Damn straight!

Comments

• HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  My thing is I don’t want to be on top. I want to live in a society where I can be on the bottom and have a good life.

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  • dharmacurious@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I, too, wish I could be society’s bottom…

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    • HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      well I said can be at the bottom. Its polite to take turns.

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    • spirinolas@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t mind being society’s bottom as long as there’s a safe word.

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    • socsa@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      But do you want to main bottom, or off bottom? Like, are you an aggro build, or a damage build?

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  • mrodri89@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Same dude same. I wanna be a maillady who pets kitties and does fart walks daily to deliver mail. And afford the basics.

    Why is it too much to ask?!

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    • fartographer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      These kinds of walks are unfamiliar to me. Please tell me more.

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• Dojan@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m a software developer. My old roomie is a truck driver. I’m devastated he makes almost as much as I do.

  He has to drive a truck 5 days a week the entire year, no matter the weather. He deals with accidents, annoying customers, breakdowns, tight spaces, heavy goods. Workdays often drag out, and sometimes he didn’t manage to get home and had to sleep in the truck or at a motel. People are dependant on his work, if his truck doesn’t arrive, a store might not get food, and the attached community will suffer. He takes half an hour to commute to work.

  I work from home. I have a few set meetings daily, but I schedule my time on my own. Three times a week I take some extra time to go for a run through the forest with my dog. I’m safe, my bed is always nearby. My commute is the thirty seconds it takes to crawl into clothes and to my office. If I miss my work we at worst have to delay a product launch by a little.

  I’m happy with my pay, no doubt, and I wouldn’t want a pay cut. My friend deserves much more though. It’s bananas to me that he doesn’t catch up with me despite all the overtime and such. It’s incredibly unfair.

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  • GladiusB@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Driving is the easy part. Finding a bathroom at 4 am on Sunday. Taking a break without someone asking you a question. Just seeing your family with energy after a 12 hour day. That’s where trucking sucks.

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    • oppy1984@lemdro.id ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I was not CDL driving but I hauled New York Times from the print site on one side of Ohio to a distribution hub on the other side. I spent a lot of hours on the road 6 days a week. You aren’t kidding about trying to find a restroom at night and all the hassles from construction, other drivers, detours, ect. If it weren’t for highway rest areas and truck stops, there would be basically nothing for drivers at night.

      I always had an overnight bag with me, but thankfully never had to use it. Nothing but respect for drivers, the nation runs on their backs, we really should be taking better care of them.

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    • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’ve heard jr really takes a toll on your body over time. That’s true with so many jobs that are low-paid. It’s crazy to me watching people swing pick axes in the sun for shit wages.

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  • boonhet@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The truck driver’s job is much harder to do day in and day out. It’s also much more necessary. However, it’s also significantly easier to train a truck driver than it is to train developers and there’s no infinite upside potential for delivery like there is with software projects in some cases (unicorn startups) and there are so many other expenses to run a delivery company that a software company might not have that they need to run on pretty thin margins, otherwise we’re all paying more for all of our food.

    First job where I worked as a dev, they took on 3 of us on the same time, all entry-level. One of us was a physicist who was laid off by the university since the government reduced spending on academia. Absolutely an intelligent person. Didn’t last past the probationary period, he just didn’t get things naturally on his own, he needed a lot of guidance. Over the years I’ve seen that nearly half the people hired into entry-level roles don’t learn to become independent enough by the end of their probationary period to be retained after it. Sometimes it’s seniors too, they’ve worked at a place that just cranks out very similar solutions day in and day out (e.g only done frontend and only with one framework, or only a bunch of CRUD applications in one single tech stack) for like 7 or 8 years, that place has a downturn and then they apply for a job elsewhere and they just don’t adapt.

    Not everyone’s cut out to be a truck driver either, but once someone has learned to drive trucks, they can drive trucks for another company too. Whether your new employee starts pulling in profit on the first week or you need 4 months to determine if there’s a decent chance of them being a net benefit by the end of the first year has a lot of bearing on how badly you want to retain your existing talent.

    Anyway, in my country only the top talent at a couple of companies gets paid significantly more than truck drivers. A junior developer might make less than someone who just started driving a truck.

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  • Shanmugha@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Exactly my feelings. Software dev, get paid more than many people who actually keep others alive, healthy, educated and comfortable. This is not how things should be

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  • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Might want to edit your first line, where it really sounds like you resent him getting paid almost as much as you.

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    • podian@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Wooosh. It was intentional.

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    • Virtvirt588@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I understand what you mean, but it seems like this post is filled with people that are willing to engage rather than be judgemental. Like the other person said, it is a sign of a good writer - to engage with the readers.

      Of course, there are other cases within this site where people are jerks, but in this case you gotta understand that your own anger is spilling into situations where the only jerk is you.

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    • alternategait@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Honestly I thought it was a rhetorical device used cunningly.

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  • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m in software also and it very seriously bothers me that I earn about what any 10 of my kids’ teachers do.

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• halcyoncmdr@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  And the union would have more justification for negotiating a new even higher wage then they currently have.

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• lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If a bunch of burger flippers started making what I make I would demand a raise. If my raise was denied I’d go get a job as a burger flipper and probably be aot less stressed out than I am currently.

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  • Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If fast-food workers began earning wages comparable to electricians, I wouldn’t necessarily expect electricians to become poorer. I’d expect employers who depend on skilled labor to increase compensation to remain competitive. The question then becomes whether those higher labor costs come from reduced profits, increased prices, greater productivity, or some combination of all three.

    Anyway, it is better for all workers.

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    • lime@feddit.nu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      what you’d actually see is increased unemployment, because that’s the most effective regulator of salaries. the system requires a mass of people without jobs in order to balance itself.

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  • sobchak@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Fast food work is pretty stressful, IMO.

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    • lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It can be but it’s a different kind than what I’m dealing with though. It’s repetitive busy work and stupid scheduling bullshit vs. big projects that go on for months with deadlines and coordination between vendors and half a dozen internal teams where nobody wants to take ownership of anything. Fast food work never kept me up at night.

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  • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If the floor were higher for everyone, I wouldn’t see a problem with some jobs earning more necessarily. What you’re describing will probably always be with us: some work is just harder or less pleasant.

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    • lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes, to be clear I’m saying the floor being raised would be a benefit to me and others like me as well. Either I make more money or I can go to a less stressful job without losing income. Regardless of if it benefits me or not everyone should make a living wage for a full days work.

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• Sibshops@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s kind of sad that people are so motivated by jealousy. Like why would I care if other people have it better?

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  • toxicbubble@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    kids are indoctrinated from school to seek out “high skill” jobs and look down on anyone making less

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    • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I teach my kids to seek out high skill, high paying jobs and not look down on anyone. But even that is not a solution.

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  • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think jealousy gets a bad rap. It tells you what you want, and what you personally or society could work toward.

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    • iglou@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Jealousy and envy are not the same thing, although the nuance is subtle. What you’re talking about is closer to envy. You can be envious of something or someone without the hostility that turns it into jealousy.

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    • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Seeing what someone else has and taking that as information to them decide what you want is not jealousy. Jealousy is seeing what someone else has and hating them for it. It deserves a bad rap.

      You’re talking about ambition, or something else.

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    • drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Everyone loves Nietche but no one is actually living Nietche. Sure it’s a useful tool if you stop, analyze this emotion and built from it but how many people are actually capable of this in practice? Instead people just get captured by the emotion and never progress.

      I don’t think pop culture will ever view jealousy as a positive emotion until we collectively learn emotions.

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  • tibi@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I don’t think it is fair for a person dedicating years of life towards higher education and becoming a professional to earn the same as someone who doesn’t. Its not jealousy, its just unfair. If earnings are flat, what motivates someone from getting educated and growing as a person?

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    • Lyrl@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Lots of people get degrees in lower-earning fields because they value working on things that are interesting or meaningful to them more than they value the income tradeoff. Growing as a person is its own reward.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Crabs in a bucket

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    • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The crab will legit only escape and live if it gets enough other crabs under it to reach the rim of the bucket. I guess you’re saying people act like that even when they don’t need to?

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  • Rothe@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The US was build on the “fuck you I got mine” mentality.

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    • stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      If you consider the monarchies it came from, this was a big improvement. To even open up the possibility of someone “getting theirs” without any birthright to it was a revelation in its time. But now we’re ready for the next thing.

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• BeUnique@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Anybody that’s offended by burger flippers making as much as them should be pointing that anger in the right direction. Towards their employer.

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• JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  When the minimum wage was instituted, the intention was one full-time worker would be able to support the family of four suburban lifestyle. They’ve been gaslighting us for a long time.

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• libre_warrior@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No work is less valuable than others.

  all work is equal

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  • auzy1@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I show the same respect to any workers, but, some work is much less specialized.

    I wouldn’t say a vibe coder is as valuable as a software developer as an example

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    • SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Entertainers are valuable and skilled workers. They don’t want to have to advertise to make ends meet, that’s just how our economy is right now.

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    • kamen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I consider influencers as part of the advertisement industry.

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    • black0ut@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Well, vibe coding isn’t working. That’s just letting the machine think for you.

      However, even non specialized work is essential. Burger flippers, street cleaners, bus drivers, librarians… They may not have a career as long and specialized as a doctor’s, but they’re still essential people, and their work should be valued.

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  • craftrabbit@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think work that requires you to study and learn and experience for ages should be paid higher than work you can do without prior experience or know-how.

    But you know, reasonably higher. Like 3x at most.

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    • mcv@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t care much about pay differences, as long as everybody can afford to live comfortably and nobody can afford to buy politicians.

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    • lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is my stance. If you’re working full time you should get a living wage. If you’ve got more experience or have learned more specialized skills then you should get more on top of that baseline living wage. I think 3x is less than what I would set the cap as but when I say that I’m thinking of people with highly specific technical skills or medical professionals, not CEOs. 3x is a fine cap for them.

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  • ddplf@szmer.info ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Even Marx knew that’s just not true at all. And I’m not even talking about the usual ‘garbage collector vs doctor’ bullshit.

    I’m talking fastfood worker vs cafeteria worker, where one is reheating some chemical wastes to poison people for corporate gains; whereas the other is serving cheap and nutritious food for his local community.

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    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I think both of those examples are wild generalizations.

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  • HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    i mean i really believe that in general, but some people really do provide unique services. it’s hard to reconcile the two concepts especially because people are allowed their contradictions so whatever

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    • alternategait@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I think if you decouple capital and earning from skill this “more or less valuable” thing sorts itself out. If I’m hungry, I’d rather have a farmer and a chef around. If I sprain my ankle, I’d rather have a doctor and a PT around. My needs of the moment are not what I always need. My abilities at this moment, are not what my abilities always will be. for example, if I sprain my ankle, I probably can’t help the farmer bring in the cattle, but I could help the doctor by setting up the autoclave for surgical tools.

      I also feel like if my ability have a home and live in a community and not starve were separated from how my time is spent, I would get to choose both less specialized things and I would probably get to cycle through different things (and prevent burnout). I would adore a schedule that lets me do significant physical labor for 2-4 hours in the morning, child care 2 days a week, geriatric health care 2 days a week, barista another day or two, and creative endeavors the rest of the time. That’s not really a job that can or does exist these days and if I tried to cobble it together from part time work, lean staffing would never let it be regular enough to manage all of them without flaking out on someone.

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  • BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    all work is equal

    It isn’t.

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    • Mulligrubs@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It is. It’s TIME.

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    • PhoenixDog@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      What work isn’t equal to others?

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    • poopsmith@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You are not required to judge the value of work based on its output. While some types of work may produce output that is relatively more beneficial to society than is other work, a society can choose to believe that the value of the work lies in the effort rather than the output. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. This is the core tenet of Marxism. It’s entirely a matter of which paradigm you choose to accept. There is no right answer to this question, only reflections of what you value.

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  • ironycanal@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Hell yeah! Guard labor is real labor! FOP unions are real unions! Solidarity with the guys who tear gas you!

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    What about ICE?

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    • libre_warrior@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It was a comment of what society should be rather than what it is. Ofcourse there are toxic jobs in todays capitalist system. Work that cause over production, that helps oil companies, washes brands, makes us more dependent on cars or cause mass dehumanization.

      In an ideal society we dont have ICE officers. We dont have toxic work. We just have work depending on whats meeded.

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• Etterra@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If you want them to flip burgers for you, pay them what you’d want to make flipping burgers for them.

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  • Dozzi92@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    And I’ll even say, I don’t want to flip burgers. The thing I want to do most is my job, and other people can do other jobs. I feel like there’s always this fear, oh, who will do the skilled/educated jobs! Like, smart folks will not suddenly be like “Eh, I don’t want to be a doctor anymore because people can survive on flipping burgers.”

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    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I get it, I love my career, but burning out is a real problem in high skill labor as is. This is especially the case for medicine. But I think the bigger concern is people dropping out of the education. Engineering school was brutal, and there were points I considered dropping out, but stuck around because it offered a better life than anything I could hope for if I dropped out. Medical school is even worse for that. Trades are physically difficult, often dangerous, and require education.

      I don’t think even most people would drop their career in that scenario, but I do think we’d find ourselves in a position where there’s very little competition for jobs like these and a lot of competition for currently low wage jobs, though that would probably push more people into training for more stable employment.

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• MrSulu@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The ONLY risk of a minimum wage or Living Wage is that companies that highly skilled workers earning the same might move to less skilled jobs. For this, the only rational action is to pay your skilled workers accordingly. FAIR PAY is not difficult when an executive team earn millions or billions.

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  • BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Also, Tax Wealth, Not Work.

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  • Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    FAIR PAY is difficult when the exec team funnels the money to themselves. Funding of their raises/bonuses shouldn’t be at the expense of ours

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• neonix@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Solidarity!

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  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    rAmen, comrade! ✊🏼

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• big_slap@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  if they started making what I make, I’d see if they were hiring!!!

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  • cattywampas@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Honestly dude. If food service paid well and had good working conditions I’d love to be a cook over an office worker.

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• mrodri89@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  All us unemployed IT folks should infiltrate all the local jobs that are considered minimum wage and unionize them all.

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• SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m retired from a union IT job with a college. And now that I’ve got mine, I will go to the wall to help Gen Z and Alpha get theirs too.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    THIS is why the right is so afraid of union culture

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• MasterNerd@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The fact that they managed to convince the US that people working a fast food job don’t deserve a living wage while CEOS are making millions to billions is utterly insane.

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  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Image

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  • schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I remember all the conversations I’ve had that started with the other person saying, “Can you believe so-and-so gets paid $x million dollars for playing [sport]?!?” and ended quickly with me asking, “Can you believe the owner makes $X million dollars for doing NOTHING”?

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• reddit_sux@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If the rising floor makes things cramped, it is time to raise the roof not break the floor.

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• LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Yeah it’s weird when people by default assume you would resent anybody getting something you don’t have, or getting it with less effort than it took you - because they would resent this and they assume your mind must work the same way theirs does.

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• sirico@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Well I come from a long line of bucket crabs

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• sartalon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m an EE with utility clients. If a lineman/wireman started making the same as me, I would feel the same way.

  All the money is sucked out by equity holders.

  This economy makes me think of Hamilton’s “Dragon”, where everyone sank most of their paycheck back into the company to get a high enough “stake”, to even get a chance at a meaningful job, at said company.

  I’m not even sure when this good little Republican became radicalized. I’ve done pretty well for myself and yet I would happily watch it all burn down to the fucking ground if it meant everyone actually got a meaningful standard of living and healthcare.

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• BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  We all lift together.

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• stickyprimer@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  “To succeed is not enough - others just fail.”

  (Variously attributed to Gore Vidal and François de La Rochefoucauld)

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• hateisreality@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  My thought, if you don’t think someone preparing your food deserves to make a living wage to prepare your food, you shouldn’t get that food…

  I don’t care how simple a job is time is not free, we should all make a living wage

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• wpb@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Or from a more selfish perspective: an increase in burger flipping wages greatly increases your bargaining power in your own salary negotiations.

  “For that wage I could just as well be flipping burgers, and that comes with much lower risk of personal injury.”

  Never forget that solidarity benefits you personally, no matter how much the owning class and media try to pit us against each other. Also death to Israel.

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• slowmolaggins@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Civility is what is gained. I work for you, I drive up your net value and I promise not to firebomb your property. In return you give me enough money to survive. They’re not holding up their end of the bargain…

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• Mowcherie@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The health benefits and insurance can be sig ificant portion of pay. The min wage burger flippers likely dont get that, even with laws increasing min wage.

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• Pulsar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I don’t want more or less than what the fare share of the economy Boomers had back in 60’ and 70’.

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• BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  And I wouldn’t bother being power line engineer if I could just flip burgers for the same wage

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• deacon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I make waaaaaay too much money for the value I provide to society, especially compared to e.g. a teacher.

  It’s something I am struggling with so much right now. A huge part of me (like almost every fiber of my being) wants to walk away and dedicate my entire life to something more meaningful, but I have 4 other people counting on me right now. In truth, I could probably still provide for them, but I wrestle with forcing them to drastically reduce their standard of living just because I am ready to.

  It’s not like I’m rich or even comfortably wealthy. But in this society, in this economy, I am certainly uncomfortably wealthy.

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• Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’d you are not management you should be in a union no matter your job (yes that includes cops).

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• orbitz@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Rising tide, boats etc. More flippant than I mean, I really do wish we could figure out a more equal society, and I do well enough. If I did worse but more people could not worry, I’d be okay with that too. As long as it was a society wide thing not just working classs gets kneecapped while the rich get richer.

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