office job to trawling through crawlspaces lined with asbestos to plug in a light. Not to mention that a lot of trade jobs are not that great paid when starting out, the good pay comes with years of experience and until you get there you have to suffer through all the above. Sure some office jobs don’t pay well starting out either but you just sit on your ass in a air conditioned office instead of nailing 2x4s in the hot sun for 8 hours.
People always ask this question but they never consider that there are actual valid considerations that make trade jobs unattractive compared to other jobs.
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
The pay part of that equation is dependent on where you are, and what trade you’re talking about.
Where I am, trades generally get paid more than any office job you’re going to get with just a random bachelors degree. And if you join one of the trade unions, especially one of the higher skilled industrial ones (so like electricians, pipefitters, millwrights, etc, as opposed to general labour or residential construction), your pay will be much higher than entry level office positions, and will likely stay higher than anyone who doesn’t get themselves into an upper management type position.
theskyisfalling@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Sitting on your arse all day, everyday is equally bad for your health. I’d probably argue even worse, you can’t get PPE to help protect you from sedentary working conditions.
rtxn@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m not saying that everyone who doesn’t get an office job should immediately become a tradie. When you have nothing else to offer, just having some industry certificate is an advantage. Even if the certificate is unrelated to the job. My first job was assembly machine operator in a factory. My boss straight up told me that he hired me because of my Cisco and ECDL certs that I got in high school (for free because Europe).
And if you do get a job and it doesn’t work out, you’ll still have something.
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Of all the working class, they are often worked the hardest.
CameronDev@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
An electrician certification doesn’t mean a whole lot either. Both are just paper. Degrees with work experience and trades with apprentership time hold a little more value, but its still hit and miss.
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Where aren you that a trade doesn’t require 4 years of schooling and on the job training?
brap@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Depends on where you are in the world. Here you have to have a portfolio and working experience among other qualifications before you can take the assessment. You’re not an electrician until you’re on the register after all that.
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Why is it that you think that an electrician certification is less about checkboxes than a 4-year university degree? Or that the checkboxes are somehow more difficult to game? Most trade schools themselves are a joke, so you have to play the meta game of getting the cert and networking your way to a job. You know, same as your university degree.
The fact is, most trades pay shit, and their big advantage is that you get to start earlier in life, and that you have more opportunities to get overtime pay. That can be a good option for your 20’s, especially during a jobs boom (most trades are infamously boom and bust cycles), but by your 30’s you will get passed up by most of your degree holding peers (and you’ll totally get left in the dust in your 40’s and 50’s).
It’s not good advice to young people. Electricians, plumbers, welders, etc. don’t get paid very much on average, and the ones who break out from that low pay are either highly specialized or climb the small business/management ladder (at which point they benefit from concepts taught in school as well).
BurntWits@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Where are you that plumbers don’t get paid well? At least where I live, plumbing is the default “I want to make a lot of money and don’t know what to do with my life” recommendation. Most trades people I know, on average, make more money than most office people I know, on average. Office jobs may have a higher ceiling but that doesn’t necessarily mean most people are making more. Cut out the top and bottom extremes in pay and trades are definitely the better route to decent pay cheques, at least where I live.
TJDetweiler@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I went to electrical school right out of high school and was an electrician for 10 years. Learned a ton of practical skills, can fix just about any household or mechanical issues, and bought my first house 5 years in. Best decision my parents ever encouraged me to do. Would recommend and also not sure why it gets so much flak
el_eh_chase@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
What did you end up doing afterwards? I’m interested in becoming an electrician out of interest, for the practical skills, and the fact it seems there would be work wherever I find myself in the future. I just don’t want it to be my final stop necessarily. I’m curious what kind of things the trade can lead too.
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s mostly just that in a lot of places you either need the right last name or be close with someone with the right last name to get an apprenticeship.
Blurntout@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
There’s nothing inherently wrong with a skilled trade.
That said historical opinion on the quality of jobs they offered has lead to lower enrolment. Combined with an aging population has people aging out of the workforce creating demand in the “labour market”.
When the underlying reason to pursue any career is capitalisms incentive structure and you can see those wheels grinding it gives the jump on the bandwagon vibe of suggesting a trade the ick.
From personal experience there are two sides of the trades.
Do well entrepreneurs who earn a good living offering services and exploiting labour as any good capitalist does.
Commodified labour who is paid a “fair wage” for their skills but are generally not benefitting from the systemic demand of their skills beyond that.
It’s fair that the hand we’re dealt gives us a choice between a useless degree and a diploma that offers a job
It’s also fair that game is bullshit lol
sobchak@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Nobody I knew that went to trade school was ever able to get a job doing that trade. Granted, we all graduated during the 2008 crash, and were in a very economically depressed rural area.
idiomaddict@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That really depends on the program. A general studies BA from a correspondence school might not indicate much, but a BS in the focus of a highly specialized university does.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Because it’s not even an option for most people.
hcs.la/…/the-disappearance-of-young-people-in-tra…
666dollarfootlong@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Agree, I am 3 years into a bachelor’s degree and like 9 months ago I realised I haven’t really developed any meaningful skills. I have no idea what job I even could have anymore. I chose to pursue BBA because at the time it seemed like an easy way to get a decent office job, and at the beginning all the teachers assured that i’d find my specialty during the studies. Turns out, I do not want to see money, count money or think about money, I just want a job where I create something, do something. So after i’m done with this shit, I think I’ll try to just get a source of income and work on a game or maybe just go to a trade school later
daggermoon@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
That’s a big sandwich.
gibmiser@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Additionally these days anyone can cheat and get through college knowing damn near nothing. I think trade schools (i think) usually still require in person testing of the hands on skills.
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s actually quite difficult to get into a well paying trade, all the apprenticeship programs run on nepotism and then you usually still need to go into business for yourself to actually make a living, and they’re all absolutely saturated since they started pushing trades on millennials and z twenty years ago. Trades are the same gamble as conventional college anymore. There just aren’t any available jobs.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
the need for EV automotive mechanics will only grow, id probably do that if I was in the OPs shoes