Imagine how OP their colour perception would be if they did have that mental processing power
shrimp colour drama
Submitted 22 hours ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/9c7c1ac4-3a92-46e4-8273-0473ff746c90.jpeg
Comments
Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Wizzard@lemm.ee 3 hours ago
But compared with human eyesight, they could still see more ‘colors’ - As we see (almost) the same white in incandescent bulbs as LEDs and fluorescents, they might actually see the component colors and their intensities.
Not unlike how we may hear a combination tone when multiple other tones are played, and hear the difference (or sum) of them.
WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 1 hour ago
How would you suggest they do that. White light near equally activates our 3 cones because all spectrums of light are in it.
White light near equally activates all 12 shrimp cones because all spectrums of light are in it.
Which spectrum of color is left out of white light that wouldn’t light up a cone associated with it?
CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 50 minutes ago
6500k vs 5000k is noticeable for humans
Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I hate that it invalidates this episode of radiolab, which is, without a doubt, a masterpiece of podcasting:
i saved the video at the 13 minute mark where they do the audio representation of the vivid colors. still worth a watch/listen
taulover@sopuli.xyz 21 hours ago
The way mantis shrimp see is nonetheless super cool and interesting. They likely have no conception of 2D color at all, and can only sense the 12 different colors in general. Furthermore, only the midband of their eyes see color, when the eyes are moving and scanning for prey, they don’t see color at all, which probably helps offload mental load for their small brains. Once they do see something, they then stop moving their eyes to determine the color of what they’re looking at.
Also, mantis shrimp have 6 more photoreceptors in addition to the 12 colored ones, to detect polarized light. They likely see them the same way that they see color, so they probably don’t consider them anything different than wavelength which is what we interpret as color.
Ed Yong’s An Immense World has a section on this and I’d highly recommend it. The ways animals sense and perceive the world are often so different for ours and it’s so fascinating.
kayzeekayzee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 hours ago
For anyone wondering why they would need to see polarized light: I looked actually into this a few months ago!
Other animals that are trying to blend in with the environment often use countershading appear less conspicuous. The problem with this is that this method can’t replicate the polarization of the light behind them, making them stand out if you can see that sort of thing. ((Sunlight in the ocean is always polarized based on the direction of the sun (look up fresnel equations for s and p polarized light))). Even transparent creatures will interrupt the polarization in some way, so this is a very useful skill to have.
Natanael@infosec.pub 3 hours ago
More specifically, polarization changes with the angle of reflection of the surface towards the detector / eye / camera, so every bump in the surface gets a color gradient different from the surroundings when seen by a polarization sensitive eye
stray@pawb.social 20 hours ago
“Spiders can detect danger coming their way with an early-warning system called eyes.”
Really fantastic book. I did have some notes though. Firstly, if honeybees have such low dpi vision, how can they see each other dance? I assume it’s because they’re experiencing the dance some other way, but how? (Also it’s hella dark in there, isn’t it?)
He says many times that humanity’s umwelt is dominated by sight, but I very much disagree. To lose my hearing or sense of touch would make me feel quite blind, as I use them to perceive things outside my cone of vision constantly. Being in deep water is unnerving for this reason, because I can’t “see” what’s around me, and I have this whole new area below that I can’t hear either. So I have to wonder whether other people feel that way he does or whether my usage is more unique.
He really blew my mind when describing exafference and reafference because these things are reliant on a sense of self in the first place, which means that even the worm in his example must have some form of ego.
Khanzarate@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
You show that you are dominated by sight even as you say you aren’t.
Losing your hearing or touch would remove peripheral senses, yes, and certainly that would be unnerving, but think how much worse it would be to lose sight. Hearing wasn’t even a factor for you beyond your peripheral, because what you can see is so much clearer, so much more comprehensive, than what you can hear, that hearing is negligible where you have sight.
Hearing is a backup sense. Something you lean on when you don’t have sight, but its fidelity is poor enough in people that we rely nearly wholly on sight, when we can.
Losing that cone of vision impacts us far more than our hearing, although of course losing either is massively detrimental.
lvxferre@mander.xyz 10 hours ago
how can they see each other dance? I assume it’s because they’re experiencing the dance some other way, but how? (Also it’s hella dark in there, isn’t it?)
By touch. This 50s video shows it well.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 16 hours ago
How did they test if they could see color? Did they make little shrimp dioramas or something?
Donkter@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
They asked them politely
GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today 14 hours ago
The easiest way is to use the principles of conditioning. Pair a stimulus with a certain color light, then start flashing up different colored lights. If the organism is cued to the stimulus by multiple colors of lights, it means that they can’t really distinguish between them.
That’s how we tested when kids lose the ability to distinguish certain phonemes.
Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
it makes me happy when people understand science.
Wilco@lemm.ee 14 hours ago
They give them a miniature color blind print that has those numbers in them that are hidden if you are color blind.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 20 hours ago
I think this speaks to a significant misunderstanding that most people hold of the way vision actually works.
Most people imagine that vision is a relatively simple process by which our eyes detect and transmit to us the nature of the world. Not so.
Eyes are complex and interesting organs in their own right but fundamentally what they do is relatively simple. They are able to detect and report to the brain certain qualities of the light that hits them. Primarily these are: intensity, direction, and proximity to three points on the frequency spectrum (what we perceive as red, green, and blue). But this data alone is not vision. Vision is a conscious experience our brains create by interpreting and processing this data into the visual field before us—basically, a full scale 3D model of the world in front of us, including the blended information on reflection and emission that color entails.
Quite amazing! Most of this takes place in the human brain, and not the eyes. From this perspective, it is not terribly surprising that an organism with more complex eyes but a much simpler brain might have worse vision than we do.
GreenCavalier@lemmy.ca 15 hours ago
Ha! I read the following Science new article just today about how Purple Only Exists In Our Brains. It’s written for a younger audience (I think), but it lays out how our sight works, and how our brains trick us into seeing purple (a red-blue colour, as opposed to violet).
Poor shrimpos, no purple for them, I bet.
LanguageIsCool@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
It’s amazing and crazy to think, too, that the “theater” our brains create is an equilibrium point of laziness (to save energy) and usefulness (to help survival). So, surely, there are things we are just unable to see. But also, probably, there are different things that get mapped to the same things in the “theater.” I’m just speculating though but it makes sense.
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 19 hours ago
We don’t really detect direction of light exactly. Instead we detect the location in the eye where the light landed, and have lenses to focus the light onto our retina. That relationship does imply some of the directionality of the light I suppose.
Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca 18 hours ago
By the same logic, we don’t detect light, just the change in shape of certain proteins. The sky isn’t blue, it’s a subset of sunlight. We don’t really touch things, we transmit forces with tiny magnets. Computers don’t really do math, they just arrange states in certain ways.
mranachi@aussie.zone 16 hours ago
*we detect the direction of light by the location in the eye…ect.
There fixed it for you.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 18 hours ago
Yeah I was trying to avoid those details. I think it’s fair to summarize that as a system that detects the direction light is coming from.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 18 hours ago
Reminds me a little of CD digital audio. The original Red Book audio standard hasn’t really been improved upon because it’s uncompressed audio which covers basically all of the range of human hearing within the capabilities of any speaker we could build. It’s uncompressed because in the early 80’s when the tech hit the market, it was completely unfeasible to include the CPU and RAM needed to decompress audio in real time.
Shrimp has more color receptors because he doesn’t have enough neurons to run trichromacy, so he sees in EGA.
gabereal@sopuli.xyz 16 hours ago
Shrimp has more color receptors because he doesn’t have enough neurons to run trichromacy, so he sees in EGA.
love this. nice job :)
jballs@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 hours ago
Oh man.
12 year old me waiting for hours to rip mp3s from cds always wondered about this.
Like why isn’t it already compressed?
The answer is that storage was available but processing wasn’t. Amaze.
T156@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Mp3 is already compressed, as is the MP2 CDs use.
If it wasn’t conpressed, you’d be looking at CDs per track, instead of tracks per CD.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 18 hours ago
Is moral of your story that adults having frequency detection limited to 16khz, with older adults lower, might still be able to detect music well enough?
baatliwala@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I need to use wherewithal more in my daily life
ignotum@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Every lunar month, when there is a full moon, i try quitting caffeine
werewithdrawal
(I initially misread you comment)
ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 7 hours ago
I wish I had the wherewithal to use it more often.
Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 16 hours ago
The shrimp are holier than we are because they cannot see the devil’s color (it’s pink 🩷)
pzzzt@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
You mean light red?
Panamalt@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
That is clearly embarrassed white
electricyarn@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Horrible news
te_abstract_art@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Ruined my day tbh
Philharmonic3@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
My whole world is crumbling
BlushedPotatoPlayers@sopuli.xyz 12 hours ago
Disappointed. But didn’t the have receptors for differently polarized light? What about that?
Natanael@infosec.pub 3 hours ago
Polarization filters on retinal photoreceptor won’t make light wavelength (color) be perceived different, it just changes the conditions in which it’s detected. If those polarized cells would cover unique colors compared to the rest, it would kinda resemble the highlight effect in Mirror’s Edge, where something with a different angle than the surroundings stand out (sudden color gradient)
FooBarrington@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Color me appointed, at least we’re not missing out on fresh new colors!
Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Isn’t it amazing how birds reverse engineered airplanes?
GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today 13 hours ago
That’s silly thinking. Everyone knows birds aren’t real, so they’re just late-stage planes created by engineers forced to follow certain constraints.
MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 hours ago
Did a shit job if it too, got the wings all flapping around like a bunch of idiots.
Lemminary@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I want to see a bird swing around its break as a propeller.
TTH4P@lemm.ee 21 hours ago
This is really cool, but it’s also over a decade old info. I remember growing up in awe of Mantis shrimp and then, as with all wonder, this was removed from my life in adulthood. :)
brbposting@sh.itjust.works 18 hours ago
Thanks I was gonna check
Still one of today’s lucky 10K!
hikuro93@lemmy.ca 21 hours ago
I… must… be… strong… must… not… do… it… must… resist… the urge…
🎵 But I’m only human 🎶
spoiler
We got shrimp drama before GTA VI
wander1236@sh.itjust.works 19 hours ago
Shrimply*
MossyFeathers@pawb.social 21 hours ago
Yeah, but, imagine the possibilities in humans
Snowclone@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
They mean mantis shrimp… this non technical language bothers me so much…
Geetnerd@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
“In short, I am superior to any other species, race, or creed. And especially femoids, fuck them.”
PussSlayer666, CoD Clan Leader.
JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 hours ago
Shrimp photoreceptor situation is crazy
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Green and red do not come back yellow, it makes brown.
SlimeKnight@lemm.ee 15 hours ago
There is two types of color blending, tint and light.
Tint is what is usually taught, primaries are red, blue,yellow and we make the rest with them.
With light however, the primaries are Red, Blue and Green. Most image editing software use light blending, so you can zoom on a pixel and use a color picker to get its RGB value. And to make yellow with light blending, you combine red and green
Extra fun fact! Tint primaries are actually Magenta, Yellow, and Cyan.
Red + Blue = Magenta Red + Green = Yellow Green + Blue = Cyan
Magenta + Yellow = Red Magenta + Cyan = Blue Cyan + Yellow = Green
assertnull@programming.dev 15 hours ago
My apologies if I missed the /s but eyesight works in additive colors, not subtractive
mmddmm@lemm.ee 21 hours ago
Some hugely detailed and really certain knowledge from neurology…
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 20 hours ago
Makes me feel better about being a human. Our eyes are not deficient. Humans are superior!
Geodad@lemm.ee 2 hours ago
Technically, all the colors are fake. They’re just the halucinations of a brain trying to understand the input from sensory organs.
sfu@lemm.ee 41 minutes ago
No, colors are real. And you see them.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 28 minutes ago
Pink isn’t real. There is no wavelength of light that is pink.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 hour ago
That doesn’t make them fake, in the same way that x can mean 2. You are merely representing a given value in a useful way.
Geodad@lemm.ee 1 hour ago
I hadn’t thought about it that way.
voodooattack@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
But is my red the same as your red? Hmmm?