I was either 10 minutes early or 20 minutes late
A bus ride taking 40 minutes to go to work sucks
But the workplace was great so I don’t have much to complain about
Gen Z workers think showing up 10 minutes late to work is as good as being on time—but baby boomer bosses have zero tolerance for tardiness, research reveals
Submitted 1 day ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to workreform@lemmy.world
https://fortune.com/europe/article/gen-z-workers-10-minutes-late-tardy-boomers-zero-tolerance/
Comments
OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 1 hour ago
slingstone@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Is the work getting done? If so, what does ten minutes matter? Is it about productivity, or just about ensuring that work is sufficiently unpleasant to keep the peasants in their place?
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
What else is the overseer supposed to do to justify their position?
1ns1p1d@lemm.ee 5 hours ago
Its probably just what everyone’s used to. I work in an ED. Fuck anyone who always turns up late. What does 10 minutes matter? It matters a lot actually. This is shift work.
happydoors@lemm.ee 10 hours ago
Work and quality of life > filling time to satisfy timecards
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
I’m gen x. I’m always anxious about being on time because of how I was raised (thanks Mom). My partner is older than me and she’s ok with being late. This isn’t an age thing. It’s a personality thing.
They’re trying to divide us by sowing division amongst generations. The most wealthy are the enemy. They own everything and we must join together to take it back.
4grams@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I am fresh off a rather interesting conversation with my boomer boss. I’m a new manager and I’m working on policy and process. I was basically shut down, told to not bother documenting, that we have a way of doing things and he would spend every day with me for weeks to get it right if he had to.
I asked again, wouldn’t it be easier and more efficient to have these processes documented and accepted that force muscle memory? I even offered to document the process during our training sessions but was told that were a small company and no one will look at documentation if we create it (we’re a 2000 employee manufacturing company).
Oh well, I know how to work around obstinance.
deathbird@mander.xyz 10 hours ago
That’s crazy. Anyone who is against documentation should not have a job that requires literacy.
jj4211@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Think that’s a balance.
Work at a company where they have a documented process for everything. The thing is once some thing is in a document, it’s like some written in stone mandate that becomes unchangeable and inflexible. The stuff in the “oral tradition” remains flexible.
Every so often new bloid comes along, sees how dysfunctional the documented processes are, and proposes to fix the processes. Now in principle, they are right, but those of us who have been through a few iterations dread the outcome. Invariably the changes they propose to replace stupid existing processes are instead just added to existing processes, because some folks recognize the improvement but no one wants the blame for a mistake caused by leaving the old process behind. So each time we end up with more redundant stupid work.
So while in principle, documented processes are right, sometimes the political reality is stupid.
sudo42@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Both of you are right.
You meed to document processes. The minute you put them to paper they will be out of date. No one will read them. It has always been so.
MadBigote@lemmy.world 22 minutes ago
I just started at a new company that really invests time in documenting their processes, but the are poorly made by people that don’t understand the process itself and, in some cases, the process itself is poorly planned and has to be changed over and over again, to the point where the DTP looks nothing like what’s actually done…
I was instructed to review the documentation you twin myself, but advised the process did not actually describe the process itself…
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 5 hours ago
But it does allow you to go, “Ah here’s where the process went wrong, step 6 in the SOP. Why don’t you use it as a guide for the next one?” It then isn’t me vs them, it’s me helping them understand the documented process collaboratively.
4grams@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
That’s precisely what I’m after, and what I’m proposing. I don’t care about the outputs, I care about the process that gets them to us.
PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
Depending on industry certs, documenting things will make life easier.
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
The talking heads fit the ruling class really live pumping it articles to drive division between us…
haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com 1 day ago
Thanks for pointing that out. Its like we have multiple levels of control mechanisms ensuring our eternal enslavement.
YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
“it’s like”? Yes suspiciously like that. Almost exactly. Hmm.
state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 20 hours ago
I mean, this is from Fortune magazine. It’s owned by a billionaire. So it’s hardly surprising.
MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
It depends on the job. For most office jobs, I don’t think it matters that much if you show up a bit late to go to the bank or if you’re stuck in traffic, especially now that holding online meetings are easy.
But for a job where being late means holding up the work of hundreds of people, say, being an actor on set, then showing up ahead of time is very important.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 9 hours ago
When I got my first office job (after working retail and the like), I was uncomfortable when people would have a conversation and not be productive. It was burned into me that one should work at all times while “on the clock.” I learned the phrase, “time to lean is time to clean,” when working at a restaurant.
We really walk on people who work in service jobs. It’s not right.
SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Why did you have to bring Vin Diesel into this?
MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I mean, just because you’re on TV and get paid a lot of money doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply to you.
sumguyonline@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Well then the boomer bitches can pay enough for us to live 10-15 mins from work, not a 2 hr drive in rush hour. This close eyed brutal existence they are forcing on us is about to implode on them. The barbarians kicked over the oil, they dropped their torches into it, and they are currently sharpening sticks to roast the ruling class with. This is not a damn game. You stole our lives from us, now we want yours. (The actual life, not your quality of living)
bstix@feddit.dk 16 hours ago
What is actually needed is the flexibility to do it.
It really doesn’t matter for the task if I’m physically present between 8:15-16:15 instead of 8:00-16:00.
If I have to be at my desk at 8 sharp, I will hit the rush hour both ways, having to leave my home at least 20 minutes earlier and waste that time in congestion for no good reason. I’ll be home about the same time, because the only difference is how long I get to stare at the steering wheel.
I don’t care if the one option that saves me 1-2 hours of unpaid time every week is considered “tardy” by boomers. In my gen-x point of view, a lot of their lifestyle is wasteful for no other reason than selfmade “traditions”.
TheFrirish@jlai.lu 20 hours ago
Downvote if you will but it is just rude to show up late regardless of your performance or the situation. Period.
Rakonat@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Really depends on the job.
If you complete all assigned tasks on time and don’t inhibit anyone else’s schedule, then who gives a shit?
If it’s shift work and someone is waiting for you to arrive so they can start their work, or worse, end their shift and go home, then yeah it’s a huge dick move.
TheFrirish@jlai.lu 18 hours ago
I mean yes in practise and if you put it that way of course.
I’m just saying that as a general rule you should be on time.
queermunist@lemmy.ml 12 hours ago
Bosses deserve our rudeness.
Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 13 hours ago
Nah. Don’t be so uptight. The 4 emails that I received during off hours will still be there if the insane amount of construction they keep starting but not finishing in my city causes me to be 10 mins late that morning.
Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org 17 hours ago
Nah, ten minutes don’t matter.
dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 17 hours ago
I agree. We will be the first to call out employers who want you to arrive early to load up systems to be ready to take calls at start time. I see this as the same.
I want to get paid for the time I give, nothing more and nothing less.
Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 13 hours ago
I want to be paid for getting the job done, not for being a body in a seat for a specific number of hours regardless of how much work there is to do.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
That’s unambitious. I want to be paid for the value my work creates. Time is a finite resource. Trading it for (in all likelihood not enough) money so other people can get rich is a sucker move.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works 21 hours ago
Used to be a phone salesman. Got there at least 15 minutes late every day. It got so bad that one time I got there 15 minutes early and when my boss saw me arrive he shouted “Steve?! What time is it?!”. Nobody cared because I outsold everyone else for so much that I was making almost twice as much as anyone else, until the boss of my boss’ boss decided to start micromanaging the branch basically told me I would be fired unless I was on time. Boomers have weird priorities.
nthavoc@lemmy.today 20 hours ago
Their weird priorities is because they were raised with the dumbass idea that showing up early somehow increased production and is rewarding. Hell I showed up 15 minutes early everyday and the boomer was still pissed because he didn’t want to pay the overtime. Can’t even make up their minds!
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 12 hours ago
Meh. It’s all about power. Same reason tucking in your shirt and being clean shaven is a big thing for some boomer execs, it’s just some bullshit they can’t use to force people to conform
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 5 hours ago
yeah we have this whole thing about being logged on by 8.30 to start stand up at 8.37, so everyone logs on between 8 and 8.30 and then has breakfast or doomscrolls until the stand up starts. Which nobody listens to, because it’s poorly run, and then immediately after goes an makes another cup of coffee, bathroom run, and probably starts actual work around 9.30.
ICastFist@programming.dev 1 day ago
Maybe if the fucking workplace wasn’t so fucking far from home, or if public transportation was decent, people would be much less likely to arrive late at work.
The other thing is, as soon as you realize that your job could be remote, which is true for a lot of office stuff, being “on time” matters fuck all.
DeadWorldWalking@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Force employers to pay hourly wages for at home prep and commuting and they will suddenly start caring about hiring people in their area
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 12 hours ago
I’ve always thought not compensating for commutes was ridiculous. Ive demanded 15k raises for jobs because they wanted me to drive.
Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
All of the neighborhoods within walking or cycling distance of my workplace are literal crack dens where I’d be mugged and/or robbed within a week.
derf82@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I actually think I’m with the boomers on this one. You should strive to be on time. No need to make a federal case out of occasionally being a little late, but it’s wrong to be constantly late.
UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
If I need to be 100% on time, then I’m 100% leaving on time.
Every job I’ve had I’m one of if not the first to stay late. Need me to work a double even if it’s not my job next? Not a problem boss. But be cool with me being 5-10 minutes late. I’ll try to be there on time, but shit happens.
But if your gunna come at me for being a little late, I’ll be damned if I’m gunna stay late to help you. Pick your battles
derf82@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
I wasn’t arguing any different. By all means leave on time.
But this is part of why it is disrespectful. Look at nurses. If you are late, patients in a hospital can’t just go without care. So that means the prior shift is asked to stay later. That’s just one example.
grey_maniac@lemmy.ca 18 hours ago
Exactly. If you’re paying me from 8:00-5:00 I am starting at exactly 8:00. If my computer takes 5 minutes to boot, connect, etc., that starts happening at 8:00. If you want me online and responsive at 8:00, then you have to pay me for the boot time before 8:00. No pay, no work.
ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Worked retail and the end of shift crew always had to wait to leave at the same time with some bag check BS. Pile of shit thieving corporate and management would adjust the time to cut out payment of the last 5 or so minutes. The company is now defunct (taken out by vulture venture style capitalist owner entity after it was sold), otherwise it would have been nice to call the department of whatever deals with wage theft on them now that I know better. A.k.a.: if your company does time adjustments silently, consider this your signal and call the inspectors on them.
Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Depends on the job
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It really depends on what you do. If you’re in a factory and the entire line is held up or someone is staying extra time from a previous shift then it’s a big deal. If you’re late to the daily IT stand up meeting you can get the notes from Brad.
derf82@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Some jobs are more critical than others, sure, but it’s still disrespectful to make people constantly have to cover for you. Why does Brad constantly have to give you notes? What if both Brad and you are late?
bitchkat@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It really depends what you do. If you’re just strolling in to your desk and writing code, wgaf. But fuck anyone that schedules meetings for 8am.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
We always scheduled meetings 30 minutes after latest start time which was 9.
As long as you made it to the meeting and did your full hours, no one cared.
7toed@midwest.social 1 day ago
Im always 1 to 2 hours late, sometimes I dont even show up and have a body double go in for me, and I keep getting raises. Don’t worry I give the double a raise too
AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 20 hours ago
Why?
derf82@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Because others have to pick up your slack. Because others have to waste their time waiting around for you. Because it’s unfair to other staff that wind up working longer than you.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Because it often fucks over others who are either overworking themselves pulling your load or can’t take their own break or lunch because you are late
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 day ago
This really depends on what you’re doing.
If you’re in IT nobody should care. If you’re doing an artillery barrage then being late could mean a lot of your people die.
Highly dependent on what you do for work. But if Bob the Bookstore Manager wants me to treat a cashier job with the same respect as a military mission then he better be willing to issue me a rifle and a 400,000 dollar life insurance policy
GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Hang on Gen X once the boomer population dies out you’re next in the ongoing war to keep generations hating each other. You may get lucky and the future articles will skip over you and go directly to the “uptight, low tolerance Millennials”
These articles are such overgeneralized bullshit just to get people mad at each other. I bet there are older workers that are always late to work and I bet there are young workers that are on time and do amazing work.
whoisearth@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
I’m looking forward to it. GenX here, fuck all of you and fuck all of this. I just want to spend time with my family and friends.
I don’t think anyone outside of GenX understands how fucked GenX is. We are jaded AF You’re free to come for us but fuck around and find out.
Surp@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Lol as if fuck around and find out is exclusive to one generation.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Millennials aren’t doing hot either. As best as I can tell Gen Z has the best chance because they’ve adjusted to the new economic reality.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I mean…yeah?
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Nah man, we don’t want to fuck with you except as friends. After the boomers, we all cool.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I bet there are older workers that are always late to work
I’ve employed several, and in my experience they’re usually the ones who spend most of their time at the bottom of a bottle.
Stern@lemmy.world 1 day ago
As a millennial I’m on team, “Work starts at 9, show up at 9”… but if you’re a little late here and there, whatever. So long as the work gets done.
RangerJosie@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
The boomers are dying out. It’s a self solving problem.
Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Just common sense should be enough.
If your job doesn’t require you to be there on the dot, who care?
If you keep being late for meetings and you’re wasting your colleagues time, get your ass out of bed earlier.
It’s not hard. But it’s super annoying to be waiting for people who just don’t care to be on time.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
Baby Boomers, if were going to generalize, often feel the boss has ass-grabbing privileges with the attractive employees, so their opinion may not amount for much in the 21st century.
Except among the ruling class, of course, where we leave demented and senile representatives in power until it is wrested from their cold dead hands.
nesc@lemmy.cafe 1 day ago
10 minutes is on time. Unless you work with shifts, where other people need to wait for you.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Ten minutes late to a meeting? Go somewhere else and make someone else’s life harder. Ten minutes late to holding a chair down? I don’t care if you’re on the moon, just get your shit done.
No1@aussie.zone 1 day ago
“i don’t appreciate you being tardy”
“Say what? What did you just call me?”
phoneymouse@lemmy.world 1 day ago
A lot of these differences are regional and industry specific. I worked on the east coast in more traditional industries and 9am on the dot was expected. Moved west and switched to tech and I was the only one in the office at 9am. I had coworkers showing up at 11 and noon. Despite the late arrival, people would still leave at 3 and 4pm. Were they working any less hard? No, in tech people are online til midnight and 2 am regularly. Tech attracts a lot of folks with night owl chromosomes. Their brains are literally not functioning optimally until 7pm rolls around. Boomer work ethic doesn’t have a lot of understanding of this fact.
NABDad@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’m Gen X and the last job I had that required me to work a specific shift was in the kitchen of a pizza place in 1988.
In my first job after college, I asked the business administrator what hours I was expected to work, and she was noticeably confused by the question. She told me most folks show up around 9.l, but made it clear that it was up to me.
In my next job, I asked how to request PTO, and my boss told me he doesn’t care about the record keeping. He said just let him know when I won’t be there, and as long as everything keeps working he doesn’t care if I’m ever there.
Even in my current position when they introduced time clocks and we had to clock in before our start time, we were allowed to specify our start time. I chose 10:00am. I normally get in around 7am, so I figured if I’m not going to be in by 10, I’ll just take the day off.
anon_8675309@lemmy.world 1 day ago
If you need to be there at a specific time, be professional and be there. If other workers are depending on you to be there, be there. Being tardy just ‘cause, is pretty pathetic. In an ideal world, none of us would have to work. But we do, so show up.
stoly@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I manage Gen Z, Millenials, Gen X, and Boomers. Yes, all of the above. My experience is that the Gen Z types strive for quality of work and will give you their best once they understand the mission and accept it. The Gen X and Boomers very often get stuck int he performative parts of work: dress, dates and times, etc, and focus less on the quality of work. Millenials are a bit of a mix.
eskimofry@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Fuck what baby boomers think. Bunch of greedy and selfish cunts.
Luvs2Spuj@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Depends on the work and if people depend on you being on time. Applying one rule doesn’t really make sense, but neither does RTO or a lot of work culture.
HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Sounds like the Peter principle at work, ensuring that Parkinson’s law will be exemplified.
If your employees are living their lives to the clock, they’re counting down the seconds rather than ticking off their tasks.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 4 hours ago
Are we really trying to make this of all things a generational thing? Why?
It depends on the job, if you have to say open a store then 10 min late is a problem. You have to say make a thing, then 10 mins is not an issue as long as the thing is done.
I have seen people with no respect for other peoples time (so they where late often) and they where not of a single generation but more commonly of a class (the people with means tend to think they can be late).
slackassassin@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
I used to have to open a fishing pier at 5:30am. A line of angry fisher people at the gate will tighten you up real quick. I let everyone in for free if I was 10 minutes late, but I was more so motivated not to be late.
These were the people who were fishing as a source of food and/or bait for later fishing for food. I got to know them and wasn’t late often because that would be shitty. They got to know me and knew I was working 3 jobs and going to college. So, were understandinh when it did happen.
Life, man, turns out it ain’t all simplistic generational platitudes.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 4 hours ago
I am surprised how much this point is lost on the other commenters
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 4 hours ago
Its wild that people can think a whole ass batch of people (a generation) thinks being 10 min late to anything is not a bad thing. Like if you show up to meet someone and they are 10 min late, its not the end of the world but if it happens every time you are going to judge that person.
I don’t think jobs should be tied to timecards (I hate time keeping systems, I had to fix some) but to job requirements.
Some examples: Office work normally does not matter until it does. I once worked in a banks head office and had to at or shortly before 7:30am tell all the ABMs to change to the next business day (this would cause them to go offline briefly) and pull the reports for that day. If I was 10 min late the reports would not be there on time for 8am where they are needed for another task a co worker is expected to do before the bank opens (at 8am in some places).
Any retail store that has some respect for their employees and customers needs people to not be late, showing up 10 min late might just mean rushing to open or relieve some co-worker but that also is likely increasing the risk of accidents. I don’t think its fair that someone gets to work an extra 10 mins or wait to buy whatever for 10 mins just because some one thinks “eh, 10 mins is close enough”
Task based jobs on the other hand (say programming, maintenance, sales, repair centres, etc.) should not really matter as much. When you start is less important then if you meet a deadline when finished. I used to work a job that wanted me to “start” every day at 7:42 AM (we used time units of 1/10th an hour) but would get real pissy when I did not leave my house until 8:30 or so since the stuff I was working on was in places that did not open until 9 or 10 am. They told me I should go to an arbitrary location (a warehouse or McDonalds where the examples they gave) by 7:42am to log in “in order to show I was ready for work”. That was stupid and irrational, so I did not do it. But I would also not show up 10 min late if I could help it for any appointment (work or otherwise) since I value my time and the peoples time I am interacting with.
spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 hours ago
It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war active and right now a great way to do that is to make the older, capital owning generation, pissed off at the young ones so that they don’t think for a second this whole “widening wealth gap” thing might be unfair and oppressive.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 4 hours ago
I think the issue is they are not “keeping the class war active” but trying to make the class war into a generational one. I have worked with, for and had worked for me people who are often late and never did I see one age group of people show up more late then another. Hell I have had issues with staff showing up over an hour early and that was only people under 25 so far (not an issue with them doing it, just an issue with feeling I am taking advantage of them).
derpgon@programming.dev 4 hours ago
Dumb article trying to make laziness a feature (not a bug), and shit on boomers.
spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 hours ago
laziness is a feature, not a bug, and it’s literally how our brains are wired.
jerkface@lemmy.ca 4 hours ago
In the 80s and 90s, Gen X were coming in late and the Greatest Generation was firing their our asses. It’s generational because every generation becomes more concerned with punctuality.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 4 hours ago
Time clocks have been around since 1888 and people have been getting fired for being late even longer.
Stop trying to make this a generational thing.