Schrödingers murder: You are both a murder and not a murder. You are not a murderer as you did not choose to kill a person, but as this can not continue forever you are also a murderer since it is quite certain that eventually someone will choose murder.
2³² will get interesting...
Submitted 12 hours ago by NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org to [deleted]
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Comments
MTK@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
2^32^ is roughly four billion. We’ll need one or two more doublings to get every last person alive on the tracks.
This introduces a new wrinkle in the experiment: all the switch operators are also tied to the track. Somewhere.
Sibshops@lemmy.myserv.one 11 hours ago
Honestly I would. Like I wouldn’t hesitate to kill patient zero of a world ending disease.
Zwiebel@feddit.org 10 hours ago
But then it isn’t a world ending desease, you just killed somebody
ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip 7 hours ago
If you killed patient 0, then it wasn’t a world ending disease either.
Steve@startrek.website 9 hours ago
The use of a time machine is implied in these situations
blahblahblah@lemmy.zip 12 hours ago
Do you know any of the people involved?
NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org 12 hours ago
If you are number 32 the chance is 50/50
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 12 hours ago
How do you know blahblahblah only knows one person?
Valmond@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Maybe there is nobody tied up after the third split, nobody explicitly stated it continues!
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 hours ago
The trolley problem thought experiment does a whole lot of work to define personal responsibility. IRL it’s difficult to be the guy who does the evil thing for a good outcome, and easy to kick the can to the next guy, even while making it worse.
xxd@discuss.tchncs.de 7 hours ago
I think you should pull the lever, even if this ended after the entire human population was on the track and the experiment doesn’t go on infinitely. Hear me out:
When a person pulls the lever with a chance of 50% and in one case they kill 2 people and in the other case 0, the kind of average outcome is
0.5 * 2 + (1 - 0.5) * 0 = 1. Now let’s consider the last person in the chain of decision-makers. They would have 2^33 people on the tracks, or about the entire human population. To make the expected outcome be exactly one person, they’d have to pull the lever with likelihoodxso thatx * 2^33 + (1 - x) * 0 = 1which would lead tox = 1/2^33or aboutx≈0.0000000001. So only if the last person directs the train towards the people with less than this tiny chance, the expected outcome is smaller than 1. This chance is incredibly small, and far far smaller than I’d guess the actual percentage is. Think of the percentage of people that are psychopaths, or mass murderers, or maybe even just clumsy. If you evaluate the percentage as someone flipping that switch as anything above1/2^33, you should therefore flip the switch yourself. You can guarantee that the outcome is ‘only’ one death, whereas the average outcome of just the last person likely exceeds 1 by a huge amount.I really wanted to calculate the percentage so that the expected outcome is 1 even if every person in the chain flips the switch with that chance, but wolfram alphas character limit let me down :(
BananaOnionJuice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 hours ago
Sounds like what we have been doing with the environment.
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 9 hours ago
Everyone just doubles it and we’re good
Xenny@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
That’s kind of how it feels like living in the modern age to be honest. We’re just doubling it until somebody decides to pull the lever.
Lucky_777@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
You’ll eventually have to include alien life. What a great way to see if aliens exist!
This is also Thanos wet dream come true. Keep racking up the “pass”!
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
I wouldn’t. The likeliness of the next person choosing to kill even more people decreases fast with each iteration. And, I believe we can find 30 people who aren’t willing to become mass murderers pretty easily, even if they are selected randomly
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
Except for the fact it goes on infinitely, and somebody will eventually choose to kill
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
Except for the fact that nuh uh. Persons are finite
this@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
I would, because the second track potentially scales to infinity, and pulling the lever is the only sure way to minimize the death and suffering.
Also, if everyone avoids pulling the lever, you technically have an infinite amount of people who will die and an infinite amount of guilty consciences, also an infinite amount of people blaming the last guy for forcing the decision on them, like the most messed up version of the infinity hotel.
kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 hours ago
But once you get to round 33, everyone on earth is tied to the track, so there’s no one to pull the lever. That means that the trolley safely passes by, giving everyone ample time to free themselves. Eventually, the trolley stops due to friction with the track and air, plus brakes if it’s using them, and then we all stop getting tied to tracks.
ShouldIHaveFun@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
The trolley will probably stop before you reach infinity luckily
Sibbo@sopuli.xyz 12 hours ago
What happens if you are both to be killed and must flip the switch?
AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 10 hours ago
I woukd kill the poor guy without hesitation. I am not letting that shit get out of hand.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
How far down the line before you wouldn’t be able to pull the trigger? Everyone here assumes we’re at the start of the line, rather than just getting picked up midway through. Not sure where I’d be able to call that myself though…
Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
at some point you run of people to man the switch and prevent the trolley from hitting the people?
ChanchoManco@lemmy.zip 2 hours ago
I would set it up in a way that all the people is tied in the main track, so if there’s no one to flip the switch we all die.
pewpew@feddit.it 7 hours ago
Well… If I could double it forever eventually it will run out of people to run over
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 3 hours ago
We’ll have matrix-style human farms producing people for the tracks.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
Easy choice. Everyone could just leave right now and nobody would die. If someone actively decides to kill people, that’s not on anyone who chose not to themselves.
Sunschein@piefed.social 7 hours ago
A interesting twist would be that you’re held accountable for the death(s) when you pull the lever. Would you risk life in prison to stop the death toll from doubling?
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
It would sit well with my conscience that I likely prevented a worse fate for exponentially more people, and prevented another person from having to make a worse choice. Which they themselves would likely only make twice as worse, and so on. I could live with that.
What I’m not sure of is how I would handle being a deicision-maker N steps down the line. Being the first guy, sure. The 16th? I dunno.
marcos@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
With everybody tied up before the 34th track, who exactly is there to push the lever?
NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org 7 hours ago
- Winnie the Pooh.
- Alice
- Thanos
- The Dude
- Waldo
- Marry Poppins (believe me she ends it.)
ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
The real ethical question here is, is there only one round of trolleys?
Because if this is a one and done question, then obviously I go for the one person.
But if it’s possible at any point somebody comes along and has to run the experiment again after me, then if I leave an infinitely expanding number on one side, all it would take is one sadistic person to wipe out a incalculable amount of life.
In which case, I take the track with two people. And again, it is a question of repetition whether or not doing it once means that it won’t happen next time or if this will continue with every cycle.
thatradomguy@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Is this some kind of IPv6 joke that’s gone over my head?