I mean, leaving .world is a pretty fair response. That community is full of insufferable idiots, but an admin overrode their moderating decisions, and then the admin team made up rules to retroactively justify their decision. That’s pretty egregious.
Maybe this is better for everyone
Submitted 3 months ago by Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e93711a8-b1a7-4ef2-8334-88aa52a099da.jpeg
Comments
pjwestin@lemmy.world 3 months ago
can@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I’m no fan of Lemmy.world but I’m even less of a fan of dead cats.
pjwestin@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Yeah, to be clear, you should not feed your cat a Vegan diet. Cats are obligate carnivores. Synthetic Taurine has made vegan catfood somewhat more viable, but cats don’t just need Taurine from prey. They need several vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids from animal protein to survive. Beyond that, their digestive tract isn’t very efficient at digesting plant matter, so even if these foods have the nutritional value they need, they might not be absorbing it. Also, a lot of these products seem to be made from grains and other carb heavy products, and cats need a very low carb, high protein diet. If you want to completely divest from the meat industry, you simply shouldn’t own a cat.
That being said, Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies. You can claim that they’re unsafe (I certainly do), but having an admin nuke a comment section for claiming otherwise is a huge overreaction. It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking; it probably isn’t, but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that.
Finally, I’m also not a fan of dead cats, but if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway.
WarlockLawyer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
What if we raise them in a factory farm and eat them instead? Don’t worry though. We will force feed them a carnivore diet in their tiny cages
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
If thats true then everyone should probably start leaving .world. If they cant even behave themselves with something as simple as veganism, then you cant teust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.
pjwestin@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Maybe, but this seems like a problem that’s bigger than a single instance. A few months back someone came with some pretty good receipts showing .ml admins going after people for having some very fair and moderate criticisms of China. Seems like most instances either have power tripping mods or are too small to have much activity.
alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.
I mean they “preemptively defederated hexbear as a last resort” for fear they might discuss politics, so that ship has sailed.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 3 months ago
- Adding animal abuse to their TOS was a good move. I’m surprised it wasn’t already there.
- Encouraging people to feed a cat a vegan diet is a call to abuse a cat through deliberate malnourishment.
- Mods on c/vegan were directly calling for animal abuse, and censoring anyone countering them.
I stand with the admins on this. Zero sympathy for animal abusers.
pjwestin@lemmy.world 3 months ago
- Agreed, except when it’s being done to retroactively justify your actions.
- I think it’s a very bad idea to feed a cat a Vegan diet, but there are vegan products being sold on the market, and if you want to feed your cat one of these products, you should discuss them with a vet or other qualified professional. Regular dry food contains way more carbohydrates than cats are meant to have in their diet, which can lead to obesity and diabetes in cats. Are people who feed their cats dry food animal abusers? Should the Lemmy admins start policing the use of dry food?
- The mods of c/vegan were trying to assert their ability to moderate their own sub as they saw fit in the face of a massive overreach from the admin. I think they’re the most insufferable community I’ve seen on this instance, but they should have the right to moderate their own community.
And yes, I’m on .world, but very little of my identity is tired up in my lemmy instance, and I’m certainly not going to bat for the .world admins when they do something crazy.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Isn’t this something that the fediverse was explicitly designed to support?
We’re making fun of them for making use of one of the foundational features of the platform?If they don’t like it there, they can move again. And again. Or host their own instance.
Idk what this creepy vicarious butthurt is about, or why it has become so popular.
WarlockLawyer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Circle jerking against vegans is a pasttime of the Internet denizens
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Yeah, but it’s a pretty pathetic passtime. At least find a good reason, rather than doing literally the thing you want them to do.
Like, insulting them for leaving is just as bad as them crying that their toxic behavior scares people away. It makes no sense.
abbadon420@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Like a family camping trip, classic fun. Pitch a tent, start a fire, roast some vegans and sing kumbaya
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Some people are not mature enough to handle the vegan perspective.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Yes, this is a feature of the fediverse, and we’re celebrating it here.
When shitty toxic communities create issues for the wider Lemmyverse, instance admins can lay down some ultimatums.
On the toxic community’s instance, the instance’s admins can demand that the toxic community correct their behavior, or the community and its offending users will get banned.
On other instances, offending communities can be blocked, and if users are regularly misbehaving, instance admins can pressure each other to enforce basic community conduct, or face defederation.
Once a community is given an ultimatum, they can either change their behavior to meet the expectations of the wider Lemmyverse, or they can find an instance that will allow their behavior.
If they choose to migrate to another instance, it will likely be a more extremist instance with poor moderation that has been significantly defederated. They have to exist within that narrow network of fringe instances now, giving them significantly less reach to harass or spread disinfo or whatever got them booted from the last place they called home.
And us users play a central role here. When we see communities doing harm, whether they are endorsing fascism, or pedophilia, or animal abuse, we need to stay “not here you don’t” and demand that action be taken.
When those communities end up migrating to some fringe instance full of dipshits, we need to applaud the mods and admins that sent them there, and let them know that their hard work was appreciated.
Federation works. Every fringe community in exile is proof of that. This is all one big community effort, so we can’t stay silent about what’s happening and expect that it all gets taken care of behind the scenes.
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Nah, eating and using animals is the extremist way of doing things.
Corgana@startrek.website 3 months ago
If they choose to migrate to another instance, it will likely be a more extremist instance with poor moderation that has been significantly defederated.
In theory this is how it should work, but in practice the toxic people tend to move to general purpose more laissez-faire places like .world or .ml, which makes de-federating and cutting off 30% of all users a difficult decision for anyone trying to have a community.
The answer is less centralization, but that can’t be forced. beehaw.org (for example) made the decision to cut off .world and they are better for it. But they are a large-ish instance in their own right.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
One study estimated 1% of cat owners feed their cat a vegan diet. Why do you think that might be? Are they all extremist animal abusers? Or is it possible you had an assumption that turned out to be wrong and now don’t know how to reconcile?
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Sure you can ally yourself with the CCP and that might be totally legal (if they collect any personal data and send it overseas to China then that would be breaking the law but it’s unlikely) but that doesn’t mean it isn’t frowned upon.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
That’s a stretch, but even assuming it’s true, why do you care enough about their community to frown upon it?
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
It’s just disguised metadrama. They joined the instances this instance doesn’t like.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
And so they’re moving, and somehow y’all are… Upset about it??? Make it make sense
HRDS_654@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Yes and no. The theory is that each instance is supposed to be more specialized, kind of like the old BBS that used to be rampant on the internet. If you are moving to an instance just because people disagree with you instead to have more discussion over a specific topic that is not really in line with the purpose of the fediverse.
alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
I see a lot more vegan hate than vegans.
MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.
WarlockLawyer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
No one hates vegans, but everyone loves to post vegan hate or idiotic “bacon” posts.
HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I wish that was true (and I’m not even vegan) but there are many outspoken anti-vegans. But then again they’re the types who will always find an out group to denigrate (in before someone oh-so-cleverly points out I’m doing the same to them).
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Nah, as a vegan most people act pretty hateful towards us even when we don’t bring up the topic.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They’re easy to hate - They’re weird, eat funny foods, care about things nobody else does (who care about chickens) and my god is there a subset of them that are the most truly obnoxious human beings (a statement that is, conveniently, true of every single group of humans). They’re basically furries for the non-internet crowd, nobody ever interacts with them to know it, so they get defined by the strawmen people create of them.
Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 3 months ago
The cause has been tainted by the extremists, to the point where even some vegans are being pushed away from the movement.
Of course, the ones that are on a niche media platform, in a community dedicated to veganism, are likely to be the nutter ones.
AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 3 months ago
who cares about chickens
Most people. Anyone who isn’t a psychopath cares to some extent about animals, vegan or non-vegan
queermunist@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
I had a pet chicken in elementary school. She was a sweetheart.
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 months ago
The community of non-vegans is a lot bigger than that of the vegans. So vegans do something that gets a reaction, you are much more likely to hear that reaction than the original thing.
Katzastrophe@feddit.org 3 months ago
My biggest gripe with vegan communities is that a lot of them have an “All or Nothing” mentality, going fully vegan is a luxury not everyone can afford, and yet I find mainly malice when trying to talk about reducing ones own reliance on meat and other animal products in online communities.
And veganism, if taken to the “no suffering of sentient beings” full extreme, forbids buying things (not just food) produced by slavery. And those things, especially electronics and clothes, are not financially viable for most to be bought without any slavery involved in any step whatsoever.
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Your goal is to do no more or less than the best you can. If you’re doing that, no one got shit on you.
socsa@piefed.social 3 months ago
Which is precisely why they will get along with the tankies so we'll. Both treat the very idea of nuance as an existential threat to the point where everything much be driven by the most extreme degree of moral panic or nothing at all.
threeduck@aussie.zone 3 months ago
Vegan diets are popular in third world countries because they’re considerably cheaper. Meat is cheap in western countries because it’s very often subsidized by governments. Meat consumption by wealth proves eating animals is a luxury.
Also veganism mantras always have “as far as is practicable”. I bought a Samsung phone because Fairphones don’t work here in Australia.
orrk@lemmy.world 3 months ago
vegan diets in third world countries are cheaper because they generally just end up being 90% filler starches and still have woefully bad nutrition outside of being calories
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
your oxford study doesn’t account for anyone who gets free or subsidized meat, or who catches, raises, or hunts their own. so it excludes basically all of the working poor, which is basically everyone.
buttfarts@lemy.lol 3 months ago
Save animals and switch to orphan-meat
Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
I had a look at the community yesterday, every post bar one was about vegan cat food for the last week. They’re not taking this well at all.
RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
I just had a look myself after your comment and cannot confirm your claim at all. There are, understandably, quite a few posts about this debacle and the future of their sub but more than half is stuff related to veganism not related to cats.
Emmie@lemmings.world 3 months ago
Cats can thrive on vegan diet perfectly well. Mine is still with me since like 4 years and didn’t eat a single animal protein in that time…
Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Four years isn’t that long, cats can live up to twenty years.
Jimbo@yiffit.net 3 months ago
Yeah I respect vegans, and applaud them for their life choices. I’m not in a position to, or willing at this point to become a vegan, but I looked at their community… Mostly insults when referring to any meat eater. Yeah, I respect them a fair bit less now.
davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 3 months ago
[deleted]lowleveldata@programming.dev 3 months ago
Yes that’s how you have a conversation. Good job.
Snowpix@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Dave, in fact, could not behave and could not resist a personal attack.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Person who pays for animals to be tortured
no one does that
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
When you know what occurs in factory farming. Its hard to continue to be nice to others who have the ability to stop supporting the cruel system with their money.
Its often easier to go vegan than people initially believe. You can do it.
m3t00@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Objection@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
archonet@lemy.lol 3 months ago
“oh no, the vegans are leaving!” said no-one ever
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
If that was true there wouldn’t be so many posts and comments about the situation.
merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Lemmy dot world definitely doesn’t circlejerk, no siree.
HRDS_654@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I mean, they’re the biggest instance, of course there is going to be circle jerking, but it also has more dissenting voices to push back against people who are just plain wrong.
socsa@piefed.social 3 months ago
"We taught a lion to eat Tofu"
I mean what a fucking mountain to die on. Bravo to all involved this has been quite entertaining.
Enkers@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I suspect the mountain to die was the admin actions removing moderators. Vegan cat food is pretty rarely discussed amongst actual vegans. It just happens to be a wedge issue that kind of looks like a gotcha if you squint, thus it’s beloved by anti-vegans trolls.
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Do not misrepresent the facts.
It was about a plant based-diet for cats that contains taurine and b12.
mysticpickle@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
SSJMarx@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Hexbear’s largest and most site-threatening drama was over its vegan comm (and I think the mods of Reddit’s vegancirclejerk?). It ended with the site requiring content warnings on all pictures of meat.
But you know what? They were right. Vegans are basically right about everything, and the reason me and my fellow omnis get our jimmies so rustled by them is because we fucking know they’re right.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 3 months ago
I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism. Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say. They also have the easier side to argue.
Im not a vegan but I’m not talking shit to a vegan for fear of getting dragged into a veganism debate.
Bakersfield@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Did they move to .ml or hexbear?
electric_nan@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
ITT: circlejerking.
JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I’m actually rather thankful for this entire drama, or rather my cats are.
I was ‘this’ close to forgetting some ham for their once in a while treat. Thanks, /c/vegan!AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 3 months ago
.world is the biggest circlejerk instance of all.
peopleproblems@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Isn’t it a rule if they stop acting superior they lose their vegan card and superpowers?
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I think we’ve had enough of the vegan cat food argument on Lemmy.world at this point.
sramder@lemmy.world 3 months ago
You guys 🥹
Look the beans were great, but our own bender-hookers-and-blow meme. You shouldn’t have ☺️❤️❤️❤️
telllos@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I still don’t know what tankies are and Im too afraid to ask.
ngn@lemy.lol 3 months ago
what - the only 5 active people in there got tired of getting bullied or something lmao
Objection@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
As a vegan tankie, I’m more than happy to welcome anyone who is passionate about justice and equality. If you think for yourself rather than just following and upholding arbitrary social norms, you’re going to get pushback from the people who believe in those norms. Whether the norms in question are the needless industrialized mass slaughter of animals, or the needless industrialized mass slaughter of the victims of US imperialism. And it’s much easier to have meaningful, higher level discussions among people who share certain common values, so you’re not having to constantly refute the same shitty low effort talking points over and over.
Please, keep pushing your vegan users our way.
MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
What if your behaviour towards other humans demonstrates a complete lack of any morality?
Who are you to force everyone else to do what your say? That sounds like slavery. Who are you to discriminate against those who eat meat? That sounds like the discrimination suffered by LGBTQ folks.
Who decided that you were morally superior and that anything you do is justified in the name of your moral purity?
FatherGascown@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I mean, they are vegans. Their brains withered long ago.
JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 months ago
Stop c/, it’s !
Stovetop@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I like and admire vegans.
I probably should be vegan because I am lucky enough to have the economic privilege to support that kind of lifestyle.
But, as with many other communities centered around lifestyle topics, I would never want to participate in a vegan community. Lifestyle communities always become insular and echo-chambery, so you become a pariah if you don’t properly adhere to 100% of the community consensus behaviors.
Not just vegans, but you see it happen with fitness communities, diy/home decor, a lot of hobbies, etc.
BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
I’m just keeping an eye out for good recipes.
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
I like that approach.
Stovetop@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Let me know if you find any favorites, I am down for anything easy and quick if they’re out there (as long as it’s not more rice and beans).
mathemachristian@lemm.ee 3 months ago
I wonder why they would be mean…
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Good job! This is the comment that made them turn vegan! Mission accomplished!
mogoh@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
@Stovetop did not say nor implied that he/she is not vegan, because of the community.
ngwoo@lemmy.world 3 months ago
You don’t pocket mulch?!
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I’m a level 5
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Just don’t interact with communities you dislike. It’s a pretty bad excuse to blame other people for something you don’t want to do.