How does someone with such a shitty personality and dress sense get so smug?
If I looked and acted like him I would want to punch myself in the face
'Borderlands 4 is a premium game made for premium gamers' is Randy Pitchford's tone deaf retort to the performance backlash: 'If you're trying to drive a monster truck with a leaf blower's motor, you're going to be disappointed'
Submitted 2 weeks ago by mintiefresh@piefed.ca to games@lemmy.world
Comments
normanwall@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
How does someone with such a shitty personality and dress sense get so smug?
Lots and lots of money.
If I looked and acted like him I would want to punch myself in the face
He has top of the line security details to do that for him.
dangling_cat@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
And they keep failing up. Your job qualification is what you have done, not how well they were doing.
kepix@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
he has reached enough wealth, rules do not apply anymore
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So a 4070 is a leaf blower to this asshole.
Well I’ll gladly not buy this game then.
xep@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
A game that looks like BL4 shouldn’t run like Cyberpunk 2077 with ray tracing turned on.
trslim@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Hot take, Borderlands was never really a good franchise. Yeah I played through the second game, but i did so once, and never wanted to return to it afterwards.
proper@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
there was something special about playing through 1 for the first time knowing nothing what to expect. Then when 2 came out I liked it alright but already felt like it was a big tonal departure. funny to see the discussion shift over time to 2 being the benchmark and 3(+) going too far.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well to me, borderlands 2 was the most fun I’ve had with a shooter since half-life 2 or CoD4. It’s one of the funniest games I’ve ever played as well. I think the writing in general is really top notch (props to Anthony Birch), the characters are memorable, the weapons and abilities are fun. All and all, BL2 really hit the mark in a lot of ways for me.
Borderlands 3 on the other hand, just wasn’t as good. It had a ton of great quality of life improvements, so that was nice. The player abilities were also largely really good, I liked most of the classes. But it had a ton of weaknesses… The level design was pretty awful, the much bigger maps really spread out the action absolutely killed the pacing. The story was pretty dumb, and while the villains were detestable, it was only in the way that all obnoxious teenagers are detestable. And the greatest sin, the loot was a mess. They actually threw way too many guns at you, so many that you never really get a chance to enjoy any of them. And way too many of them were uniques (with mysterious effects they never bother to explain).
wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org 2 weeks ago
Honestly that was how I felt as well. I remember being hyped the play bl2 and then getting bored doing meaningless quests over and over. Like am I supposed to feel anything for these people asking me to retrieve parts over and over? At least do some sort of quest where they can shoot people. I thought the combat system was better but I wasn’t compelled to play through it
edgemaster72@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The best game in the franchise is the Telltale game
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
That one is a gem, Gearbox can’t compete with this. B2’s only biggest asset is the voice actor, the animation when two character interact is worst than Oblivion.
deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Agree
UnsavoryMollusk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s nice, he is kind enough to tell us that we should not buy his game if we do not have a monster gpu. He is only excluding a very small portion of gamers after all !
Let’s look at the Valve’s hardware survey.
Wait…
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Most popular system RAM is 16GB, and VRAM is 8GB.
Wow! Powerful specs!
Gork@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Maybe try optimizing your game before releasing it?
itkovian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Please try optimizing your pc before purchasing BL4. \s
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s probably the best how copilot could optimize it.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
It’s poorly optimized UE5 slop. Looks like shit, plays like shit.
Hard pass.
I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Stop using slop for non-ai things.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Slop is a real word not made exclusively for ai
Snowpix@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Slop has existed as a word far longer than AI has. Uses for the word slop include:
-
Unappetizing watery food or soup.
-
Spilled or splashed liquid.
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Waste food fed to farm animals such as pigs.
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Soft mud or slosh.
-
T00l_shed@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s still slop, just not ai slop.
LongMember69@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Guess my hogs will be going hungry.
SaltySalamander@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
You're not my real mom.
FluffMongo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
no. slop be sloppin whether it’s AI or not.
etchinghillside@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
So… I shouldn’t plan on playing this on a Steamdeck when it gets down to $19.99?
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Not the current one, no. The Steam Deck is closer to a PS4 spec, and even if there weren’t optimization problems, this is built to a PS5 spec.
normanwall@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Someone smarter than Randy will figure out tweaks and optimisations to allow it eventually.
TachyonTele@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I'd watch reviews first.
Borderlands 3 works excellent on the deck though.
yolahermanto@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
It's sad that a lot of devs just make their game and then slap frame-gen on it and then release it. Like who cares about optimization. Not that I blame them, people still buy those games full-priced, so...
eatCasserole@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Who even has time to play full price games? I have enough unplayed games piled up in my steam/epic/gog libraries to keep me busy for decades.
PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Well a surprisingly lot of people. Just a guess but maybe this is the main or only hobby for a significant amount of buyers?
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
people still buy those games full-priced, so…
Wait, does nobody pirate games any more? I don’t think I bought a single game until I turned 25.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In other words:
“We don’t want to put resources towards optimising our product. We don’t care if the methods we built our product with make it more difficult to use, while regressing in several key visual aspects. The burdon of our shortcomings will be placed on the end user, who will have to spend their resources to out-power them.”
philosloppy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
borderlands
premium
lol
lmao
rofl
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sucker game made for sucker gamers.
Are you inclined to blame yourself for the obvious failings of a gaming corporation? Smash that buy button now!
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
What a total dick. Lots of people with high end PCs are all saying how it runs like shit, so what’s the next excuse?
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’re not premium gamers. It’s about what’s inside your soul, not the kind of PC you have.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Ah, my mistake. If only our souls were as pristine and premium and Randy Pitchford lmao
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
I’ll play something cheaper then
Flamekebab@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I guess I'm not premium enough to give you my money, Randy.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
I am a premium gamer; if you want me to play your premium game, you’ll need to subscribe to me for $29.99/month or $324/year.
nagaram@startrek.website 2 weeks ago
Considering Randy REALLY wants you to pay $130 USD for this game, I’m not shocked his performance advice was “be less poor”
frongt@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Is Borderlands really all that popular still? Like I remember seeing the first few games everywhere, and people talking about them, but that was years ago. I realize I’m biased but I would expect to hear something about them…
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
1 was fresh and new
2 was fantastic
prequel was OK
3 tried too hard and was generally average to poor
Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Maybe he could try to make another TV series.
tankfox@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
After what they did to my boy claptrap they can eat it. It’s obvious that the voice acting department is going to go out of the way to deservedly sabotage this series until it finally gives up.
Atherel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Does 1 get better? I have 1 and 2 from a bundle years ago and started the first game. It’s sooo boring, like all the bad stuff from an mmo but single player. I don’t want to walk from a Hub to place A multiple times and just the spawning mobs change based on the quest.
Or if 1 doesn’t get better, can I play 2 without losing to much?
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
2 was where the series really peaked. The first did some new things, and brought some fresh life into the shooter genre.
2 expanded upon it, and had a much better story. It was also in the heyday of matchmaking game lobbies, so it was easy to boot up the match finder and jump into a game with someone. Probably half of my Steam friends list came from playing this game and just vibing with people on voice chat while we ran through the side quests.
The prequel was… Alright? I’d put it about on par with the first game. It didn’t bring anything new or exciting to the table, but it was good at what it did.
Then 3 was just bad. It felt really cringey, in a “how do you do, fellow kids” kind of way. Like it was trying too hard.
And now 4 sounds like more of 3. The lead dev sounds out of touch, and the game sounds rushed.
Broadfern@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nah I’m not gonna pay $80 for unoptimized copy-paste spyware my man thanks
TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
That’s the thing, Randy, we aren’t interested in a monster truck, we just need a car. A 5090 is not a leaf blower, and your game looks more like a clown car than a monster truck given the way it runs. Thanks for telling us that you are basically only interested in whales, although I can’t imagine they are happy either regardless of how they’ve probably thrown money at you already.
normalexit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I played lots of borderlands 2 with my friends back in the day it was pretty fun.
Three came out, played it for a bit, but it was just more of the same and somehow worse. Then I watched that God awful movie.
I think I’m over the franchise, but maybe here in a few years I’ll pick it up for $5 in a summer sale.
Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I adored the presequel, did so many interesting things. The verticality, stomp attacks and oxygen masks were awesome. Also the low grav meant the maps could be way more varied and interesting.
Waited for the reviews for the third (never pre-order, always wait for reviews!) and it just seemed so… mid. Definitely happy I dropped out of that franchise when I did.
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I found 1 and 2 were games I could both replay at least once. With 2 the only bad bit to replay is bricks area where the devs just spammed a ton of very spongy enemies in a big map. 3 had more fun vault hunters mechanically but even during the first playthrough so much of it feels like filler content (like literally ALL of Hammerlocks area) and the final boss is somehow even more dissapointing than BL1, trying to play through a second time is at least 2/3 “Oh god not this bit again”.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
It was out free, but had some spyware or something, so I refused it for free…
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
“we haven’t optimised this at all, lol, $80 please”
itkovian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I guess I will stick to my “non-premium” games made by devs who actually care about providing experiences worth experiencing, instead of a checklist-driven, committee designed and overpriced games that are most AAA games.
nfreak@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I sunk 90 hours into Silksong since launch, and now I’m going through Nine Sols and playing PoE2 on and off. I won’t lie I’m hearing good things about BL4 minus the performance, but I’m not giving Randy a single cent.
fuzzywombat@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I was planning on picking up B4 when the GOTY edition goes on sale for $20-30 couple years from now. I figured performance issues will be solved by then. Now I think I’ll pass.
SaltySalamander@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
Piracy, my friend. Fuck devs like this.
purplemonkeymad@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Probably not worth pirating, will still run like crap.
Forgetting about it is probably the best insult you can give it.
stringere@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Bought it to try n Linux. I don’t have the greatest video card but I can play Dune: Awakening, Helldivers 2, Monster Hunter Wikds, Avowed, Black Myth: Wukong…
Borderlands 4 was stuttering on the barely animated character select. I lowered settings all as low as possible and it was still unplayable with delayed/missed input and stuttering.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I can’t decide if the explanation that “our shitty game is made for premium gamers” is more or less absurd than EA charging 80 bucks for a game with most of its characters still locked would “provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment”.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Such a bad argument. There is no reason for the game to not support lower end hardware except for lazy development. Not a good sign for the future of borderlands. This is also the type of game that really sucks if you don’t get a locked 60 FPS. Borderlands 3 is still a laggy mess on my steam deck. Sometimes it just stutters forever. Constantly generating shaders or something. There is no reason for it to be that way and lowering the setting has almost no effect on the actual performance. This is 100% the fault of the devs. They are pushing half complete products to market not the consumer.
Also as many other have stated, not everyone has $4000 to drop on a PC. My most powerful machine is a Skylake processor with a 1070. It runs most games fine, it’s just the handful of unoptimized unreal engine games that run badly. I have nearly limitless options to buy other games from devs who actually care about us poorer folk.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hell, I don’t know many people willing to drop 4k on a gaming rig. Most people I know with a gaming computer are in the 1-2k range and miss when you could get decent performance under 1k. Like, if I can’t get playable performance out of a several years old mid range computer I’m not buying your game, especially not for $70
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
That was a reference to a video I saw, something like, trying to play borderlands at 60 FPS on a $4k computer.
2k is about the minimum these days for a full system when you include taxes and shipping. That will get you a midrange system. You can get lower end stuff or buy a used graphics card. Personally I’m still rocking a 1070 and it’s excellent for like 99% of games. I’m lucky that the handful of games that won’t run on it I don’t care about anyways.
tal@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Ram is cheap
Kind of divering from the larger point, but that’s true — RAM prices haven’t gone up as much as other things have over the years. I do kind of wonder if there are things that game engines could do to take advantage of more memory.
I think that some of this is making games that will run on both consoles and PCs, where consoles have a pretty hard cap on how much memory they can have, so any work that gets put into improving high-memory stuff is something that console players won’t see.
checks Wikipedia
The XBox Series X has 16GB of unified memory.
The Playstation 5 Pro has 16GB of unified memory and 2GB of system memory.
You can get a desktop with 256GB of memory today, about 14 times that.
Would have to be something that doesn’t require a lot of extra dev time or testing. Can’t do more geometry, I think, because that’d need memory on the GPU.
considers
Maybe something where the game can dynamically render something expensive at high resolution, and then move it into video memory.
Like, Fallout 76 uses, IIRC, statically-rendered billboards of the 3D world for distant terrain features, like, stuff in neighboring and further off cells. You’re gonna have a fixed-size set of those loaded into VRAM at any one time. But you could cut the size of a given area that uses one set of billboards, and keep them preloaded in system memory.
Or…I don’t know if game systems can generate simpler-geometry level-of-detail (LOD) objects in the distance or if human modelers still have to do that by hand. But if they can do it procedurally, increasing the number of LOD levels should just increase storage space, and keeping more preloaded in RAM just require more RAM. You only have one level in VRAM at a time, so it doesn’t increase demand for VRAM. That’d provide for smoother transitions as distant objects come closer.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
You can divide stuff up into memory however you want, into objects, arrays, whatever. Generally speaking the GPU memory is used for things which will run fast in the streaming processors of the GPU. They are small processors specialized for a limited set of tasks that involve 3D rendering. The types of thing you would have in GPU memory is textures, models, shader scripts, various buffers created to store data for rendering passes like lighting and shadow, and the frame buffer.
Other things are kept in the ram and are used by the CPU which has many instruction sets and many optimizations for different types of tasks. CPUs are really good at running unpredictable code. They have very large and complex cores which do all kinds of things like branch prediction( taking several paths through code ahead of time when there is free time available) it has direct access to the PCI bus and access things like the south and north bridge, storage controller, io devices, etc.
Generally on a game engine most of the actual logic is happening on the CPU because this is very complex and arbitrary code that is calculation heavy. Things like the level data, AI, collisions, physics, streaming data and stuff is handled by the CPU. The CPU prepares frames by batching many things into one call to the GPU. This is because the GPU is good at taking a command from the CPU and performing that task many times simultaneously. Things like pixels for example. If the CPU had to send every instruction to the GPU in sequence it would be very slow. This is because of the physical distance between the GPU and CPU and also just that a script would only do one thing at a time in a loop. Shaders are different. They are like running a function across a large data set utilizing the 1000 + cores in an average modern GPU.
There are other differences as well. The CPU has access to low latency memory where the GPU prefers higher latency but high bandwidth memory. This is because the types of operations the GPU is doing are much more predictable and consistent. CPUs are very arbitrary and often the CPU might end up taking a path that is unusual so the memory it has to access might be scattered and arbitrary.
So basically most of the game engine and game logic runs in memory because it’s essentially a sequential program that is very linear and arbitrary and because the CPU has many tools in its tool boxes for different tasks, like AVX, SSE, and stuff like this. Most of the visual stuff like 3D transformation and shading and sampling take place on the GPU because its high bandwidth and highly parallel yet with some cores, yet you have many of them that can operate independently.
Ram is very useful but is always limited by console tech. It is particularly important in more interactive and sandboxy type games. Stuff like voxels. It also comes in handy when running sim or rts games. Engines are usually designed around console specs so they can release on those platforms. It can be used for anything even rendering, but it is extremely slow compared to GPU memory in actual bandwidth, which is usually less then an inch away from the actual GPU and has a large bus interface, something like 128-512 bit. This is how many physical wires connect the memory chip to the GPU. It limits how much data you can send in one chunk or cycle. With a 64 bit interface you can only send one 64 bit word at a time. Many processes can pack 4 of those into a 256 word and send them at once getting a 4x speed increase.
So you have higher bandwidth, high latency memory on a wide bus which feeds a very predictable set of many simple processors. Usually when you want to load memory into the GPU you have to prepare it with the CPU and send it over the PCI bus. This is far too slow to actually use system ram to augment the GPU ram. It’s slow in latency and ram, so you GPU will be sitting idle 80% of the time waiting on packets, and then it will only get a 64 or 128 bit packet from the ram, not to mention the CPU overhead.
Having high ram requirements wouldn’t be the worse thing in the world because it’s cheap and can really help some types of game which have large and complex worlds with lots of physics and things happening. Ram is cheap. Not optimizing for GPUs is pretty bad especially with prices these days. That will not happen much because games tend to be written in languages like C++ which manage memory in a very low level way, so they tend to just take about as much as they need. One of the biggest reasons you use a language like C++ to write game engines is because you can decide how and when to allocate and free memory. This prevents stuttering. If the system is handling memory you tend to get a good deal of stuttering because the CPU will get loaded for half a sec here and there as it tries to free 2 GBs of memory or something. This tends to make games engines very structured when it comes to the amount of memory they use. Since they are mostly trying to reuse code as much as possible, and are targeting consoles, they usually just aim for the amount of ram they know they will have on consoles. Things like extra draw distance on PCs and stuff can use more memory.
LODs can be generated in real time but this is slow. You can do nearly anything with code. It’s just if it’s a good fit for your application. In a game engine every cycle is precious. Generating LODs is just something that isn’t done unless needed for some reason, like dynamic terrain or voxel terrain. In a game that is mostly static geometry there is not really any reason to give up that compute time when you can just pregen them.
Taldan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There aren’t enough monster truck owners to support his game. If he gets his wish, Gearbox is going to lose a whole lot of money
The reality is that it is a mass market game. It needs mass market adoption. Currently much of the market is locked out due to performance issues
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Everyone without a 5090 should immediately refund the game and use these remarks as the justification.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Can we please standardize a pc parts price point?
Like, “it doesn’t matter where technology is, $600 gets you ‘low’, &1000 gets you ‘high’, and $2000 gets you ‘ultra’.”
PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So anyway, you guys excited for Hades 2?
Yupa@ani.social 2 weeks ago
Hell yeah! Recently finished Clair Obscur, now playing Silksong, and waiting for Hades 2, this year is packed with awesome indies!
C4551E@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Hell yeah indeed! Shape of Dreams just dropped too, and is awesome (if you like the genre). Incredible year so far.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s hard to be excited with how much I’ve played the early access, but yes. Amazing game, I really should’ve paced myself
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I love Borderlands, but I really wish Randy would just shut the fuck up.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think he thinks he’s Jack in The Pre-Sequel, but really he’s Jack in Borderlands 2.
MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Jack in BL2 was funny and entertaining tho.
Onyxonblack@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I hate borderlands, and I also wish Randy would shut the fuck up!
pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe 2 weeks ago
I have a simple rule - Not touching anything that has grease on it.
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
B1 is a bit slow, but quite fun, B2 is brilliant, BTPS is similar to B2, but the crafting stuff is annoying, B3 was too chaotic with a too cluttred UI and a damn annoying story, B4, I have no idea
simple@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Allegedly B4 is much better than 3, aside from the abysmal performance. I can wait until they fix it and get it for $15 on sale.
Zahille7@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Have you tried Wonderlands? I really liked it, and would love a sequel/more of that one.
debil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’ve been playing B4 for a few hours now and it’s been pretty good. Definitely getting more B2 vibes than B3.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Good assessment. I agree completely!
I’m not very far in, but so far I’m enjoying B4 more than TPS, and MUCH more than 3.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What crafting?
Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I think it was a really good game originally. The writing has gotten really fucking bad though, and the gameplay hasn’t really evolved with the times. (I can’t speak on the new game.)
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The new one feels like progress so far. I’m not very deep in, but the story and dialogue are not nearly as annoying as 3 was. The biggest difference has to be the movement. In previous games it often felt like you were trudging forward until you found an enemy and then running backwards so they didn’t catch you before they die. Grappling hooks, double jumps, and gliding add a TON of movement and gives you those John Wick moments where you’re bouncing around the area and blasting people from every direction.