Submitted 6 days ago by Nighed@feddit.uk to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://feddit.uk/pictrs/image/7f2c0c38-4e1d-4347-bcca-a4fb2c296e1a.webp
They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
That might sound backwards but it isn’t
Squirrels and raccoons will rummage, and disperse trash. There is t much you can do about that beyond 1. Harm wildlife or 2. Reduce trash.
I’ll go out on a limb that Raccoons won’t rummage here :)
I agree with the sentiment but if they have a cafe selling things in disposable packaging then the best thing they can do is provide bins to deal with it. Pretending they don’t generate rubbish is just a false accounting trick.
No racoons here. The previous bins had spring loaded flaps to keep the animals out.
Or 3) change the garbage regularly on a bin with a latching lid. (common in forested areas)
This isn’t just a random bit of forest either, it’s near a shop that’s providing the public with a bunch of disposable items like paper cups and napkins. Not providing somewhere to dispose of those is inevitability going to lead to people leaving their garbage behind.
There aren’t many wild camping spots in the UK, especially in forests. Definitely no raccoons either haha. This area would be more for walking or picnicking.
This is the reason given in Australia by Parks Victoria
Advocate for minimal-impact practices wherever you go. Many people are surprised to find no bins in national parks. Waste attracts native animals, which can change their natural behaviour and harm both natural and cultural sites, as well as your personal belongings.
Always bring rubbish bags (and one for your neighbour) and take all your rubbish home. Help educate others about the importance of leaving the park pristine, minimising your impact on the delicate balance of the ecosystem.
Have a fence, sign, benches seems pretty antithetical to LNT.
Different country, different styles I guess.
Yeah, they threw LNT straight out the window and down the open manhole with flames shooting out of it with great delight. If you search for pics of the place, claiming “leave no trace” is beyond farcical.
I feel like you want more trash cans not less. Make it easy for people to clean up after themselves
The only way this will work is if humans behave in ways that no human has ever humaned
There are countries where this is culturally how litter is managed. Japan is a fully developed example - bins are hard to come by, everyone brings their trash with them.
It can be done.
Unless they are in a car, take a walk along one of the less used roads and you will find empty food containers and piss bottles galore
If there is a bin I will use it, if not I will take it home.
If you don’t you are scum and deserve to be pilloried in the town square.
While it can be done you have to have a focus on the group over the individual like Japan for It to happen. The main issue faced in most of the countries where litter would be an issue are ones that are more indiviualistic. So you have to upend the entire culture of a country and move its focus off of self and onto the whole. Can it be done? Eventually. Will it be done? Not likely.
People who go to trails are not gaurnteed, but are more likely to care about the environment they traveled to go to. Mostly.
please clean up after yourself.
I’d give this some odds of reducing trash pollution. It can seem frustrating, but it MAY change people’s behavior in a way that reduces litter. Behavioral economics can be counterintuitive.
No. Most people just start littering when there’s no trash bins nearby.
Think of the stupidest person you know, etc etc.
They’re shit people. I take cans home to recycle because we don’t have proper recycling at my workplace.
If you operate a business that sells things in paper plates and wrappers, you certainly have a moral responsibility to have waste receptacles to collect those waste products.
The problem isn’t that a park lacks trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash bins.
The he cafe still has bins inside, they have a way to collect their refuse.
The park removed the bins since people from the cafe weee likely overfilling it.
I feel the same way, but about places that sell coffee having an obligation to provide a public bathroom.
Glares angrily at 7-11
“we don’t want to pay human beings to do the necessary work created by our business, so we’re offloading it to you.”
fwiw removing trash cans and promoting not littering is proven to reduce litter.
It’s people that suck generally
Can you cite this source? It’s my personal experience that people will just drop things on the ground if there’s not a convenient trash can.
there’s no way having fewer garbage cans results in less garbage on the ground
…huh? They want to cut down on litter by removing the convenient locations for people to dispose their would-be litter?
Fuck there are some incredibly fucking stupid people in charge of the USA right now.
Thats what they do in Japan and it suuuuucks so bad. By far my least favorite thing about the country. It’s so annoying to carry trash around and the few bins that exist are so tiny and always overflowing.
People praise Japan for cleanliness but let me tell you it’s not because of the lack of trash bins but because people genuinely care about spaces and more bins would just make that easier.
This is gospel truth and people downvoting this are delusional.
It mildly infuriates me that you can’t see the logic in taking your rubbish with you when you leave.
While this is the ideal outcome, in reality people are just going to throw their trash in the bushes.
People who do this already did even when bins were still there. Because placing rubbish into pocket or backpack is so hard!
And they should be fined for dumping.
Saying they are committed to producing no rubbish on a sign, then selling things that result in rubbish, is hypocritical.
Do you have an example of something that would be sold that had no resulting rubbish?
I can see taking things that I brought with me like granola bar wrappers and water bottles, but if you have a cafe selling cheeseburgers, fountain drinks, and coffee, it seems dumb to expect people to carry all that home rather than allowing them to throw it away at the same place they bought and consumed it.
Yeah but the Cafe does have bins inside. It’s just the park that removed the public waste bins.
You’re weird for not knowing the OP’s actual point?
It’s a cafe area; they are giving you trash with your meal/drink, not providing a bin for it, then expecting you to pack it out.
Expecting people to packout the garbage they brought with them is one thing (that still doesn’t get followed); but if you’re going to provide the public with trash, you’ve gotta give them somewhere to dispose of it.
The cafe has bins. OP amended the post admitting that they do. The bins are inside, but either way, they do exist.
Wait, so there are bins inside and they don’t want bins outside because it’s a wildlife area?
Sounds like OP’s a little lazy, this is a very understandable change
But they sell disposable items, likely for profit. They can’t have a system to dispose of trash in a responsible manner?
Sounds like they have bins inside. That is responsible no?
You have the right to purchase something, doesn’t mean you have the right of convenience.
Most of these places, at least in Canada, are strictly operated as not-for-profit establishments, with focus on as little actual litter as possible. So no plastic lids or straws, no packaging. Wooden stir sticks, brown paper bags, etc. Local produce only. While these decompose easily, it’s still unsightly, so most of Parcs Canada / SEPAQ doesn’t have bins outside either.
I’d be disappointed if this were not the way that things are being done in England.
Is only mildly annoying. Lots of people asking where the bins though.
I can see a lot of paper cups being left in tables etc
What inside?
I don’t see a mention of an inside?
Weird, when Japan does it everyone praises them. I guess us western societies are just too trashy to clean up after ourselves.
I came here to comment on Japan, haha. Almost everywhere you go, no trashcans and no trash! Their society is like a hive mind in a lot of ways, though. I’m not sure it’ll work with Rugged American Individualism®
I looked it up and they seem to still have them in train stations plus in areas where trash/recyclables is expected to be generated (convenience stores, vending machines, parks) so it seems like a bit of a stretch (also the reason for less trash cans also being a 1995 sarin gas attack).
Even just the train station bit seems like an unfair comparison for places without any sort of public transportation (where people walked/biked from home). Yeah, I can see people being more likely to hold their trash if passing receptacles is part of their planned route.
Japan takes the garbage bins away from cafes?
No they’re there, however there aren’t trash bins once you leave the food vendor. So people just finish eating and dispose the trash there. If they do carry-out, they will pack their trash for disposal at home (you’ll see a ton of people walking around with backpacks and totebags).
I’ve never been to a Japanese cafe, but knowing what I know about them from Japanese acquaintances, yeah, mostly.
They’d probably either use actual dishware that is returned and washed, or yes, expect people to bring disposable waste home with them. Everything I’ve heard is that public trash bins are not non-existent, but they are rare.
Lots of corner stores and vending machines in Japan that sell basically full meals and no trash can in sight.
I don’t think people realize that custodial staff are different than general park staff. If they have bins then they need to deal with that whole process and have at least one dedicated employee. I’d rather have to carry my trash and let the park use that money elsewhere.
For what it’s worth, I do agree it’s probably “gentrification” in the sense that the concept of carry in/carry out is more prevalent in middle class communities, mostly because they are more likely to engage in hobbies where or go to places where it’s a more prevalent part of the culture. I’m not sure non-middle class people have the same experiences/lifestyle that lead to thinking this makes sense to do.
Everyone praises them? The only times Ive heard (from westerners visiting/moving there) is that it is very annoying that there is never anywhere to throw away their trash
Different experiences then, because most people I’ve spoken to about it there and back home have talked about how clean it was despite that and commended the society for being so responsible with their waste.
Sounds to me like they just dont want to empty the bins any more. I suspect after a few months of picking rubbish off the floor, the bins will be back.
Or not and everyone will complain and stop going.
“We don’t have enough funds to make the guys do that route, what do we do? what did you say Shannon? masquerade it as taking care of the environment? that’s fantastic”
Hey ChatGPT, I’m a dork who works for a local council and we are cutting costs by removing two bins from a local forestry. Can you come up with a sign that spins the removal of these bins into a positive?
Growing up in the 60s, we saw anti-littering commercials, called PSAs (Public Service Announcements),on TV every day. Ask any older American what they remember about those PSAs, and they will say “The crying Indian.”
Today, they never show those anymore, and i am seeing young people littering as a result. I was recently in a fast food lot, and saw a car pull in, a young guy about 20 get out, and throw a bunch old fast food trash into the bushes, then walk into the restaurant. He passed a trash can next to the door on his way in, where he could have tossed his trash, but he just tossed it in the bushes instead.
I collected up the trash, and set it on the hood of his fancy hot rod.
I’ve seen plenty of similar examples in the last few years, because young people dont see those PSAs telling them not to, and even their parents havent been educated to teach them.
Idk, that was before my time and it just seems common sense to me to not litter 🤷♂️ the trash doesn’t just disappear and it will become someone else’s problem.
It feels to me a lot of people don’t care if it becomes someone else’s problem and that mentality goes through all parts of their lives.
I’ve seen mongoloids throw trash on the floor while they stood less than a foot away from the trashcan. Should’ve thrown him in the trash.
I was born in the early 90s but I saw those PSAs in school. We were taught very early that littering is not only immoral but illegal. We were pretty much scared into thinking of the environment. I like that approach. Made me respect the environment into my adulthood
One problem with outside bins is that the wildlife is naturally drawn to them and the contents can be damaging to them as well as desensitising animals to people, plus things like squirrels and birds will pull rubbish out of the bins and spread it around.
You can always take your trash with you instead of expecting someone else to take it for you. The culture of throwing shit away instead of reusing, and reducing, is so ubiquitous, that’s the infuriating thing.
The places with the fewest places to deposit one’s trash are always the ones with the most litter. Always.
If someone wants another person to adapt a behavior, from a purely practical standpoint, that person must make the other person’s job easier or it will simply not work to get them to adapt. If this wasn’t a forest (such as it is, it being the UK), the only proper thing to do would be to dump as much trash there as possible while demanding the bins back until they get the message and cave in. I could write a whole book here about how the packaging industry paid lobbyists and PR firms to put the blame on consumers for the useless crap they make existing in the first place, and shaming them into keeping it out of sight and thus out of mind. I won’t. But it’s a tale vile enough that it convinced me that there’s a time and a place for littering as protest. The woods aren’t the place.
Besides, there ARE receptacles that are critter resistant. This is an absolute cop out, and seeing how landscaped the area is, a couple of bins would hardly scar the landscape. This is pure crap. I looked the place up, and it’s NOT the kind of place where you deny people trash receptacles, nor is it the kind of place you can credibly base your argument on “we don’t want animals to get used to people”. Good lord, what a bunch of idiocy.
Pack in, Pack out.
I was walkin’ through the forest
And a sign said they removed the bins to produce less rubbish
“We kindly ask all visitors to take their litter home!”
Man, what do I look like, a garbage bin?
“To support our commitment to reducing the number of covid cases, we have elected to discontinue counting them. We kindly ask all infected to kindly die at home.”
This has been happening in New Zealand for a while. The theory seems to be that bins attract more litter and are a hazard to wildlife.
I was sceptical at first but it actually seems to work.
I fully support the choice to remove the bins. I visited a beauty spot in Scotland recently that has a coffee van in the carpark. The young couple I took there went to add their empty cups to the already overflowing bin, and were baffled when I insisted they take them to the car, which was ten steps away. “But there’s a bin!” Yes you numpties, and the wind is already spreading its contents everywhere. Be part of the solution, not the problem.
Think it’s a mentality as well.
Had a friend in high school and after the drive in we went to, I cleaned up my trash and threw it away. My friend said “why are you doing that, they pay people to do that” and proceeded to leave her trash.
Didn’t stay friends, but who the f thinks that way?
Entitled Amerikkkans… that’s who.
Pick up your own trash.
Not other people’s trash.
YOUR OWN.
That’s not how human behavior works…
Someone thinks they’re very clever and they aren’t.
Just though it on the ground
This is basically ubiquitous on many public lands, specifically here in the US. The term is “carry in, carry out.” Bins accumulate trash (obviously) which in turn is an attractant for rodents, bears, raccoons, etc. which causes its own problems. Wild animals should not be artificially fed by human trash. Trash can also be blown out of cans, or scattered by animals. Overall, especially for low traffic environments, the best plan is to have people take all their trash out with them.
TL;DR: Pack out your trash.
See how much garbage you can stack on/wedge into the sign before they put bins back there.
There is a potentially good way to do this, ensure the cafe uses minimal packaging and what packaging is used is compostable. Then just have compost bins.
Why can’t they have a dumpster with lid?
People are just going to litter if they didn’t plan ahead to bring a trash bag.
It’s like my university campus removing all ashtrays to stop people from smoking.
Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 6 days ago
I used to work for the Woodland Trust and believe that this is the right thing to do. Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow and attract unwanted pests like rats. Rats will also eat the eggs of ground nesting birds and cause other environmental issues.
If they are selling food on site then the food vendor should have a bin that their customers can use inside their cabin/cafe and dispose of the waste daily as part of the service.
Hawke@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Think I found the problem— why not do the obvious thing and empty them more often?
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Who’s gonna do it an pay for it?
abigscaryhobo@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Genuine answer here, as someone who volunteers for the parks. A lot of times the budgets are tight, depending on whose responsibility it is to clean up the area and what services are there/nearby, the staffing just isn’t available. Yeah it’s a pretty easy thing to do in theory, but in practice when it becomes “okay and 2 hours of your shift is driving out there and emptying the cans” it’s not a far leap to just “Remove the cans, make the snack stand dispose of their garbage on their own”
I mean I get it, the cans are nice but also, like you’re an adult. Throw your trash away on your own.
“But then people will throw it on the ground!” Okay then pay someone to stand out there and slap every idiot that thinks littering is okay because they couldn’t find a can in 10 seconds.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can. It’s not hard.
Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Because that would mean employing someone to empty them regularly, and as most woodland is few and far between in this country most woodland owners deem that an unnecessary expense.
Nighed@feddit.uk 6 days ago
This is right by the cafe/site office/car park though. The reception desk is about 20m to the right and staffed during daylight hours year round.
Not like it’s in the middle of nowhere.
I get your point, there are very few bins elsewhere (mostly by the other car parks) and that’s fine. It’s just that the place that gives you rubbish makes it hard to responsibly get rid of it.
Railcar8095@lemm.ee 6 days ago
Isn’t there a bin at the cafe?
Buelldozer@lemmy.today 6 days ago
May I ask the name of this place? I’d like to pull it up on Google Maps and have a look at the layout.
Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 5 days ago
It’s not like paper and plastic wrappers are heavy or bulky. Just hold onto it or put it your pocket until you get home or find a bin elsewhere.
rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 6 days ago
So empty them.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Just take your garbage home.