Those poor plants

Comments

• hellfire103@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “Know” is a stretch. Plants respond to attack by releasing chemicals (e.g. nettles and grasses), curling or retracting their leaves (e.g. acacia), or by changing their morphology (e.g. holly); but they have no nervous system - let alone a brain - so it’s not like you’re killing an animal.

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  • prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Plants having no nervous system is being challenged with the idea that the plant itself is its central nervous system.

    They react to stimulus, they emit sounds (different ones when in “pain”), and communicate with each other.

    They don’t have consciousness in a way we understand

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    • LordGimp@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s always funny to me how people eat up the concept of a distrubuted neural network in tech but scoff at the same idea applying to something like a tree or a fungus.

      Pando is the largest organism by mass, and the Humungous Fungus is the largest by area. The idea that those organisms don’t “think” in some way is laughable.

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    • hellfire103@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Huh, neat.

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    • theyoyomaster@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm3JodBR-vs

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    • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I dont mean this as a “dunk” but more of a how neat is that

      It’s truly shameful that disclaimers like these feel necessary in this age of shitting on everyone else online. Lemmy users suck too.

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  • Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    We don’t know how consciousness works enough to say they don’t. Having a brain and/or nervous system might not be necessary.

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    • strawberrysocial@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah, plants aren’t stationary. All plants move, just very, very slowly compared to animals. Looking at time lapse videos of vines growing, reaching out for something to grab on to and stuff is pretty neat. They kind of whip around in circles until they feel they’ve hit something worth grabbing onto.

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    • nifty@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      We don’t know how consciousness works enough to say they don’t. Having a brain and/or nervous system might not be necessary.

      Hmm sorry but no, there are traits exhibited by conscious entities which we don’t observe in those which lack consciousness. This is a nice explainer on consciousness, note that it’s not saying anything about needing a brain to exhibit those traits

      plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/#DesQueW…

      correct me if I am misremembering sth

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    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Wait that’s cool as hell, which plants?

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  • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They have the knowledge and are doing something about it. If other plants can send out this chemical by observing it themselves, that sounds like a reaction from a communication. It may not be cognition like we expect but it is behaving like cognition would. Hard to argue that plants don’t know or care of their friends start dying.

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    • kshade@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’d argue that knowledge is more than that, otherwise books or state machines could also be said to know things.

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    • hellfire103@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      [deleted]

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  • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    We can’t say that brains are required for a mind to exist; we have no way of knowing.

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  • 0x0@infosec.pub ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Isn’t that how we justified boiling Crayfish alive though?

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    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Some misguided monsters, yes.

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  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    by this logic do people even truly exist. Maybe you’re just the only real person in the world, maybe im the only real person in the world, we have no way of proving this.

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  • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Lobsters contain 15 nerve clusters called ganglia dispersed throughout their bodies, with a main ganglion located between their eyes. So, according to the logic here whyis it wrong to boil them alive if they don’t have a brain?

    For the record, imo it is wrong to boil lobster, crabs, and other crustaceans alive. There is no reason you can’t kill them directly before boiling them.

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  • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Are vegans fine with fish? Seafood?

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    • BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No, vegans aren’t eating fish or seafood.

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    • hellfire103@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Some of them eat oysters, or so I’m told. They lack a brain and centralised nervous system.

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• bruhduh@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Image

  Lemmyworld admins be like

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• superkret@feddit.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Carnivores eat animals that eat a lot more plants than humans could ever eat.

  That’s why I only eat baby animals. They only drink milk, which hurts no one.

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• KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  hey vegans, cool fact, plant based diets are vastly more efficient and effective at feeding people than meat based diets.

  Meat consumes plants to exist, most of that energy is lost. Not so much with plants.

  Just start telling people this shit lmao. Who cares about morality when you can pretend to be saving the environment instead.

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  • pyre@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m no vegan but that’s a common vegan talking point

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    • FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It is, but many vegans also do really unhelpful things that are closer to trying to berate or shame people into not eating meat and it is obviously not effective.

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      and it’s an interesting one too, if you like production stats at least.

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  • Soulcreator@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hey non-vegan, fun fact: No one really cares when you tell them eating plants are more efficient.

    Common responses include “bAc0Nnnnnn!” and “I’m gonna eat two times the amount of meat to make your efforts useless”.

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    • Soulg@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Amazing strawman at the end there.

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      hey non vegan vegan fun fact, you would be surprised at the sheer amount of consumption and productive the livestock sector of agriculture creates.

      Likewise you could easily just respond to the last line with “you can’t take away my gas stove, i’m just going to burn gas lamps in my home now” and get a little bit eepy and sleepy due to all the buildup of combustion products inside your home.

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  • theyoyomaster@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Cool, but steak is my favorite animal.

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      true, cows are my favorite food.

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  • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You think they don’t? And environmentalism is also morality.

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      environmentalism is morality sure, but doesn’t it seem silly to use an appeal to morality to push for more morality.

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  • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The animal industry feeds the plants as much as the plants feed the animals. I’m not sure how vegans feel about synthetic fertilizer like miracle grow, but that’s what will have to be used in place of manure if the meat industry goes away.

    Many of the organic crops grown use animal manure to fertilize the plants. I know you can use seaweed and other plants for compost(weeds are already composted back in via tilling, seaweed requires harvesting from the ocean or long distance shipping from farms), as well as cycling crops to prevent nutrient deficiency…

    BUT manure doesn’t just add nutrients. It adds beneficial bacteria that helps keep the soil healthy and make the nutrients bioavailable to plants. It conditions the soil for water retention, and helps break up clay soil and add organic matter to sandy soil.

    Will vegans keep animals just for manure? Or will organic lables on food be less important? Are we going to start scraping the forests for leaves to chop up an add to farm soil? That can’t be good for forests though. I guess I’m just confused about how to maintain large farms without access to large amounts of manure.

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    • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Veganic agriculture is already a thing, and it works fine.

      en.m.wikipedia.org/…/Vegan_organic_agriculture

      goveganic.net

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    • skibidi@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The ideal answer is compost, regenerative agriculture, and (better treated) human-sources waste.

      Organic crop yields will almost certainly reduce a bit without animal waste fertilizer, but that is fine since crop consumption will fall by a greater amount due to not needing to feed a bunch of extra animals.

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      an interesting idea, but anything that decays and “composts” can be used as a fertilizer so.

      This includes things like organic scraps, you don’t just have to use animal shit. Although it’s a pretty good one if you have access to it.

      I think personally, we should move to a more decentralized food production system, to help alleviate some of the costs of industrial agriculture, which are pretty heavy.

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    • Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      We humans shit as well

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    but much of the plant matter that animals eat is grazed or waste from some other agricultural product.

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    • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      TBF land clearance for grazing land is a catastrophic issue for the environment and going on in places like the Amazon rainforest.

      Some ecosystems are naturally evolved to supporting grazing species like the grasslands of North America which was once home to millions of Buffallo but that’s not true of most land currently used for grazing.

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      that can be true, but we also grow a substantial amount of feed for agriculture usage, even if it’s not local to us. A lot of alf alfa being grown is exported.

      It’s all dependent on whatevers cheapest at the end of the day. And regardless of this fact, a lot of energy is still lost in this process, cows are a significant contributor to climate change, ironically.

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• ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Let’s assume for a moment that somehow your salad was conscious. That’s an even bigger reason not to eat an animal that has to be fed on plants for a long time.

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  • krashmo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Or maybe its just a fundamental fact of life that something has to die in order for you to live and virtue signaling about the degree to which you participate in that death is a pointless exercise.

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    • FooBarrington@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Ah yes, the old “I accidentally stepped on a fly, might as well exterminate the whole biosphere” defense

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    • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This logic doesn’t make sense in any other context. Like, if I say we should try to reduce CO2 levels in the atmosphere, you could point out that emitting CO2 is a fundamental part of human life, so something something virtue signaling blah blah blah. Just because something is unavoidable to a certain degree doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to minimize it.

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    • ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Or maybe there’s happy middle where everyone can live comfortably while keeping the harm we cause at a minimum

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    • SketchySeaBeast@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      We as humans are blessed with the ability to choose how we interact with these “facts of life”.

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    unless the point is that consciousness is not a disqualifying trait to become foid

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    • rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It wasn’t for the donner party.

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  • x4740N@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Well a salad is made of cells that have responses to certain stimuli

    The brain if you where to go and simplify it down to its most very basic layer is just responses to stimili

    The brain is a collection of responses to stimuli that together create a kind of network that can respond to stimuli in complex ways

    Plants are a collection of cells that respond to stimuli

    So they very well will likely to be conscious on some level

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    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The above comment is made of glyphs arranged to convey meaning. The Code of Hammurabi is made of glyphs arranged to convey meaning.

      So the comment will very well be likely a significant contribution to human culture.

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• Chev@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Everybody needs to eat stuff. And if it is about reducing pain and having a better climate impact, you should plants all the way. A cow eats 50 times the amount of plants that it gives back in meat.

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  • MadBigote@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    But it tastes better

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    • chetradley@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’m afraid I’m going to need a better argument than “I support killing animals because it makes me feel good.”

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  • Donebrach@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The cow meat is already there, in the store. Individual choices do not affect the climate. It is disrespectful to not consume it.

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• Banichan@dormi.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Those poor cats. Vegans shouldn’t be allowed to own meat.

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  • Makeshift@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Dogs taste better anyways. Can’t beat a good Elwood’s steak!

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  • naught@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I am mostly vegan and my cat and dog eat mostly meat 🖕

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  • Asa@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Great idea, let’s stop re-homing rescue animals shall we?

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• Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “Plants rights activists” out in full force in this thread lol Image

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  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    it’s not that they want to reduce plant suffering. it’s that they don’t care if plants suffer.

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  • postmateDumbass@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Imo, the person in red looks much healthier.

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• zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There’s a type of person that thinks Joe Rogan is clever because they agree with him.

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• barsquid@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There’s no way this won’t restart the same argument with someone, huh? Top-tier shitpost, well done.

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  • theyoyomaster@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Thanks, I saw it come across my FB feed and knew what had to be done.

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• FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s why I only eat fungi. It’ll be reciprocal eventually.

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  • heydo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Fun fact, humans share more DNA with fungi than they do with plants. We share nearly 50% of our DNA with fungi.

    Plus mushrooms are the sex organs of the mycelium organism. Just an extra fun fact for free there.

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  • Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Similarly, I plan on double crossing the mafia so Thin Lips Johnny can chop me up and feed me to the pigs. Circle of life.

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• Leviathan@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Yo fuck that propagandist piece of shit Joe Rogan. Keep him off of my feed.

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  • Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m constantly dismayed to find that brain damaged ape, topping the podcast charts weekly. He’s such a disease

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• iAvicenna@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I mean if you stretch it enough even cells know they are being eaten

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  • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, that’s absolutely what keeps happening with these news items. “Lifeform demonstrates reaction to stimulus!”

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  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Is that the browning that goes on on the outside when baking some meat?

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• ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There was a Hungarian cult that convinced others that people can survive by eating light. There were some deaths and was quickly shut down, but they exist forever in anorexia-related jokes.

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• Nurgus@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Ew, Joe Rogan.

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• aniki@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Do y’all not eat vegetables too?

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• catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Joe Rogan 🤮

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• naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  lmfao this is hilarious

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• BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Finally we have one thing to pin on like 3 weird vegans.

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• DarkCloud@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s not how knowledge works.

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• Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Siding with alt right trash like Joe Roegan to own the libs vegans 😎

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• Harvey656@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Let’s go to the extremes here: let’s say I’m a vegan, and love snakes and want my snake to not eat live mouse, do you think I can feed the snake vegan snake food?

  This is all hypothetical as I dislike snakes and love bacon.

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• RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Everything that is, is alive.

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• MehBlah@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Rogan would know. He has sucking down his own air biscuits so long he thinks they taste great.

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• psme@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The Next Trillion Tiktok veed.io/…/7758453c-3386-406d-b540-a6967b2cd289?pa…

  Tell all your friends to go to psme now to register at $1.00 psme before it goes to $10,000

  psme.me/pages/contact

  Contacts www.psme.me psmeteem@gmail.com wa.me/+6590908088

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• feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL SHITPOSTING VOL. 68

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• Donebrach@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Man I was giggling about this a ton of times as it passed by due to the recent admin posting update about all that shit on the deranged vegan sub until just now I realized the comment was from Roge Jogan. Fuck that dumbass and everything he does.

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• psme@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The Next Trillion Tiktok veed.io/…/7758453c-3386-406d-b540-a6967b2cd289?pa…

  Tell all your friends to go to psme now to register at $1.00 psme before it goes to $10,000

  psme.me/pages/contact

  Contacts www.psme.me psmeteem@gmail.com wa.me/+6590908088 Image

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