I’m sorry, but if a prospective employer is asking me to do seven rounds of interviews, I’m going to take that as a giant red flag that they a.) don’t respect me or my time and b.) are woefully incompetent at every other aspect of their business.
Gave him an offer, then took it away. Thanks PayPal.
Submitted 5 weeks ago by ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net to workreform@lemmy.world
https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/1f7381b9-c361-43c0-87d8-54d3e34ffacd.jpeg
Comments
jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
TachyonTele@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
I did the interviews once with a company. Never doing that again. It’s a complete waste of time.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
It needs to be illegal for employers to waste too much of our time.
This goes for interviews, commutes, and other situations where an employee is expected to give up their free time for free.
Thie idea that we owe parts of our lives and self that were never agreed upon when signing the contract needs to go away. The puritan work ethic needs to go away.
And we will need unions to accomplish this.
Damage@feddit.it 5 weeks ago
Best job I had so far gave me an offer after a single interview, worst one (current) took three, I recently quit after getting another single interview offer, I’m optimistic.
Stegget@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I jumped through hoops like that once. Six or seven interviews with everyone from HR to one of the company founders, had to submit a freaking essay, only to be low-balled by the salary at the end; I ended up declining the offer. Biggest waste of time.
rimu@piefed.social 5 weeks ago
The giant red flag is the name "PayPal".
fubarx@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
This was actually pretty normal for the last couple of tech jobs. Screening call with recruiter, phone screen with hiring manager, then a full-day on-site or zoom with 3-6 rounds. Sometimes, they would ask for a presentation about past work before the on-site. The number of rounds isn’t indicative of anything in big tech. Smaller companies do fewer and can’t afford to be as picky.
The problem is that after you’ve signed the offer and given your notice, you’re going on faith that the new company offer isn’t going to fall off. I’ve heard it happen a few times, usually when new company puts on a full hiring freeze.
It sucks, and the only way to mitigate it is to be talking to multiple companies when you decide to make a move.
philpo@feddit.org 5 weeks ago
Yeah. I have been in a poition doing the hiring for over 10 years now and so far never ever needed more than three contacts with a possible employee. (Beide administrative things, like finding a dafe for an interview,etc.)
First contact Is via phone(or mail or a combination of both)if I find anything in the application that leaves questions open or is inconsistent.
Second contact is the actual interview. Nowadays m company is so small that we can do them “with the team”, back in an earlier job that was not possible - so part three was either an long interview with the team or (preferably but not always possible) a day working with the team. (Whicu is of course payed at the same rate everyone gets)
But in my country we have to reimburse peoples travel costs and “trial tasks” during interviews would need to be payed as well.
codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
People have been falling for the lies of big tech companies for too long. We desperately need unions, and those unions need to push back on these kinds of ineffectual, time-wasting hiring processes.
Look at this asshole though. The image cuts off right when he’s starting into the mealy-mouthed hustle culture part of the linkedin post. Gotta show that you, special magical you, are the one developer who doesn’t mind the exploitation. You stay positive and give 110% to everything, even when they’re fucking you over.
There’s always a stupid as shit hustle bro willing to scab and do the work, they can vibe code through it I guess. If this god forsaken industry had any solidarity at all, then no tech company you’ve ever heard of would be able to hire a single person any more.
slazer2au@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Surely there are protections from this. If you have a signed employment contract and have given notice to your existing employer.
Oh, no wait. Working at Capitol One and an offer from PayPal so I guess they are in the US.
Photuris@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
Lol here in the US there are no such protections. You have to fend for yourself.
meco03211@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I don’t think there are explicit employer/employee federal regulations for that. There could be at the state level. However there are absolutely damages that occurred and a remedy can be pursued. It’s called promissory estoppel. A signed offer letter is a legally binding document. They don’t just get to wiggle out of that legally.
Damage@feddit.it 5 weeks ago
Here in Italy I’m used to signing a letter of intent describing the future contract conditions BEFORE resigning from the current job
BenLeMan@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Anything else would be communism since it would infringe on the company’s freedom to do with its human resources whatever the hell it pleases. Therefore, death cultists across the United States will adamantly oppose worker’s rights until their final breath.
LucidiaDiamond@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
What employment contract? Those are rare in the US.
meco03211@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Not sure if there’s specific nuance between an employment contract and an offer letter, but an offer letter is legally binding.
Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
Can’t say for certain because I’ve never used it, but I’ve heard of a concept called promissory estoppel that might apply in situations like this.
CHOPSTEEQ@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
That’s exactly what promissory estoppel is for. It’s a civil tort however, not criminal, so the vibes are very different.
DougHolland@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I don’t want to kick the original author while they’re down, but PayPal is a known shit company, and has been almost from the start. It’s closely related to the leopards-ate-my-face phenomenon — if you’re willing to work for a shit company, expect shit.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Not everybody has all the information to know whether a company is known for this kind of shit. I’ve heard a lot of stories about PayPal screwing over sellers in particular by freezing their funds for no justified reason, but I can see people falling for the “they must have been doing something bad they aren’t admitting” you always see in response to anyone complaining about some authority imposing arbitrary punishments on them.
My personal gripe with PayPal is, I was once relying on income from sales through them, and had withdrawn money to my bank that I needed to pay my rent. A customer filed a spurious dispute (later resolved in my favor) on a sale that was only a tiny portion of that, and their response was to immediately reverse the whole completed bank transfer. So I almost missed paying rent and had to scramble to figure it out.
Anyway, fuck PayPal, sympathy to all their victims.
frog_brawler@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Anyone applying to PayPal can google it before they accept an offer.
mriormro@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
This is a shit response that’s devoid of empathy and common decency. You’re literally blaming the victim.
You’re shit.
ArcticPrincess@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Oh dude, have you heard of this guy, Donald Trump? He’s a master of this move you’ve just pulled: literally don’t the thing you’re accusing others of. The irony is delicious.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 5 weeks ago
Yo. That’s pretty extreme!
That’s another human being just like yourself, posting their likely well-intentioned observations on a situation to a public discussion forum. They’re not being actively hostile to anybody. Please try to have a little grace.
If the idea presented is wrong, attack the idea, not the individual.
The internet is savage enough as it is and we can make it better.
I sincerely hope you have a good day. <3
snumbers@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
“I’m only working for Baby Bunny Blenders because they have a great reputation in the bunny blending space and they have a strong tech stack, not because I believe in blending baby animals. They are only testing the technology on baby koalas and pandas so far there’s no real world application.”
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
If you stick your hand in a bear trap…
DougHolland@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I ain’t arguing.
merc@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
I mean, the dude used to be at Binance. This isn’t someone making good decisions.
kadup@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Why do
LinkedIn users write their essays
In this format? Many other platforms
Have the same limitations for character count
Or even lack of rich text formatting
Yet people don’t write like this.
Where did this
Culture come from?
Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Most business people are too stupid to handle paragraphs with more than 2-3 sentences. I’m not joking and I literally have to write emails like this if I want them read.
Event_Horizon@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Side rant here. I’m working on a project for a new application, after a couple months work I finalised the 150ish requirements, however before approval could be given to approach businesses I had to fo some internal box ticking.
I organised this technical meeting with the IT guys to run through all the requirements, tick and flick that everything was fine. It was a 3 hour meeting that I had book 7 weeks in advance to ensure everyone could attend.
3 weeks before the scheduled date a general manager insists on attending and self-invites. The moment the meeting starts the GM immediately says “they don’t want to read all these requirements” and “don’t you have a presentation?” Followed by “where are the pictures?”.
The entire meeting basically derailed there and we only made it through maybe 50% of what we needed with zero ticking or flicking. That was 3 weeks ago, the project has almost stalled now and I’m still trying to recover the time/progress/momentum I had.
Fucking managers and their demands to be included and flat out refusal to read.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
Yep I have learned to write biz emails in short, pithy sentences, if I want people to actually read and assimilate the info.
I don’t think it’s stupidity (and nothing against stupid co-workers if they’re trying), but they’re just so grindset brained into mental exhaustion that they literally zone out in the middle of a paragraph.
I’ll catch myself doing it on occasion too. If anything it’s worse recently, because I’ll have the nagging thought did they actually write this or am I reading two sentences puffed out into half a page by llm…
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 5 weeks ago
I’m pretty sure…
You’re not gonna believe this but…
I think it all came from web marketing guru types.
And it circlejerked with business types to capitalize on shorter and shorter attention spans.
I was like you. I was a normal guy. And one day I decided to take a guess at why this irritating “writing style” came from…
…and you won’t believe what I came up with…I think it’s because…
People scroll, and short little paragraphs keep you reading.
In bite-sized little chunks. So you keep scrolling and scrolling waiting for it to get to the point…
…so what are you waiting for? Lame call to action by clicking the button below to get added to my email list with 900 days risk free…
…and one day you too can have a Lambo.
…Ugh that made me physically sick writing like that even as a joke LOL.
Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I guess it works too, I just read all that.
Railing5132@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Bravo. A masterpiece.
madcaesar@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Assholes thinking their garbage thoughts are poetry
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
Not too lazy to make it readable
orcrist@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
That’s the whole point of having a contract. You don’t quit your old job until you have a signed new contract for the new one. I understand that many Americans don’t believe in this basic concept, but it’s common in many countries around the world.
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
Unfortunately many employment agreements in the US are “at will” meaning either party can terminate it immediately at will. In states where this is legal (almost all of them), you’d be hard-pressed to find any company willing to do it any other way.
modeler@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
And the fun thing of ‘fired at will’ is that it is enshrined in so-called ‘Right to Work’ laws. The evil would be hilarious is it wasn’t so horrible.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
Right? What is this “Employment Contract” you speak of? I just got told “You start this day, good luck fucker.”
cyberblob@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
That must be the Land of the free. :D
Tja@programming.dev 5 weeks ago
Even a contract includes probation period where they can let you go without reason and sort notice. Even in a quite worker-friendly country like Germany it is usually 6 month period with 2 weeks notice (both sides).
Zagorath@aussie.zone 5 weeks ago
Absolutely true, but in this case they seem to be trying to wiggle out of even that minimal notice period. A promissory estoppel case would probably, if the plaintiff won, see damages in the form of payment equal to the salary that would have been earned in that minimum notice period.
Zenith@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
Is that different from signing the offer?
HawlSera@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
They usually don’t even give you anything to sign
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
My thoughts exactly… I’m not a lawyer, but I get the feeling that OP has a contract here and the company is trying to gaslight him into thinking that what they’re doing is totally above board.
But again, not a lawyer so what do I know
Psythik@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
This is why you don’t plan your life around a job. Plan your job around your life.
njm1314@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
That sounds like a very privileged mindset to me. Most of us don’t have the resources to have that luxury.
SupaTuba@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
I finally made it to a place in life where I’d rather be where I am and homeless than leave for some job
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
From my layman’s perspective it sounds like this should net him some compensation under promissory estoppel
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
That was the very first thing I thought of. For the unaware, promissory estoppel is when party A is damaged by party B promising something, then later rescinding it. It is something you can file a lawsuit over.
For instance, maybe someone says “I’ll buy you a brand new Maserati if you drive your current car off a bridge.” You know they can afford the car, and a reasonable person would believe this promise. So you shake on it, and proceed to dump your car over the side of the bridge. Then that person laughs and goes “yeah, I changed my mind. I’m not buying you a Maserati.” Now you have been damaged because of an action you took due to their promise. You can sue them, to force them to fulfill their side of the promise, or at least to make you whole again.
In the screenshot’s case, it sounds like he made some major financial investments in this job. He moved to a new location, turned down other job offers, etc… He could sue PayPal to force them to repay the costs that he incurred as a result of their rescinded job offer.
The only reason employers still do shit like this is because individuals either don’t realize that they can sue for it, or don’t realize that lawyers will take their case.
gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
I got unemployment in California in a very similar scenario, pretty sure they explicitly state something like this is a valid reason somewhere on that hellhole of a website
Idk about other places in this dumpster fire of a nation, but silicone valley is here, so maybe?
scytale@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
General advice before was to wait until you’ve signed the contract and have a start date before quitting your current job. Now you have to wait until you actually start the new job before you quit the old one?
PlantJam@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
And even if you do start the new job, most jobs have a probationary period around ninety days where they can just let you go for no reason at all.
jaschen@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
7 months ago I started a 6 month remote contract for chime.com.
At around 5 months, I asked my manager if she was going to extend me. She said no. Cool, whatever. Life of a contractor.
The product and engineer team rallied against ending my contract and my manager caved and extended my contract for another 6 months.
So a week into my new contract, they asked me to come into the office in San Francisco.
This is a difficult ask from me because I had to find a person to watch my son and my dogs. Drove my son an hour away to my sisters and paid a dog sitter 80/day to watch my dogs.
I land in San Francisco and my boss text me saying she has something important to tell me. I get into the office and a few hours later she cancels my contract because they want to have the person in my role local and to come into the SF office 4 days a week. This new position is also only paying 135k vs my 165k.
RedFrank24@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Would you not be able to sue the employer on the grounds of promissory estoppel? You bought a new house, you quit your old job, and incurred financial harm as a result of the job offer, and so by rescinding that offer (assuming the offer was unconditional), they have harmed you, and you have grounds to sue them.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
As an environmental regulator in America I know first hand how company owners tend to respect nothing but their own wealth and standing. I write and enforce administrative orders and penalties to company presidents and CEOs. They’ll throw the world under the bus before taking reaponsibility.
But during covid a lot of contracts and orders were digitally signed and not given wet signatures.
So a lot of American company owners are trying to pull back on everything covid. One of the angles is attempting to void all contracts not physically signed with a wet signature. Completely ignoring digital signing is a (new?) tactic being used.
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
The company doesn’t care about you. The company doesn’t care about you. The company doesn’t care about you.
Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
the last paragraph took this post from “that sucks” to solidly “yea this didn’t happen” territory It’s just more pro corporate slop meant to keep people on the platform instead of going out and looking for local jobs or going to actual websites to find open positions
Photuris@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
I feel for this guy.
But I’ve also learned a valuable lesson in my travels: never, ever quit an existing job until after you’ve started your new job.
Not just accepted the offer, but attended your orientation day and got your new badge in hand. Then give your resignation.
Yes, I’d love to give my coworkers more of my time for offboarding and project hand-off, but in this world you have to look after yourself first. It sucks, but it’s how it is.
Never give a two-week notice. When you do that, your current employer may give you a new offer, but if you accept it, your tenure will not be the same, since you’re now seen as a flight risk, and they’ll look for a way to dispense with you and replace you within a year, or two, max.
Imhotep@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Am I supposed to feel sad for a binance bro interviewing for mf paypal? I have more empathy for a rhino poacher.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
Peter Thiel is evil. Don’t work for him. Don’t use his products.
drmoose@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
> applies to join an evil company > is surprised when gets evil done on them
Joostringoot@feddit.nl 5 weeks ago
That’s why we need a democratic economy. Distribute the power over the means of production.
Clbull@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
He should lawyer up. If you’ve signed contracts, rented apartments and genuinely relocated for this, it should be an immediate lawsuit.
Jollyllama@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Never quit your job over an offer, I always run my time out at my old job.
Last job switch was last day on Friday, new day of first job on Monday.
SeboBear@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
Shocking to hear as I am Used to have binding consequences for such action in my country - feel u !
Zacryon@feddit.org 5 weeks ago
7 rounds of interviews, weeks of preparation
wtf, I wouldn’t even waste my time with such a useless process.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 5 weeks ago
Love how there is clearly a last line cropped out.
:: eye twitches::
qarbone@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
This is the shit I’m worried about when family members tell me I should expand and keep my mind open to moving somewhere to chase a job. I don’t have the resiliency to survive a failure like this.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
That is partially on you
Don’t trust companies, especially big companies.
You want me to move to a different city? Pay me.
You want me to quit my current job? I will right after I have signed an actual contract that guarantees I’ll have a job with you.
I will NOT risk my life for some billionaire CEO
uberdroog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
“I quited…” Maybe it was something elseM
iAvicenna@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
never ever assume you got the offer until both parties have signed a contract
farting_gorilla@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
“…ask if you have given every bit you have during the pursuit”
.
GTFO with that, no sympathy for them
nadram@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
That post turned into garbage in the last visible paragraph. In such a case he should sue the recruiting company, not post about “have i given it my best”. LinkedIn trash
TheBat@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Bro’s been brainwashed by hustle & grind culture. He’s not ready to accept he’s a victim.
DeathsEmbrace@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
Trying to convince the working class they’re victims is worthless because they all believe they will win a lottery ticket to make it all feel better.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 5 weeks ago
IANAL, but it certainly seems like he may have a case for promissory estoppel.
Brandonazz@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
sunnie@slrpnk.net 5 weeks ago
I also ANAL, but I did take a contract law class in college and this is a textbook case. If it actually happened. And depending on how the “offer” was worded.
AtariDump@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Reads more like LinkedinLunatics
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Maybe but are you really going to hire a lawyer to sue when you don’t have a job to pay the rent?
I know someone who went through a similar situation.
SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
If you’ve signed on an offer here, and it got rescinded, you’d have the easiest win in an employment lawsuit ever, maybe that doesn’t apply everywhere, but still seems worth a shot…
abff08f4813c@j4vcdedmiokf56h3ho4t62mlku.srv.us 5 weeks ago
My solution to this is that I accept the other job offer, and I don't quit until the night before I start my first day in the new one. As a result I've never spent a single day unemployed. If something I'm counting on doesn't come through I'm already at my backup plan.
If companies won't be loyal to us in this way, why do we owe any loyalty to them in return?
courval@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
He’s being held hostage by unemployment in 2025. Even though it seems like he’s caving it’s not a bad move. He exposed the situation and at the same time kept an optimistic stance for future opportunities.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Yeah… you can tell this guy ain’t a TNG fan.
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life."
What is happening here is techbro is now subject to a similar level of ‘trying to find a decent job related bullshit’ that the poors, the formerly middle class, and even the vast majority of other tech workers have been experiencing for… what, at least half a century, if not basically all of the history of capitalism?
His privelege has been nulled, and it affects him personally now, so now its a real problem.