Good grief! The word is excluded. Holy shit.
A hypothesis
Submitted 21 hours ago by ickplant@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5e0941c1-c238-483e-81c9-bf4d37cf0378.jpeg
Comments
wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 20 hours ago
The majority of people I know who have major computer problems solve them by buying another computer
python@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
I’m not even that tech illiterate, but I almost did that… My laptop was being slow, and I still had like 4k€ in overtime hours that I could buy Hardware from at work (it’s a great deal because I neither have to pay VAT on the hardware nor income taxes on the money from the overtime), so I was like, eh, might as well get a new laptop.
So then I read up on what laptop brands are out there, found out about Framework, and when I excitedly told my electrical engineer husband about it he was like “You knooow that you can easily replace parts in any laptop, right?”
Well, I didn’t know that (just kinda assumed laptops were more like phones than they are like desktop PCs), so I ended up just ordering a new SSD and new RAM for my laptop. It’s back to being butter smooth, but I have a hunch that cleaning the dust from the fans while I was in there was a very large factor in that haha
ImageDhs92@piefed.social 18 hours ago
I used to work at a locally run computer store, and one of the biggest upgrades for most people was going from a mechanical hard drive to an SSD. Made a night and day difference.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 18 hours ago
I see you used to have an HDD in there. That alone would’ve made it painfully slow in Windows especially, but even with Linux.
Now it should stay fast for longer.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
I mean, asterisk. Most laptops let you swap the storage and RAM and many let you swap the battery. Beyond that it usually gets difficult.
Framework let you swap everything, which is a major difference. But of course you pay for that privilege; modular design has its costs.
Still, good on you for getting a cheap upgrade. No need to throw away a perfectly good laptop if you can make it work fast again with a new SSD.
jlow@discuss.tchncs.de 5 hours ago
If you’re a half-decent person you doged a bullet there:
Stez827@sh.itjust.works 18 hours ago
Wow that’s an amazing amount of dust. I think that’s the most I have seen in a computer and my only source of laptop used to be old things from recycling centers
salacious_coaster@infosec.pub 20 hours ago
I’ve told those kind of people about how easily I could format/reinstall the OS, and they looked at me like some kind of lunatic witch doctor.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 20 hours ago
That’s why I will nab computers out of the trash if I see 'em. Most of them still have perfectly functional modern parts.
Spikyyn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 hour ago
Spikyyn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 hour ago
For some reason, Eternity shows this image until I clicked on the post lol
Broadfern@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
I think the issue is not having a desktop-type computer at all and having a tablet/phone that’s so locked down the kid isn’t given the opportunity to explore or troubleshoot.
Tinkering is how you learn to solve problems, which requires having something tinker-able without having to go down a hacky rabbithole.
Eq0@literature.cafe 18 hours ago
I know a bit about teaching about computers/programming to kids in the first years of high school. Their understanding of anything computer is abysmal. They have grown up with smartphones and maybe tablet, never were able to tinker with anything. Even just what internet is was confusing to them. It had to be reframed as “when can you watch youtube” for it to make sense…
Tower@lemmy.zip 17 hours ago
Anytime this topic comes up, I reshare this blog post. With things being “that bad” over a decade ago, I can’t imagine how much worse it’s gotten.
Valmond@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Like kids back in the 1980s ☺️ many couldn’t even read a floppy on the C64!
I wonder if they, I mean today’s kids, learn other things we miss out on.
NABDad@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Witnessed a radiology resident typing her password into a computer and for each uppercase letter she would press shift-lock, type the letter, then press shift-lock again.
I couldn’t figure it out until my mom pointed out she probably only ever used a phone or tablet.
Which is crazy, because I can’t imagine getting through high school, college, and medical school without ever working on a desktop computer.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 hours ago
I think the issue is not having a desktop-type computer at all and having a tablet/phone that’s so locked down the kid isn’t given the opportunity to explore or troubleshoot
True. That being said, I’m pretty sure that a Mac is roughly at the middle point between that and a Windows PC, with Linux users being way more tech savvy still.
In fact, the fact that so much exploration and troubleshooting is REQUIRED to make most if not all Linux distros do what you want is (along with game compatibility/availability) the main reason for many people who are sick of Windows to be hesitant to make the switch, myself included.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 14 hours ago
You don’t really need to tinker too much tbf, install distros like Bazzite and you have all done pratically
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 hours ago
Exactly.
A background of tinkering with stuff without fear of the consequences of breaking it (which is a common mindset mainly amongst kids and teens) is the difference between a tool-maker and a tool-user, IMHO, and thinkering is far more natural to start doing and to do much further with an open system than with a closed system.
tetris11@feddit.uk 12 hours ago
*Reads comments in thread*
I started with a pair of matchsticks and a trenchcoat that I got at Galipoli in WW1, using the Phosphorus I found in the Bosphorus to craft makeshift TI calculator based on specs I got via Fax from a Samurai. I ran slackware on my slacks until we defeated the Ottomans, but they unleashed their puppy linuxes on us, and we stood no chance.
hedge_lord@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I think that being forced to learn about WINE at a young age may have been beneficial actually (if extremely unpleasant)
Manmoth@lemmy.ml 5 hours ago
So unpleasant.
bremen15@feddit.org 7 hours ago
Das wirft natürlich eine sehr interessante wissenschaftliche Forschungsfrage auf, die ich mir erlaubt habe, in der wissenschaftlichen Literatur zu recherchieren:
“Does early exposure to different operating systems (macOS vs. Windows) correlate with differences in technological literacy and general problem-solving abilities among children and adolescents?”
The available research does not provide conclusive evidence that early exposure to different operating systems directly correlates with differences in technological literacy or problem-solving abilities among children and adolescents.
While studies reveal some interesting distinctions, the evidence is limited. Ronaldo Muyu et al., 2022 found Windows is more popular among university students (84.61% vs. 11.38% for macOS), suggesting potential usage differences. Shahid I. Ali et al., 2019 found no significant competency differences between Mac and Windows users in Excel skills. Cem Topcuoglu et al., 2024 noted that users’ perceptions of operating systems are often based on reputation rather than technical understanding.
Interestingly, Bijou Yang et al., 2003 found Mac users had significantly greater computer anxiety, which might indirectly impact technological literacy.
More targeted research is needed to definitively answer this question, particularly studies focusing on children and adolescents.
Dasus@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
I think early exposure to several different OS’s means you’re at least not too poor, and lack of money does correlate a lot with illiteracy of all sorts.
Cryan24@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
I started on a commodore 64, you kids that started on a machine with a gui were coddled.
FridaySteve@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Vic-20 here. What a time to be alive.
Botzo@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
TRS-80 then IBM PCjr here. Both hand-me-downs though.
Mom wouldn’t let me on the 386 until I could touch-type and write a program in BASIC. She was a Cobol and IBM RPG programmer.
h0rnman@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 hours ago
C64 gang, represent!
Seriously though, I feel like that generation of machines was the last time you could look at hardware and say “yeah, I understand literally everything about how this works” and that knowledge has made even some of my (tech sector) coworkers think I’m a wizard
Soapbox@lemmy.zip 10 hours ago
I can technically claim I started with a hand me down C64 from my grandmother in the early 90s. But I was like 6 years old, and I didn’t really get into computers until we got a Windows 95 machine a couple of years later. Though by 99-2000 I was regularly playing around with the C64 for the novelty of what felt like ancient tech.
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works 13 hours ago
I had a GUI - windows 3.11
But it was so slow. So I made my own gui/menu system that ran in dos. I was between 9-11 I reckon.
Not sure where that lands me on the spectrum of coddledness
andros_rex@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Apple ][e was my first. We also had an XP machine for internet (Neopets) but I didn’t have to fight for turns on the Apple.
GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 24 minutes ago
I had an Apple ][e I could use at school. It was preferable to the ][census for the same reason.
Dozzi92@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Yeah, it was just MSDOS. I saw “Abort, retry, fail” so many times, and I didn’t even know what it meant because I was four and I just wanted to play Family Feud with my brother.
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works 8 hours ago
Are you joking? C64 was the bomb back in the day! My Atari and Amiga mates were enjoying colors and music and games while I had sat there on my colourless, mute PC. All I had was Flight Simulator 2 in black and white. And DrBrush for drawing in Hercules “graphics” mode.
Fenrisulfir@lemmy.ca 9 hours ago
What about people who started on DOS?
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 9 hours ago
Or AmigaOS?
LillaApan@feddit.org 7 hours ago
Or Basic 2.0?
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 hours ago
They are either database administrators or completely oblivious to modern technology
Meron35@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Hot take: macOS, being Unix like, fosters more tech literacy than Windows.
It’s much better now with windows terminal and winget, but a decade or so ago even basic things like installing python and adding it to PATH were infinitely easier on Unix-like environments.
For those privileged to have programming classes, the first 2-3 sessions were the teachers going round doing tech support just to install python on shitty locked down Windows laptops.
Windows being terrible makes you learn a lot of stuff, but so much of it is untransferrable.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
I started with DOS. then windows. I didn’t use Linux until I was in my 20s, and not heavily use it until my 30s.
I just started using a Mac for work because it’s “Unix like”.
Mac’s are fucked up man. I don’t know how anyone gets shit done on them. the UX is developed like it’s for stroke victims with permanent brain damage.
I would rather use W11 than a Mac and a fucking loathe Microsoft and their horrible AI bullshit.
squaresinger@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
This. So freaking much this.
Mac is unix in the same way that Android is unix or my car’s infotainment system is Unix.
Yes, there’s unix under the hood, but there’s such a bunch of garbage on top that the unixity really doesn’t help much at all.
balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one 13 hours ago
The 1000 little interface stupidities is what gets me on Mac, like making “cut” part of the “paste” action. I’d get it if they had different terms (Ctrl+c=select, Ctrl+v =duplicate, Ctrl+optV=move) but they’re still called copy paste. Or the delete button on my keyboard being interpreted as page down. Or the enter key being used to rename a file. Or how every action just has to have an animation. It adds up to being just such a mess.
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works 13 hours ago
My trajectory was win 3.11, then macos 7 & 8, then windows 98… Windows 7 > macOS again as a dev > Linux when I finally got to pick my own software and IT wasn’t what paid the bills.
Windows was always broken so you had to learn to fix shit
Mac never did quite what you needed so you had to work around stuff and try harder
… Next/Mac got me very literate with Unix
… Linux is just kinda what I know.
But Unix based macos really is an excellent os. It’s just a shame its so locked to their hardware.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 7 hours ago
In a previous relationship I gave my partner a small tour of the terminal application preinstalled in her Macbook. She had no idea it was even a thing in her computer. The list of commands used was ls, cd, and on a whim I was surprized to find Emacs was preinstalled as well. Her parents saw literally everything I did and still told her I hacked her computer. 🙄
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 hours ago
A mac is the only non linux machine I’ll willingly use if I didn’t have the choice.
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 13 hours ago
I think this is pretty reasonable and shouldn’t be a hot take. IMO, what macOS does better is to provide a simple UI that protects less experienced users well enough from themselves while keeping developer tools accessible and close enough to standard Unix stuff. It’s easy to get into but not too hard to move past the basics once you need to. In Windows, I often feel like the opposite is true. The UI is a complicated mess of three different UIs that doesn’t even protect users all that well, and developer tools are often separate products with their own learning curve that are aggressively Windows-specific.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
There was a fairy large era of macs that were way more open to customization then windows. Probably still true because Microsoft has gotten a lot more aggressive about locking down their os and the average gamer has no clue how to install mods if it isn’t from the Steam workshop.
TASchwitters@lemmings.world 6 hours ago
Tech “literacy” is one thing. Let’s also compare productivity between users.
Sabata11792@ani.social 13 hours ago
I learned how to fix but never how a PC ran on windows. You just can’t really dig into theinnards and fixing it is 9/10 a reinstall.
balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one 14 hours ago
The command line is not the end all and be all of tech literacy. It’s one access point which doesn’t get used that much outside of copy-pasting sudo commands from the internet.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
Ummm how do kids turn out if you install Linux Mint on a cheap laptop and give it to them to screw around with? Asking for a friend.
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 9 hours ago
It leads the kid to Arch. I hope you prepared to always hear “I use Arch, btw.”
absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 8 hours ago
I’ll let you know in 10 years.
Devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 hours ago
BAAAABE, I WANT A KID.
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works 8 hours ago
My cousin became an IT tech. I set her up with Ubuntu on a cheap desktop when she was about 12.
Fedizen@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
First computer I used was DOS.
oppy1984@lemdro.id 5 hours ago
So I started with a DOS machine that my dad had at work, then my school got a few Apple Macs in the library so I played Oregon Trail on the green screen, them the first computer we had at home that I was able to spend hours on was windows 3.1.
einfach_orangensaft@sh.itjust.works 20 hours ago
the iphone was the beginning of the downfall
striping menue options down for usability and “natural gestures” like swiping caused a whole generation to be able to partake in internet discourse without having a basic understanding of how they got there
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 13 hours ago
used Solaris at 11 Plays factorio
Yeah I might be autistic.
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 hours ago
honestly i think part of the reason i’m a computer tinkerer now is my formative years were spent trying to run specific minecraft launchers, n64 emulators and other stuff on the family mac
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
what operating system was that atari with a keyboard you could plug 2800 carts into
CannedYeet@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
I started on a Mac from Apple’s bad days. The school computers were Windows and it felt like all the other kids had Windows computers at home. I think feeling like I was at the disadvantage probably had an effect on me that led me to Linux. Also the second family computer ran Windows ME, so…
impudentmortal@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
If you’re using Lemmy there’s a good chance you’ll be excluded from the study. Some of the largest Lemmy communities are Linux related.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 15 hours ago
I hate Apple with all my guts, but in all fairness:
problem-solving skills surely don’t correlate. Tech-illiteracy though…very likely does. By anectodal knowledge at least.
victorz@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
I started on Mac, then went to Windows, and now Linux. 🤷♂️ Work as a software engineer… Nothing to see here, folks.
imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 hours ago
At 7yo my family got our first home computer. I had no idea how to use it properly, so I was constantly bricking OS on it which lead my father to constantly call in his friend to fix our computer. I bet constant ass whooping made me quickly learn how to undo my own mess. At 10yo I could reinstall win98 though floppy with NC
BilSabab@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
I don’t get the hype for Apple stuff. Custom built desktops or frankenlaptops look way cooler and it is a lot of fun to finally figure out what kind of gear you need.
wildsir@lemmy.zip 4 hours ago
Me too! I distrohopped like hell back then, I remember bragging to my friends that I installed Arch (btw)
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 18 hours ago
I’d take macOS over Windows anyday if those were my only choices. It’s UNIX so a ton of Linux knowledge is transferrable.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
As always, this is a relatively tech-knowledgeable platform. 99% of people didn’t know shit about computers before or after the advent of the iphone, and even before that, building a PC wasn’t on the radar for most.
OTOH fixing issues with computers, PC users would know way more than a Apple user because PCs had way more issues. Not really a flex, but certainly relevant to the discussion.
LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
“discluded”
🤣
Korne127@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
I’m studying computer science and while most use Linux, there are definitely more macOS user than Windows… so yeah, I don’t really agree
Geodad@lemmy.world 45 minutes ago
Linux didn’t exist when I was 12. 😑