Objection

@Objection@lemmy.ml

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:

  I’ve never used AI in a post. Not here, not ever.

  I swear, I try to concede a point, I get accused of being a bot. What, should just dig in and refuse to concede anything, even if I’m wrong, because doing so makes me sound like a bot? Y’all make it impossible to act in good faith.

  Is it so unbelievable that I could be convinced that a particular line of argument I was using was wrong? I had never thought to apply the logic I was using to the specific case of Israel/Palestine, and when I tried to think of a rebuttal, I couldn’t. That’s that. Humans make mistakes, Jesus.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Buddha orders a pizza: "Make me One with Everything"⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:

  :::spoiler an interpretation

  It might make more sense if you replace Joshu’s actions with “doing a jerk-off motion.” He’s treating the discussion as unserious, as well as treating himself as unserious.

  Nansen shows up looking to start an argument in bad faith, no doubt with all sorts of rhetorical talking points prepared designed to catch the other side in a gotcha. Attempting to engage just takes you into his prepared talking points and responses, while evading the question or refusing to answer makes him feel like he’s “won,” and leaves his words unchallenged.

  The only thing you can really do is to take him off script and take the wind out of his sails. Nansen was prepared for the possibility that they’d answer, and prepared for the possibility that they’d refuse to engage, but he didn’t have a plan for what to do if someone put a shoe on their head.

  Also, by treating himself unseriously and humbling himself, Joshu removes Nansen’s motivation to prove his superiority and the superiority of his house. Joshu essentially “shows his belly,” and says through his actions, “Bro, I’m just a silly little guy, if you wanna kill that cat, that’s all you.” Nansen’s internal justification for killing the cat could only be that he wanted to knock the other side down off their high horse, and so by abandoning any sense of dignity he would remove that motivation, and the cat’s life would be saved.

  By both having the wisdom to understand Nansen’s thought process, and having the humility to put aside his dignity for the sake of saving the life of an innocent being, Joshu ironically displays a better grasp of Buddhist teachings than Nansen, regardless of whether Nansen could beat him in a debate through wordplay and rhetoric.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Buddha orders a pizza: "Make me One with Everything"⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:

  Koans are designed to be given by a teacher to a student when the teacher personally assesses that the student could benefit from considering it. They’re also designed to not be comprehensible rationally or immediately, but rather to prompt introspection and to get someone to reflect on their own thought patterns. You can’t just rip them out of that context while not understanding the belief system and treat them like a riddle from Reader’s Digest and expect to get anything out of them.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  I fully understand that the racist caricature of a Chinese person presented in this meme is a scammer, that’s one of the stereotypes that makes it a racist caricature.

  If someone mosted a meme with a Jewish “happy merchant” scamming people, would you read that as being ok because it’s about “scammers?” Or would you recognize that invoking the stereotype of Jews being scammers is racist? Especially when presented in the context of other racial stereotypes. Or is anti-Chinese racism more acceptable to you for some reason?

  The joke is obviously painted this way, but you are intentionally misunderstanding so you can attack/dismiss the poster as a racist/fascist/Nazi, a very common leftist playbook technique to claim moral high ground.

  I didn’t misunderstand shit. Calling out racism is also a very common leftist playbook technique to… call out racism. Do you recognize that racism is a thing that exists and should be called out?

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  It’s kind of shocking that it has so many upvotes. I guess I’m saving this one and adding it to my pile of, “Reasons why I don’t give a shit what the majority of people on here think.”

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  The first part is especially true.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  You’re a racist piece of shit.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Lol. You’re the one trying to equate my misspelling with the intentional, stereotypical misspelling. You tried to twist my words to pretend that I “agree with you on the other stuff,” pointing to one instance of Chinese scammers and acting like by acknowledging that scammers of every race exist, that it justifies stereotyping Chinese people as scammers. You’ve baselessly accused me of “sounding like a mouthpiece for Trump.” You tried to pretend that the meme was making fun of China, rather than a stereotype of a Chinese person, and you tried to pretend that the joke was just “China’ historically tumultuous past with Taiwan” which is obviously nonsense.

  All of that is bad faith. You know it’s not true and that none of it holds up, it’s just meant to give you a bit of rhetorical room to play coy.

  By contrast, what have I said or done that’s bad faith?

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  You made a valid point. While both maintain that Taiwan is part of China, I suppose that doesn’t inherently preclude them both being independent countries. You’ve convinced me that that’s not a valid line of argument, so I’ve dropped it. You have scored a goal in the goalposts.

  I still don’t see what any of this has to do with the racist meme.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Trump, famous for calling out anti-Chinese racism.

  I grew up in the South, and you sound just like every “polite” racist I ever met. Every single racist joke I ever heard, when someone gets called on it, they respond exactly like you.

  According to your absurd, twisted logic, the fact that there’s a stereotype of Asians being smart would give you carte blanche to depict them as ignorant or stupid, because “the actual stereotype is the opposite.”

  Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  I’m glad we could agree on the other stuff though. Common ground is important when having a respectful disagreement.

  I don’t “agree on the other stuff.” This is not a “respectful disagreement.” You are a racist.

  You acknowledged that China and Taiwan have a tumultuous past for some reason you think thats irrelevant to the joke about China and Taiwan having a tumultuous past.

  That’s not what the joke is about, at all. I swear, why do racists love playing coy like this so damn much?

  That last part about the stereotype being that Chinese people are dumb just isn’t a contemporary sentiment in any way.

  “What do you mean calling Mexicans lazy is a stereotype? Isn’t the actual stereotype that they take people’s jobs because they work hard?”

  If you keep playing dumb, people are going to think you’re not playing.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  So 1 and 2 you’re agreeing with me, nice.

  Absolutely not.

  You’re acting as though the prevailing stereotype about Chinese people is that they are stupid and thus would mispell a word. Isn’t the actual stereotype about Chinese people the exact opposite? You know, really smart and good at math being the widely recognized stereotype.

  You’re acting as though racist stereotypes have any degree of logical consistency whatsoever.

  We both know why “fuk” is spelt that way, rather than any of the other words that could’ve been misspelled. But you can play coy all you like, as racists often do.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Regardless, I agree with the traditional US stance of “strategic ambiguity” which does not formally recognize Taiwan as independent but treats it as being independent de facto. This stance has maintained peace for decades with Taiwan being functionally independent, so I can see no reasonable reason to deviate from that. So I will repeat my position that I consider Taiwan de facto independent, but not formally so.

  None of this has anything to do with the racism in the meme that I’m criticizing.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Does China have a historically tumultuous relationship with Taiwan?

  As I’ve been abundantly clear this whole time, clarifying multiple times, it is not “China” represented in the meme, but a stereotypical Chinese person. “China” does not send text messages.

  Has China post been used a bunch lately to run scams?

  There are scammers of every race and in every country.

  Do people when passionate write quickly enough to make spelling mistakes? I’m giving you an out on “charicature” with that last one.

  My misspelling was a more obscure word, and I mixed up the ch of “character.” We both know that this is a completely different thing then intentionally putting a stereotypical misspelling into a character’s mouth, and you really have to stretch to try to equate that with a random spelling mistake on my part.

  This is only racist if you really want it to be.

  More like it’s only not racist if you really want it not to be.

  As they say, “once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.” Managing to fit three different stereotypes into such a short exchange is almost impressive, in a sick way.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  The punchline is that this stereotypical Chinese person is so triggered by the mention of Taiwan that the drop the attempt at scamming and respond “fuk you.”

  It’s hard to imagine how you could possibly make that more racist, and no, that is not a challenge.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  The sentence after that was the one where you maintained plausible deniability. Which is, I suppose, one other thing that’s different. You’re a bit more mask-on than the 1800’s racists were.

  The punchline is still racism though.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  China Post has been recently used in massive numbers to commit scams/fraud. The joke is rooted in reality because this has been happening recently.

  Oh, I see. Your position is that it’s not a stereotype, on the basis that Chinese people really are scammers.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  So is Taiwan part of China or is it not? Because if they haven’t renounced their claims, then they’re still maintaining that they’re part of China, are they not?

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  My mistake.

  You’re looking for caricature and not only can you not spell it but you clearly don’t know what it means.

  Well let’s see. Say you depict a Chinese person as

  1. A scammer

  2. Someone who gets so triggered at the mention of Taiwan that they drop everything else

  3. Someone who spells “fuck” like “fuk”

  I would say that that fits the definition pretty damn well.

  Everything else you’ve said is also false

  Ooh, neat line. Everything else you said is false too. Real time saver.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Yes, I understand that. It’s about Chinese people in general.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Oh? When did they renounce their territorial claim of the mainland?

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  Yes.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  I understand the joke, doesn’t make it any less racist.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  What do you mean? Taiwan is independent for all intents and purposes, but is not, nor does it claim to be, formally an independent country. I acknowledge that reality, yes.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  But they didn’t have texts in the 1800s

  Yes, this is what makes it a joke. Because the only difference is the format that’s changed, while the racial sensibilities are about the same.

  Chinese exclusionary act not anti scamming propaganda.

  Hey now, if you get to define your racist charicature in your own terms, don’t you think you should let them do so to? I’m sure the Workingmen’s Party of California would say that it’s just “anti-capitalist” propaganda, the capitalists being the ones who let those damn Chinese come in and take out jobs.

  Of course, it’s bullshit in both cases.

  I take it you’re a fan of Taiwan and its sovereignty then?

  What does Taiwan have to do with anything?

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  No, it’s not about “China” not accepting Taiwan as a country, because “China” does not typically engage in text messages, seeing as it’s not a person.

  It’s about a stereotypical Chinese person acting and speaking in a way that the person who created the fake texts decided to make them. Which is, first trying to scam people, then being so triggered by the mention of Taiwan that they break character, then misspelling a word in a stereotypical way.

  Taiwan is just how you justify the rest of it to yourself.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  I’m not sure how that has anything to do with anything I said.

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  I mean that the fake texts with intentionally bad grammar stereotyping Chinese people acting like a racist charicature is similar to the racial charicatures of the 1800s, was that unclear?

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Goteem⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  .world memes be like Image

• ⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Revolution.⁩ ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago⁩:

  I understand that it’s not. But I also understand that the government is currently paying a trillion dollars every year just on interest. And that countries are reconsidering the dollar as a stable reserve currency.

  National debt isn’t the same thing as other kinds of debt but you can only go “money printer go brrr” for so long before consequences start to show up.