Replace waiter with “CEO” and you begin to understand why socialists believe what they do
Anon doesn't tip
Submitted 5 months ago by Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works to greentext@sh.itjust.works
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/6ca5958b-841b-4bc8-9ee0-1952453421c1.jpeg
Comments
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
drake@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
Except instead of 25%, it’s 250%.
GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
It must be hard not knowing even the most basic math. How is this CEO getting more money than I pay for the meal?
VantaBrandon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
*Manages the business, pretty sure that is their actual job, but…
I believe in socialism because the lions share of value should be returned to those who exerted the majority of effort, not the inverse, which is the stupid system we have now
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Yeah. Co-ops of sufficient size have CEOs it’s just that the workers are the board
Skates@feddit.nl 5 months ago
While I agree with you - who can say which workers exert the majority of effort?
By the amount of physical effort - sure, blue collar workers do the most. But this effort is also easy to find from others - everyone can do unskilled labor. So should they receive a lion’s share of the company profits just because, what? They managed to get hired?
By the amount of admin, maybe it should be IT or HR or some similar department. Without them, you wouldn’t be efficient. Without them you’d never be able to expand. But they don’t work on the actual product, they’re just there for the ride and would be doing the same thing for any other business.
Should it be sales? Engineers? Security? All these categories have the same pluses and minuses going for them.
And now let’s say I start a small business. I go through the trouble of being good enough in my field to come up with a product or service that people will like. I invest my own money into this small business, and I sometimes don’t get paid so I can afford to pay my suppliers. I have months where I cut electricity at home so I can keep it on in the office. I fight the beaurocracy of the state, with its million forms I have to fill in and it’s million hoops I have to jump through. And this business takes off, and I finally make enough to have it be worth it. And you’re telling me I should share with the others? With everyone else who hasn’t put as much as me on the line, but now wants to be part of the success? Motherfucker I will cut you.
Or let’s say I don’t keep the company, I sell it. It goes to some conglomerate who keeps it functioning but installs a new CEO to cut costs and streamline processes. Are you telling me they paid me tens of millions of dollars just so that they can share with the workers? The workers, who paid nothing? Who offered nothing in exchange for the rights to the business? Fuck, I’m taking you to the parking lot and breaking your kneecaps with a baseball bat, where the fuck do you even get the balls?
Or let’s say I go public. I sell shares, and people buy them. A lot of people invest a lot of money into the company, and want to get their money back. You’re telling me that when I turn a profit and decide to share it, I shouldn’t give dividends and reward the shareholders who believed in me - instead I should reward the workers who’ve been getting paid all this time, who’ve been risk-free in this enterprise, who’ve been profiting whether I go up or go under? Eat shit and die.
There is no universe where workers, who are staking nothing in a company, should get rewarded over those who have a financial stake in it.
Cruxifux@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Tipping is bullshit. Restaurants should pay their workers properly. But I’m not gonna punish the server for that. She has zero control over that.
If I can’t afford to tip then I just don’t go to the restaurant. People would prefer to make up excuses for why they don’t wanna tip and how that doesn’t make them an asshole while taking huge huffs of their own farts. If you don’t like the tipping culture just go to a fast food restaurant or make your own food. Why is everybody such whiney bitches about everything?
ddplf@szmer.info 5 months ago
So you hate the tipping culture but also hate people who want it abolished. That’s just beyond stupid.
Cruxifux@feddit.nl 5 months ago
No, I hate the people who say they want it abolished and use that as an excuse to not pay their waiters. I made it plainly clear in my explanation, I honestly don’t know how to dumb it down for you anymore man.
RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Like not tipping is going to abolish anything. You walk in, pay the owner and leave the worker hanging. Why would the owner care?
It’s not like all the waiters can stay home waiting for something to change, people gotta live. Stop going to restaurants if you don’t want to tip
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I HATE EVERYONE
dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 5 months ago
Drag never tips while eating out.
Drag also lives in a country with a livable minimum wage and no tipping culture.
Cruxifux@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Well yeah, if you live in a country where they make a decent amount so that tipping isn’t necessary for them to be able to eat that day then of course you shouldn’t have to tip. That’s the way it should be everywhere. But in many countries like the US this isn’t the case, and tipping has been used as a way for restaurants to pay next to nothing to employ people and the servers are at the mercy of kindness from the people serving them. Lots of these people think that they should just be slaves that serve them for free and justify it by blaming the restaurant, which is just shifting responsibility and making weak excuses for being entitled and cheap.
Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Why do you assume the waiter is a she?
Cruxifux@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Oh dude just fuck off, gender is not important for the point.
RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 5 months ago
This place is just as toxic as reddit lol, it was a valid question.
TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 5 months ago
my guess is cuz the server in the Reservoir Dogs clip this is referencing is a she
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Can you just not tip? We live in a tipping society too, but tipping is just goodwill. Like if your waiter is really nice, and the whole thing was 115 dollars, you might give him 120 and he can keep the difference. Sometimes just a roundup, fromm 5.60 to 6 bucks or something. But it’s not expected.
Fuck_u_spez_@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Presumably, your country pays its servers a living wage so they don’t have to scrape by on tips. This has been the state of the US labor market in most non-fast food restaurants for decades:
A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage [$7.25 per hour]. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 5 months ago
If you don’t like the tipping culture just go to a fast food restaurant or make your own food.
You know in other countries there’s restaurants that specialize in different dishes. They make stuff that you might not know how to make. They make stuff in bulk that’s hard to make to-order. There’s a lot of reasons why you might eat out rather than make it yourself.
Tipping isn’t essential to this place. If you specialize in making pigs feet and you open a pig feet restaurant, you can charge people whatever you want them to pay for your pigs feet, and if they want it they pay it. But if you expect to hire waitstaff to do all the customer service, you better pay them a fair portion of what you’re charging customers. Giving them pennies and then telling customers “Oh just pay the help whatever you want, it’s extra” is just fucking evil. But instead of one shitty business model drying out, it became the norm in only your country.
Yet another case of a stupid american not understanding how the world works outside of america… no vision of how things could work otherwise. Just arrogance and contempt.
Cruxifux@feddit.nl 5 months ago
I don’t live in the US bro. But this post is obviously about tipping culture in the US. This is not an issue in other parts of the world where tipping is expected so that the servers aren’t getting starvation wages.
Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Customers are NOT punishing staff by refusing to tip.
Our school teachers all did a great job at getting us to blame other students when when one student did something bad and the teacher punished all of us for it. My teachers did this gaslighting bullshit many times when I was in school. And now a whole new generation of adults are perpetuating the cycle. But it’s wrong.
The restaurant owner is the one to blame for poor wages. The owner will say that the restaurant cannot afford to stay open otherwise. This is probably true. Many – if not most – restaurants in america cannot afford to exist unless they effectively steal wages from their workers. We either need legislation to fix this, or we need to let these restaurants die.
RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 5 months ago
He is the one to blame lol, we all agree.
When you go to the restaurant, pay the food (owner) but not the waiter, you are playing right into the owners game (who is to blame).
So congrats on supporting the assholes creating this economic problem (they can’t run a profitable business). Next youre going to tell me human traffickers are the assholes and people should just stopped getting trafficked and leave. Because power dynamics have nothing to do with this of course.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Fully agree with this but the problem is that restaurant owners pay their staff shit
Give proper wages to servers and the tipping can be history
OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
MA had a ballot initiative that would have gradually brought the minimum tipped wage in line with the state’s minimum wage over the next 5 years or something.
Restaurants posted signs at their door to vote NO and that 90 percent of tipped workers opposed the bill.
A bartender I know told me that I should vote no because if it passed then restaurants would have to reduce headcount and servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
So it seems like the restaurants just threatened people with losing their jobs and so they voted NO and convinced others to do the same.
The measure didn’t pass.
Dragonstaff@leminal.space 5 months ago
I waited tables for years. (I was good at it, and even helped train everyone at a new restaurant.) Hourly pay would have definitely lowered my wage, but it’s still better than tipping. It’d be cool to get hourly wage, or even commission, so that your pay isn’t based on people’s whims.
servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
(Note: I use the general “you” a lot. You’re just repeating what someone else said, I assume you don’t have any wait staff working for you personally.) You can fire people for being bad at their jobs. Why do you have bad staff working for you, tips or no? How about: Unattractive people will get paid just as well as traditionally attractive people. Minorities will get paid just as well as whites. Your salary doesn’t hinge on whether you can sneak extra stuff to your tables without your boss finding out or putting up with sexual harassment. Salary means that my paycheck comes from the restaurant and I don’t have to try to balance the interests of the people paying me against the restaurant.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Yeah all of that is what is known in the business as propaganda. The more money you have the more propaganda you can put out and restaurant businesses have a lot of spare money because they don’t pay their workers shit.
HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 5 months ago
servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
Black servers would be paid as well as white servers, servers whose chefs fucked up would be paid as well as lucky servers, mice would chase cats and the world would turn inside out!
HawlSera@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Reminds me of when I worked at Wal-Mart and everyone was horrified at the idea of getting raises because it meant prices would go up…
Mango@lemmy.world 5 months ago
No, it’s because their manager who manages the business(hypothetically) isn’t paying them.
VantaBrandon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I also don’t tip
Because I don’t go to restaurants with servers
I vote with my wallet that the whole concept is stupid, I hate paying 20% for someone to be fake nice and move food 10 feet
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
This is the way. By not tipping you’re just fucking over the server, not the business. To hurt the business’ bottom line you have to not go. Or dine and dash, but that then fucks the server harder while also affecting the business.
Agent641@lemmy.world 5 months ago
They should be replaced with automated mechanical food shuttles. I would tip those.
Stern@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Makes me glad I live in a state that got rid of the tipped minimun and just has one across the board minimum wage.
candybrie@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m so sad we voted against it. Legalizing magic mushrooms had more support than making tipped minimum wage the same as normal minimum wage.
Zacryon@feddit.org 5 months ago
I don’t tip as well. But I live in a civilised country where everyone get’s at least a tolerable minimum wage. No one is paying me extra money just for doing my job. So I won’t either. If they want more, they need to talk to their employer.
Would I live in the United States of Idiots though, where a severe lack of ethical economic behaviour is observable, I indeed would tip the waiters, as that’s sadly their financial lifeline.
11111one11111@lemmy.world 5 months ago
-Anon comes from cuntry half the size of average American state.
-Anon fails to realize the ezy button ruling a nation of 3rd cousins.
Knightfox@lemmy.one 5 months ago
I’d like to add that in the US people rarely think of it as extra either. In most places in the US we also don’t include taxes on the menu listed prices, but you know they will be on the final bill going in. The semantics of whether there should be tipping or not is hardly the line people should be arguing. What should be argued when discussing tipping is management abuses around tipping (like paying out others, stealing tips, or forced tip sharing), mandated minimum tipping, what items should be tipped and how much.
There is a ton of room to debate tipping culture in the US, but complaining about doing so isn’t the right place.
anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price. they system is designed to screw us over.
PuddleOfKittens@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price.
Nah, that’s just in America, because Americans are dumb. Tipping doesn’t exist here BTW, because it’s idiotic and why would we do that.
(if Americans aren’t dumb, why did they vote for Trump twice?)
(I finally found an upside to the Trump presidency!)
deaf_fish@lemm.ee 5 months ago
It pits the well being of the customer against the well being of the server. It’s a pretty evil system. Pay everyone a living wage. Everybody deserves to live.
gmanlikescheese@lemmy.world 5 months ago
To be fair, no products sold (that I’m aware of) include tax on the sticker price, and here in TX groceries (unprepared food) are not subject to state sales tax.
secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
Waiter deals with the general public. They deserve it
Manalith@midwest.social 5 months ago
I mean, they deserve to make a liveable wage regardless of whether someone tips.
shatteredsword@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I always leave a tip, but asking ME to pay more for someone ELSE’s rudeness is insane.
masterbaexunn@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I work with multi million dollar companies in an office. Companies are people.
Why no tip? I do job
mihor@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
boaratio@lemmy.world 5 months ago
They missed a step. "Waiter is paid below the already sad minimum wage because tips are somehow factored into their paycheck. "
Also don’t forget the folks working in the back of the house. Tip if you’re able, despite our shitty system.
ECB@feddit.org 5 months ago
Some parts of the US, not all
freddydunningkruger@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m sorry, but is “tipping out” no longer a thing, where the servers are expected to give a percentage of the tips to the hosts, bussers, food runners, kitchen staff, and anyone else who supported them that night?
alci@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Then, are tips included in the waiters taxable income, or is it more like extra money not contributing to the common thnijgs ? (genuine auestion)
Dasus@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I believe I’m a somewhat generous tipper.
I give might round a 21.50 up to 25. Euros that is. And I’m in Finland.
This is considered a generous tip, most don’t tip at all.
When I drove a taxi basically if I had a shift on Christmas eve, then I’d get tips. Otherwise it was like at most 3-5% of riders who gave tips. And this was back in oughts, when people actually used cash. (I literally never had someone tip me on a card when driving a taxi.)
LANIK2000@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Here in Europe, waiters actually get a living wage, and still we’re expected to tip??? Like yo fuck that! I never go to regular restaurants unless it’s with a work colleague that refuses to go to the canteen. Oh my sweet canteen, so cheap yet plentiful, satisfying my stomach, mind and wallet, a true blessing.
dariusj18@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Except the food cost is only a small part of what we are paying for at a restaurant. What we are paying for is the worker’s time and skills. We could, mostly, eat the same ingredients at home for much cheaper.
A lot of the other costs are small and make profit in scale.
FIST_FILLET@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
tipping should be illegal because it leads to underpaid workers. but until tipping becomes illegal, you are a fucking asshole if you don’t tip. you’re not sticking it to the man, you’re just shitting on a minimum wage worker because m-muh principles
hOrni@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Reminds me of that episode of Scrubs, where Dr Cox was going around with a tip jar, because if a guy pouring coffee gets a tip, he should get one from the people whose lives he saved.
WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Doesn’t get paid properly to deliver a service you’re relying on.
Tipping culture is stupid, but that doesn’t mean you get to fuck over workers by refusing the tips they rely on. If you want to fight that fight, take it up with the business or your legislator, ya cheap asshole.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
I’d rather eat a frozen pizza and drink beer in the basement for 1/6th the price.
Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Fuck anon.
theotherninjaturtle@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Ya’ll are all wrong. Tipping is to compensate the 2 dollars they make an hour. It’s a shitty system, but that’s the deal. If you don’t want to tip then don’t go eat at a restaurant that supports that system. It’s not some luxury add-on for excellent service (though it can be). It is purely to make up for the extremely low wages. Does anyone remember the rest of the dialog in this scene?
alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
I love that scene, you have a table of vicious killers and sociopaths, and even they’re disgusted at the idea of someone not tipping.
MehBlah@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I only tip when I think they deserve a tip. I tipped the last meal I ate out. Nice person who checked every few minutes if we needed anything else. They kept our drinks from getting empty. The service was worth the tip so they got it. That is what the tip is for. Good service, not any service.
MarshallBravestarr@lemmy.world 5 months ago
If you live in a place where food service workers are underpaid and you don’t tip, you’re an asshole. This is not a morally defensible stance unless there is a system to protect those workers already in place.
chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 5 months ago
If you find like paying for service don’t go out. This is the way that it is and these are likely the guests that then get on Yelp and complain…about service. You can adjust minimum wage all you want but professional waitstaff aren’t going to pander to the wealthy for minimum wage. Minimum wage service sucks as it should, you get what you pay for; minimum wage, minimum effort. If you don’t like the system, change it, don’t victimize your fellow workers. They accepted the job under this current system. I’m in that system and am working to change it but until then if you don’t tip due to your high moral standards YTA. And it’s not because USians are stoopid (we are), it’s just the ingrained culture. Under capitalism the guest will be paying this money regardless. Much like this fauxmockracy, your choice is an illusion…
Whorehoarder@lemmynsfw.com 5 months ago
Don’t have tipping here, thank fuck. I sometimes tip the nice sluts on the camsites though, even if they only get half.
lemminger@lemm.ee 5 months ago
never mess with the people who handle your food.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 5 months ago
walk it yourself then
Contentedness@lemmy.nz 5 months ago
Id be amazed if a single commenter in this whole thread has worked in hospitality in any capacity, let alone waiting tables.
Most of these comments make me wonder if the poster has ever even once had a good night out at a nice restaurant.
Disclaimer: I live in a country without a serious tipping culture. But still…
HawlSera@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Based
hellodcooper@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I’m not the employer, don’t complain if I see you doing the job you are paid for and am happy paying the price listed. tips are reserved for people who go beyond their job. people who screech about that need to cope
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Who’s the cheap one in this equation?
… the customer who is paying the owner of the restaurant for the food AND is obligated by social convention to pay extra to the waiter who is underpaid.
or
… the restaurant owner who doesn’t mind living in a world where we have normalized underpaying restaurant workers to the point where we pass down that responsibility to the customer who is already paying for the food.
Pay your workers a proper wage and get rid of the idea of tipping.
RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Don’t like tipping? Protest the policies by not going to restaurants, dont shove it on the workers who are stuck in the system.
The owner is 100% happy you came to pay him and not the waiter he didnt wanna pay anyway.
bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
How does this form of protest translate into a change of the tipping system?
VantaBrandon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Thats one way of looking at it… but if everyone would stop tipping, they would be forced to pay them a living wage or go out of business when all the staff quit. Its actually in the consumers power to effect that change, but only on a mass scale. Unfortunately its an awkward social coercion tactic at play now, which just continues to perpetuate the problem pitting us against each other just as capitalism intends to.
terminally_offline@infosec.pub 5 months ago
Fuck that, there’s federal mandated minimum wage if waiters don’t make enough through tips. You’re a misinformation spreading lunatic. Probably right wing too.
iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Honestly, in these debates more often than not I find that the waiters don’t want tipping culture changed either. A lot (not all, I understand) of waiters make bank on tips and then don’t accurately report them as income so it’s not even taxed correctly. They don’t want that to change.
abbadon420@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Tipping is fine, but as in “keep the change”, not “we need to change this tipping culture”
Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
The owner is evil, but anyone who doesn’t tip a waiter that earns too little to be able to afford to live is an asshole.
grue@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Here’s a tip: that waiter should unionize.
chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 5 months ago
As someone who works in the service industry, this is the argument that I see all the time. “We aren’t going to subsidize your wage because your owner is an asshole.” Weird, you have no problem being a patron of his establishment. Do you think that your refusal to tip somehow hurts him? Because it doesn’t. It only hurts the staff. My argument always has and always will be that we increase the cost of menu items by 18% and then split that additional 18% with the staff. However, that idea always falls flat with the owner because, “We’ll be the most expensive restaurant in town. No one will come here.” Which is a valid concern. And so, we are at an impasse. He can’t afford to pay me what I’m worth, and he can’t increase the cost of the menu or he’ll outprice his customers, and I can’t quit because it’s not better at any other restaurant. In the end, in any direction, the customer is going to pay more, either as a tip, or just for the cost of the food, or they’ll pay with worse service because the experienced staff can’t afford to work there anymore. Refusing to tip isn’t a protest, it’s just being cheap and making yourself feel better about it. If tipping went away, prices would have to increase, and either way, the buck stops with the consumer. Want to eat cheaper? Cook at home. I’m sure you’ll be just as good as any of your favorite restaurants with their specialized equipment and cooks with a decade of experience.
Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Sorry for the downvotes. Lemmy users can be remarkably shitty
DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 5 months ago
Why stop at waiters? I’ve had several jobs that didn’t pay a livable wage, only in restaurants did my customers feel obligated to tip me.
danc4498@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Here’s the equation. Restaurants keep food costs low by paying servers next to nothing. If they paid them what they deserve, the cost of your meal would increase.
So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA
If you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a restaurant that has servers.
Now, other places that actually pay a living wage and also have a tip button (ie concession stands at a sporting event) can get fucked.
ramble81@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Except that I’m fine if the cost of my meal increases if they paid their servers what they deserve.
SolarMonkey@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
Are you suggesting that food prices will go up by more than the cost of the tip tacked on?
Because if not it’s really just more honest pricing, and the same (or reduced) impact on customers, but without having to do math or having the option of being a leech.
Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Customers aren’t the assholes for the failures of the restaurant industry, just as customers aren’t the assholes for the refusal of the federal government to ensure restaurant workers are paid a living wage.
Customers who don’t tip are not the enemy.
ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com 5 months ago
Here’s another part of the equation, the owner gets enough of a share of the business profit where they can buy a new house, expand to multiple locations, buy new cars, etc.
The extra couple bucks an hour per employee is a tiny drop in the cost pool per business operational hour compared to that. They could perfectly well keep prices the same without paying sub-minimum wages by taking a smaller cut themselves.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
I have no problem with tipping, I have a problem with expected tipping.
Waiters should be paid properly and tips should not be expected or even mentioned. If I get exceptional service, I may want to leave a tip. There should be an optional tip section when paying the bill, but no separate screen or list of expected tips (or even percentage calculations) anywhere at all.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
And who is hurt by not tipping
The staff member who is likely significantly impoverished…
OR
The business owner who got the $12 he’s charging you for tendies?
The business owner doesn’t give two shits if you tip, they get paid either way and $7.25 an hour per employee is pocket change to them.