naught
@naught@sh.itjust.works
- Comment on Snoop Dogg working on 'Planet of the Apes'–like movie, but with dogs 2 weeks ago:
Do you have proof of this? I cant really find any primary sources, particularly recent ones
- Comment on Tom Holland to Star in Christopher Nolan’s Latest Film 4 weeks ago:
It’s not the mixing! it is the consumer who is wrong!!
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
I am not remotely arguing against subsistence farming or hunting. Hell even hunting meat yourself that you consume. I wouldn’t do it willingly, but that doesn’t make it inherently immoral.
People are detached from the method of making their meat. It is far more unpleasant than most want to think about. The animals are mistreated. It’s hard to argue they aren’t. That’s really the point
I am underestimating no one. I do not remotely doubt humanity’s capacity for violence and depravity. I am saying that we as people can choose to minimize harm and violence (to each other, animals we farm, etc)
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
You are literally arguing the definition of the word “cruelty” rather than dealing with the substance. I appreciate the engagement, but this is where I’ll stop. I hope you consider the conflicts in your worldview and work toward improving the world for yourself and the beings that inhabit it.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
You do not need meat to survive
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Do you buy blood diamonds? Do you buy grass fed beef? Free range eggs? Do you buy fast fashion? You have agency over your choices. Just because you don’t slaughter the animals with your own hands doesn’t mean they are free from blood.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
To willingly inflict unnecessary suffering on sentient beings is cruelty. This is a semantic argument that ignores reality
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Farm less meat. Farm meat in a way that minimizes suffering.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
The systems by which we produce meat are intentional. Just because the people who set them up and benefit from them don’t care doesn’t mean these farms can exist outside morality.
Inflicting pain on an animal to save its life is directly related to your point. Raising animals in objectively painful and squalid conditions so they can be slaughtered is not at all the same.
You are equating saving the life of a human to the torture and slaughtering of an animals. They are not analogous
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
I am pointing out a dichotomy. I am appealing to your sense of logic. Why do you feel emotionally attached to dogs? Are they smarter than cows? Do they feel more or less? Is being cruel to a dog worse than being cruel to another animal?
By your logic, dog meat farms are fine – amoral. The cruelty does not matter because it’s inherent.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
So you are arguing that because a ruthless and uncaring system is responsible for creating massive suffering, it doesn’t matter? It’s awfully convenient that we don’t have to care about cruelty when it’s inherent in the system. People created these systems. We have the capacity to reduce the suffering. Why wouldn’t you want that?
If dogs were raised in these conditions, people would be outraged (see korea, china, puppy mills, etc.) It’s a bit hypocritical, don’t you think?
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Please show me that factory farming is overwhelmingly not cruel
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Animal agriculture is necessarily cruel. It is efficient. By your logic, this cruelty is negative. It sounds like we are very close to agreeing, frankly
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Would you kick a dog in the street? Shoot a cat with a bb gun? These are things that happen with frequency, but I wouldn’t do because I think that causing pain to another animal, senselessly, is a bad thing.
Would you raise a chicken in complete darkness for its whole life? Would you raise a cow in a suffocatingly small pen among its excrement? Impregnate a cow constantly and steal its babies away for meat so you can continue to milk it until it dies? Animals feel pain. They communicate, they suffer, they mourn.
If you can supply an argument that causing suffering of innocent animals is good/doesn’t matter, I’m all ears.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
This seems to reinforce my point. Surely 75% of production is not simply wastage otherwise. This is even ignoring the fact that I provided a source showing that deforestation by soy is far less problematic than it used to be.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Can you supply a source for this please?
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
We have agency over our actions and the ability to reduce the negative impacts we have on the world. We are unique in this ability, and we should exercise it
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
You can’t appreciate a philosophical argument on a philosophical issue? I suppose that can be valid. It seems to me you don’t want to consider the ideas I have raised in good faith
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
It’s simple economics. Less demand, less supply.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Can you supply a convincing argument for suffering? We are fully capable of living with much, much less meat production. Why should we continue to inflict pain on things which can experience it? It seems manifest to me
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
This was the case, and is certainly problematic. Take it a step further – who or what is consuming that soy? Animal agriculture, by and large. Therefore this is an argument for veganism, or at least reducing consumption.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
I like to give people questions to ponder and explore. I think my arguments are very clear from the questions I have raised. Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing. Particularly the egregious conditions in which we raise our “meat”. This isn’t even considering the horrible conditions that humans suffer working in and around the meat industry.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
This is a strawman. No one is arguing buying beans fixes deforestation. However, if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry. If legume farming was destroying the rainforest, I’d have a problem with that too
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Do you think that animals have consciousness? Do they feel pain, fear? Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being? What about 1,000,000 of those beings? Would you butcher a toddler for meat? What about an animal with similar (or more) depth of emotion and cognition than that? Is it okay because they are other species? What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture? What about the impact on climate change? I think there are many valid moral arguments that you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave. I hope you give it some more thought
- Comment on Those poor plants 2 months ago:
Sure, but the average person does not know or care about the distinction. It’s much easier to explain this way. I’ll see if I can incorporate this terminology instead next time though
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Abusive? 😂 I accept your apology.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
What’s more apt? Demand? I literally never see a “militant” vegan emerge anywhere unless in a thread like this which demonizes a (diverse) group of people for giving a shit about animals and this planet. I think that most people who give thought to this problem will eventually realize that they aren’t primal hunters capable of taking the life of animals, let alone a new animal or more every day.
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
Are you othering me?
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
You might feel othered because you are different, but I for one wish all animals feel nothing but acceptance and peace (including you)
- Comment on Maybe this is better for everyone 2 months ago:
I may be wrong, but I think that veganism is about not exploiting/eating sentient creatures