Submitted 3 weeks ago by Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works to greentext@sh.itjust.works
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/6f2402a7-8cfb-49ab-b75c-d329831ade7a.png
It’s best to explain why what’s your doing is not mansplaining. That always works.
The real answer is to leave. I don’t think I’ve ever had a meaningful or productive conversation where any of these were used.
Though I can see stonewalling being used in earnest.
Stonewalling is probably the best only one on that list where a response would actually make anything better.
It’s best to explain why what’s your doing is not mansplaining. That always works.
If somebody accuses you of mansplaining, there is nothing you can do. that makes this so toxic as an argument. It’s basically saying “Whatever you are saying or want to say is worthless because of your gender”. I know that mansplaining is in theory a specific kind of disrespectful explaining, but in too many cases it’s used to deflect valid arguments. If someone is acting like that, the only way is to not interact further.
Yeah that top part was a joke.
It would be like asking a woman if it’s her time of the month or if she’s PMSing. It’s aggressively devalidating and at that point there’s nothing to say.
yep. the terms in the op are all thought terminating rhetoric and simply attacks.
Ask “Why do you feel that’s what I’m doing?” then reflect on the answer and how your behaviour was perceived this way. Finally, if after reflection you come to the conclusion that indeed you acted poorly, apologise and try to behave differently in the future.
And if it doesn’t?
Then they are acting unreasonably. It’s not so hard.
“Because youre doing it”
Now you’ve determined that your partner is a poor communicator, because “because” is never a useful answer. Now your question is whether to try to work with your partner to improve communication, or give up on an adult whose communication skills haven’t advanced beyond those of a child in first grade.
Trying to start a terapy randomly feeling like the one of the wort advice personally. In theory it is best thing to argue about something but in practice probably it will devolve to something else.
In theory it is a basic and clever method but if you are dont know what are you doing it will be like landing a plane with written insturactions.
I feel like everyone here needs a reminder that love bombing is something that happens AFTER mistreatment to make the victim calm down and become compliant.
This isn’t just being overly affectionate, it’s a technique used to manipulate behavior and keep a victim loyal.
Though it can be used during the initial parts of a relationship to make it progress at a very fast rate. Imo it’s best to hit the brakes even if the other person isn’t abusive. And hit the brakes as in don’t rush to move in with them, get married, or have a kid, as I think ending a relationship because it’s moving too fast is just as likely to end a good thing as avoid abuse.
IMO detecting abusive people is best done by seeing how they react when challenged, especially by someone they might consider a lesser.
With someone coming on too strong too fast you need to keep your eyes open and be aware of your boundaries. It may be someone who’s awesome and sincere who’s just on a different pace than you, it may be an intentional abuser being machiavellian, but it’s also got a pretty good chance of being someone unstable and sincere and oh fucking boy will that cause problems if you don’t have and maintain boundaries.
lovebombing used to describe cult behavior where a large group would shower praise and validation on a prospective member as a recruitment tactic. it’s no surprise that there’s confusion about what it means when it’s used to describe a wide variety of behaviors that are superficially connected.
Also, despite the name, the relationship does NOT need to be romantic for this to apply. Literally anyone in your life can be a abuser with tactics like this. Usually, sadly, it’s someone with some authority or ability to screw up your life. For example, like a workplace manager or a family member.
yo, did the fucking misogyny of 4chan get exported with this post or why are u all acting like chuds rn??
You new to greentext or what?
yo, did the fucking sense of humour of reddit get exported with this comment or why are u all acting like the comedy police rn??
“I am only misogynistic for the JOKE bro, geez”
There’s like 2 misogynistic comments in a sea of genuine advice and they’re both pretty obviously sarcasm
It’s supposed to be tongue-in-cheek.
I have a sister in law like this. She’s really cool and we generally get along but God damn is she hard to deal with sometimes.
There was one instance where it was our niece’s birthday and we had made this shitty balloon arch for pictures. When it came to the end of the party and we needed to break it all down, I knew that a bunch of the balloons had like confetti in them. She was helping with the breakdown, and I had dealt with these before so I was like “watch out for the confetti balloons, try to cut them open near the know and let the air out slow, and do it over a garbage can incase it pops. They will shoot confetti everywhere if they pop and it’s a pain in the ass to clean up” and she just turned at me with tho most vitriol “ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO MANSPLAIN TO ME HOW TO POP BALLOONS?!” and I was like “Okay jeez, was just trying to help”
Not two minute later I see her with a pin just popping the balloons off of the arch. Fucking confetti everywhere. I turned to my wife, who saw the exchange and I was like “yeah I’m not helping clean that up”
This is the same woman who screams about body shaming etc, and when she expressed interest in one of my friends who is Japanese said “He’s hot but it’s too bad he probably has a small dick”. Like… That’s racist AND body shaming.
We agree on a lot of things socially and politically, and like I said generally we get along, but she also complains very loudly about how she can’t keep relationships sustained and it’s like… Yo, all you do is vocally complain about how men are the source of all problems. But you also want to be with one?
Like, look… I’m all in support of feminism, but it should be about rising women up, not chopping men down. I didn’t choose to be born with a penis. Why am I automatically an enemy? I’m an ally.
Fuck.
First part: mansplaing and helping are often hard to tell apart. Especially if you get mansplained all the time. In this case I am sure you are in the right.
Second part: we didn’t choose to have a penis but we are part of the patriarchy problem. We were socialized with privileges and those let us behave in a way that keeps said patriarchy working. Feminism for me is about figuring out what helps to level the playing field and what doesn’t. I am wrong a lot.
Being an ally is sometimes confused with “I am not doing anything wrong” like not being sexist. That is not enough anymore. We need to speak up when somebody else uses behaves in a sexist way. We need to actively change things because we are the patriarchy and by being part of that are helping to keep the status quo just by existing as a male in the society and passively enjoying the privileges that come with that.
First part: mansplaing and helping are often hard to tell apart. Especially if you get mansplained all the time. In this case I am sure you are in the right.
One of the problems with “Hello, I’m from the internet and I have a story where I was definitely right and the other person was the asshole” is that you’re getting a very one-sided narrative without any historical context.
Just-So rants are a dime a dozen around here.
The difference between mansplaining and helping is all about the level of condescension attached to your “help”. If you are genuinely trying to relay information that you feel may help someone…you’re good. If you’re talking down to someone that you feel would already have this information, if only they had been born with a penis…you’re being a misogynistic asshole.
It took me about 40 years to finally realise how much privilege has been bestowed upon me. It’s a very strange thing to view personal historical events through this lens. I don’t regret anything, the opposite in fact, it’s a source personal development.
“I do tend to overexplain and I’m sorry, please shut me down if I do, but please believe me when I tell you that I overexplain everyone and it has nothing to do with your perceived gender, I just have the *tism.” - this is my usually response because it’s true.
I got accused of mansplaining because I was helping someone on a tech support call (they were taking the call to support a user, and I was assisting them) and I started with the basic information they’d need to understand the problem and how to fix it. After the call she turned around to the guy next to her and complained about it and he was just like, “oh, no, he’s like that with everyone”.
My philosophy was based on the fact that our managers hired people for people skills over technical background because they assumed the tech stuff could be trained and that if someone was asking me for help there was a gap in their knowledge somewhere and I had no way to know where it was other than to begin at the beginning and work through it. Most people appreciated it. But some were full of themselves and got pissed about it, those types typically didn’t last very long on that job.
banger
Reflect upon how you are acting. Empathize with the other person’s POV. Then discuss rationally from a point of mutual benefit.
It depends if the accusations come in good or bad faith.
The funny thing is when people say “you’re gaslighting me”, but actually you’re the one being gaslit.
Really the problem with things like this is just when they’re used in bad faith to gain rhetorical advantage. It’s fine to say something to the effect of:
“I believe you’re gaslighting me. Here’s what I remember happening, and here’s some supporting evidence. What you’re saying is that it didn’t happen that way. If your intention is not to intentionally try to mislead me about how things occurred, can you explain?”
But just saying “You’re gaslighting me” when really what’s happened is that the way things actually happened is inconvenient to their argument - that’s the issue. It all comes down to their motivation
Real gaslighters LOVE the opportunity to further twist facts, or maybe its compulsion. Its better to either disengage entirely or focus on one or two key points their bullshit cannot change
Therapyspeak is a weaponized toolkit for typically BPD/sociopaths/narcissists to manipulate the situation into them always being right, and the only person whose thoughts and feelings and intentions matter.
It is extremely unforunate that this is the case… but it is the case.
Here’s a maybe relatable shit test:
Are you having conversations with a person that resemble diatribes/debates from SexPestiny or Thor/PirateSoftware?
Yep, that’s a sociopathic narcissists that put a bunch of skill points into therapyspeak/debate rhetoric.
You have to disengage once you know they’re actually doing it. Same with any manipulative behavior. But if you’re really not sure, I’ve had luck pressing them on why what they’ve said doesn’t make logical sense. If they can’t support it, I can dismiss it and disengage.
I’ve never really understood gaslighting.
Yes I know the original definition.
Yes I know the phrase is overused to describe behaviour it really doesn’t apply to.
I just cant imagine someone actually planning to manipulate someone in this way.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people think of gaslighting as if it were intentional, but when I have encountered gaslighting, it has usually come from people who have a different view of events and are unwilling to accept that their viewpoint isn’t the absolute truth of the situation.
They will argue from the viewpoint of “the way I remember things is the way things happened”.
Then when you say that they are gaslighting you, they will say that they are not.
In their mind, they’re just telling the truth of events as they remember them, no malice intended.
My partner’s mother gaslights a lot. Think about scenario: She does something wrong, she backs off from situation for a few days to allow memories to wane a bit, then grabs the weakest link and starts bending the truth to paint herself in a bit better light at worst, and at best, shift whole fault on another person. She focuses on small, easily misremembered parts of story, and if you call her bullshit, she will accuse you of either not remembering or twisting it against her.
And she did that to my partner for their whole childhood and now my partner fights depression and lack of feeling of self worth. Also reacts to “I remember it differently” with aggression, which bites me in the ass but at least shields her from her mother.
I grew up with another gaslighter, my granny, who reframed and twisted everything to be my mothers fault and if she tried to defend then it was her remembering wrong, “not seeing such simple stuff” or being against granny. She did so with malice and ruined my mothers mental health. Same with her husband, who literally hanged himself.
Both cases were narcissistic but I can see someone using it out of other reasons.
Gaslighting includes the intention to mislead, leading to another person doubting their own reality. It’s a real thing some people do. When you’re experiencing it, you’re forced into cognitive dissonance as the reality you experience doesn’t line up with what another person claims.
That’s what gives nuance to the concept. Not all lies are gaslighting. Misremembering isn’t gaslighting. It requires a denial of reality that leads to another person second-guessing their own experiences. Gaslighting rarely occurs as a one-off event, it’s part of a recurring campaign that slowly changes how a victim perceives their own reality.
It’s okay to have difficulty imagining it. In fact I’d say you’ve been fortunate not to be exposed to it. Just be aware of it in case you ever find yourself in a relationship where it applies.
So my father did it, and I don’t think it was intentional, the big thing was that his perspective was to be treated as objective fact in discussions in which he was a part. You could say something like “I’m cold” and he’d respond with “it’s not cold” in a frustrated tone. The long and short of it in how it fucked me up is that I struggle to trust my own subjective reality and feel the need to get permission to feel things. That can be a real problem when it comes time to form and maintain boundaries for example.
The lovebombing accusation is what gets me. Sorry for being lonely and easily getting infatuated on the rare occasion I get to date someone 😭
I man no disrespect but you gotta reign it in. I totally get where you’re coming from but getting lovebombed is a red flag for good reason.
You alluded to one reason why in your comment…if the infatuation isn’t mutual, it feels like the person is just excited to be in a relationship. They’re in love with being in love, not with me.
And unless you’re a narcissist, it just feels weird to put on a pedestal. Getting fawned over 24/7 is too much. People just want a partner that is a normal person most of the time.
It also has the connotation of codependence. And with that, it’s likely this person is going to have a mental breakdown if we break up in a year.
Lovebombing usually means baggage. It’s understandable that people don’t want to start a relationship with someone carrying a ton of baggage.
I mean, thank you for your advice, but I’ve been dating for quite a while now so I already learned I have to tone it down. It just feels frustrating having to pretend I’m less interested than I actually am, when I’m usually a person that hates being disingenuous
Yeah I associate it with uncontrolled BPD and it fucking terrifies me at this point because of the experiences that caused that association. Being put on a pedestal sucks, your successes become expected and your failures become catastrophic. But also you can feel trapped for fear of hurting someone who you do like who’s in a bad place. And from there enforcing boundaries can start to feel like hurting them.
With my wife we still make points to express that we’d be ok and manage if the other left. Our finances are built with that in mind even. Knowing I can leave makes me always aware of how I don’t want to, and it makes us safe and secure in the fact that we know the other doesn’t want to.
“…this is a Wendy’s.”
360 you stay exactly where you were
That’s the joke
You post all your relationship problems to 4chan, then enjoy your miserable life
In this biz these are known as “thought-terminating clichés.”
We need the wikipedia page for it on speed dial. Everyone uses them. I especially hate the “let’s see you do better” for art.
it’s very important to begin your response with the word
Axxxxually…
Honestly if someone was using all these terms, I’d stop talking to them. I don’t have time to be an avatar for your underlying mental issues to attack.
Anon you’re an asshole and you know this since kindergarten. Stop gaslighting
Stop talking to them altogether, I guess.
Put in headphones, listen to a comedy laugh and ignore. Probably better turn on the body cam on too… And create space from this person.
And stop trying to get everyone to like you.You don’t even like everyone.
And stop trying to get everyone to like you.You don’t even like everyone.
The first part has been my mantra for years now, luckily, but I like how the second part gives an obvious, concise reason and I’ll add that to my stash of advice for other people. Thank you :)
Ty homie.
Ive been contemplating that and what Bruce Lee says, “we are all one family under the sun. Its just that people are different.”
That said, if you see a baby in a burning building, tons of people may yell at you not to go into the building. Maybe they dont see the baby, maybe they are idiots…but regardless, if you’re doing something meaningful… ignoring how others feels about you is easier.
Your thoughts r welcome!
I use all these techniques to get out of paying for prostitutes.
(Just kidding I can’t afford prostitutes)
Guys I’m not sure if this person is just kidding
Why pay if you gave her pleasure too
Well it’s either you or her. Get better at communicating or tell her to figure out her shit.
Or both. It could be both. Really, its usually both.
find a non hysterical woman who can use better logic to explain why she is upset with you
that said if it was just one of these things you may be doing it
lord help you if it really is all 4 and you can’t tell
I never got to this point in the first place. But generally, I don’t respond.
“Ok, I’m evil, I admit it, goodbye”.
Everyone is happy, the end.
There is some context missing which makes it hard to give solid advice.
I do think, though, that the internet probably isn’t the best place to seek relationship advice unless you have already made up your mind that you’re leaving and you just need the final push.
You can walk away and be criticized for going your own way instead.
Maybe I’m ignorant, but love bombing sounds pretty nice.
Yeah, that’s the problem. Once I married a woman I had known for six months, because that whole time she was crazy about me. I was the center of her world. It felt great - I wasn’t used to getting a lot of attention from women, and here was one literally begging me to marry her. I went for it. But for whatever reason (maybe God thought it was funny) there are people out there who flip between over-the-top loving someone and over-the-top hating him, for no external reason. My ex-wife kept the crazy under control before we got engaged, but after that about a couple of times a week she would flip out. I ended up divorcing her after six months of marriage - the last straw was when on my birthday she flipped out because I wanted to celebrate with my family and not just with her. Normal social interactions don’t prepare you to deal with a person like that.
My friend’s going through something similar now and not saying something earlier is one of my biggest regrets.
We were both single when they started dating and I didn’t want to seem jealous by pointing it out. Now they’ve got two kids and are getting divorced because she found someone new to lovebomb.
I think it’s only called that when it’s being used to manipulate you, paradigm case being an abuser who swears they didn’t mean to they love you so much they weren’t thinking straight please say you love me
Love-bombing a love-bomber can get epic, but then there’s the fallout when the one drops the act and is terrified by the possibilities that: you weren’t acting, you were just matching their energy and can meet them down in the trenches before they can actually drag you down, and/or you knew what they were up to and refuse to be made to have a problem with it(see “weren’t acting”).
Now you’re stuck with a bait-and-switcher who cannot grasp that you might not be pulling the same trick they just failed to land.
If this sounds like a lot of drama and a massive pain, it is, and that’s why its not recommended over disengaging once you’ve realized what’s happening.
Sometimes I wish I could take psychopathy for a test drive, just to see what it’s like to be emotionally invulnerable for a day. This is the kind of thing I’d want to do.
You are a big girl, use proper words.
Psychology can be the worst coercion tactic since you can hardly criticise it.
Like seriously, how do you even respond to “You need to love yourself!” when it’s used as an attack. When you say highlight that it’s controlling behaviour to psychologise, you can always receive the response that your critical remark, phrased as deflection, is a sign of distrust in psychology or distrust in general and that that is a sign that your pathology runs even deeper, which makes the original attack even more correct.
Leave psychology to those who have actually read the books and the modicum of social skills needed to empathise.
If you don’t hear it often? Sand gaslighting, “maybe you need it then”.
Always rethink your position and switch PoV for the other side for a bit mentally. But if you get back to where you are, feel free to feel attacked lol. Mostly due to phrasing. This is accusation, and accusations aren’t thrown out of good will.
With gaslighting, just wave your hand, say whatever and change topic. Either you got too emotional and focused on needing to win, or the other person is willing to throw anything at you because they feel attacked and already full on with defence. No moving there either way. Just drop it and move on.
SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Stop getting relationship advice/expectations from 4chan, for starters.
FatVegan@leminal.space 3 weeks ago
But my relationship is going a little too well