I feel like tech and finance bros turn to the right because bad guys who think they’re good get tired of being told by educated people that they are objectively bad guys. And instead of changing, they end up seeking spaces that will reward them for being bad guys and will allow them to ignore or disparage those offering valid criticism.
Par for the course
Submitted 4 months ago by ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net to [deleted]
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Comments
Please_Do_Not@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Hackworth@lemmy.world 4 months ago
In a culture that exacerbates hierarchy, exonerates ego, and exalts control, true humility is too painful to even consider.
Sergio@slrpnk.net 4 months ago
dude that’s awesome… it should be a meme or something…
Teppichbrand@feddit.org 4 months ago
If your values and your behavior doesn’t match, you have to either change your behavior or your values.
frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 4 months ago
They’re not bad, they’re just going on a neanderthal morality purge
FolknForage@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I think this is spot on for many
kibiz0r@midwest.social 4 months ago
He’s right about one thing: There is a serious lack of actual masculinity among our leaders.
Most public figures who try to present some form of “masculinity” are just desperate and petty, willing to sacrifice nothing to earn their status, and eager to degrade others to look better by comparison.
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves. They protect the defenseless, elevate those who are ignored, and invest in a future they won’t personally live to enjoy.
Show me a real man among you. It’s not femininity keeping you from finding one. It’s your own greed and hubris.
Dozzi92@lemmy.world 4 months ago
When I was in the military, the best Marines weren’t the ones who could lift the most or run the fastest (though sometimes they did), they were the ones who stayed up late writing up their junior Marines for awards, the ones who skipped their own lunch to teach their squad or platoon how to perform better, and just generally the ones who went out of their own way to improve everyone else’s well-being around them, and all the while keeping their mouth shut up how much they were doing for everyone else.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The whole master-apprentice thing is not really found in America anymore. It is lowkey there in academia, but there is so much admin work that even good PIs struggle. I have not really seen it in my little private industry experience. And I have no public experience to comment.
papertowels@lemmy.one 4 months ago
This comment makes me want to read “the way of kings” again…
untorquer@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Real men are also able to access their emotions, express their needs(both emotional and physical), develop and share empathy, and nurture deep relationships within their community.
Though i would argue none of what either of us said has to do with gender.
Relentlessly locking your own humanity away behind a strong man facade built on shame is one of the biggest reason these fuckers become so hateful and make “manliness” seem like such a putrid prospect.
tmyakal@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Either this comment is also misogynistic as all hell, or my mother was very masculine.
kibiz0r@midwest.social 4 months ago
Masculinity isn’t just for men. Just like femininity isn’t just for women. A healthy person has a mix of these qualities, along with many others that we don’t tend to align with a specific gender.
When I say “a real man”, I don’t mean it as an objective assessment to stick a person neatly into one of two piles. That’s not how gender works, and it’s not how being a person in general works.
What I mean is that if you’re indulging in behavior like belittling other people for fun or “cool points”, or using your power or physical strength to get what you want, and calling that “being a man”, then your idea of manhood is a mirage. If you want to aspire to something based on your male gender identity, aspire to humility, vigilance, and service to others. Those are great qualities that anyone can have, but they’re especially important for men if we’re gonna have a respectful and productive society.
xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
there’s no such thing as a “real man”… it’s all just roles society has placed upon different genders….
Lemminary@lemmy.world 4 months ago
A real man produces more than he needs
And I’m an imaginary man producing just what I need. 👻
ThomasCrappersGhost@feddit.uk 4 months ago
There is a serious lack actual masculinity among our leaders.
The problem is many people hear these words and instantly jump to toxic masculinity. Which you’re obviously not advocating for, but neither of us are “many people”.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Masculinity has been defined as toxic by default for many.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves.
A big part of the issue is men constantly being told that they are responsible for everything. So this attitude would only make the problem worse.
kibiz0r@midwest.social 4 months ago
This is why a positive kind of masculinity also needs to reject patriarchy and capitalism.
“Producing more than you take” doesn’t have to mean money. (Though I did mean money in my original comment, cuz Zuck is a greedy monster.)
Just listening to people more than you demand to be listened to. Doing chores that you know your friends and family hate. Sharing your knowledge. Cooking. Fixing things. There are so many ways you can contribute to your group that don’t take money, and don’t even take much time.
Being financially responsible and helping people when you can is important, don’t get me wrong.
But seeing your worth in purely financial terms is really limiting and unhealthy for the individual, and also tends to create perverse hierarchies inside of families.
someacnt@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I wish I were able to achieve even 0.01% of this, I am just born unable.
MutilationWave@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s ok. It’s going to suck. Real men and women could provide for you. Not that you’re not a real woman/man, but in context.
son_named_bort@lemmy.world 4 months ago
When I think of masculine energy I sure as hell don’t think of Marky Z.
return2ozma@lemmy.world 4 months ago
He seems like the type that ever since he was a kid would full on cry and make everything miserable for everyone until they just gave him his way to shut him up.
yonder@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Steering the helm of a massive advertising company that misleads and manipulates users does not seem masculine to me.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yeah, a tom of Finland character he certainly is not. Like he’s definitely masculine, but more masculine [pejorative] in the vein of a man having a midlife crisis and deciding to get into a sad pantomime of youthful masculinity. He definitely doesn’t seem the type to do hard labor to provide for his loved ones or to spend his evenings in a shed tinkering on his projects. His masculinity is not the presence of the traits our society positively associates with men and masculinity or of those that those who are attracted to masculinity find attractive or endearing, but merely a starker absence of the positive traits associated with femininity or neutrality and an absence of the negative traits of femininity.
inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Love the Tom of Finland reference I bet it went over most peoples heads
Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That over sized black T and gold chain is so absurd. Maybe I don’t follow enough influencers, but when did alt right culture appropriate last decade’s hip hop style?
Xanthrax@lemmy.world 4 months ago
He doesn’t even give off “human” energy.
Lemminary@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Dies he even give off heat?
Xanthrax@lemmy.world 4 months ago
He gives off heat when his cpu starts to overheat.
renzev@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I mean yeah he needs to cool his personality emulation chip somehow
abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
The fact that a load of billionaires are now embracing the far right to protect their arses sure seems like a familiar theme.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s crazy that they could lose 90% of everything and still have more than 99.999% of the population of the planet, yet they keep fighting to make sure they have more and more and even more.
spireghost@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
I think the mistake here is thinking it’s about “things” or material objects. Most people interface with money at a basic level: you can buy a new jacket, reliable car, a sizeable home, etc. However, at the level that you are with these billionaires, it’s no longer about having things or owning things. It’s about having more power to do things.
For example, there’s are some fun little calculators where you can calculate all the things that some could spend their money on neal.fun/spend/ www.spend-elon-fortune.com
At this point it’s an imperialist kind of mindset, where you want to own multiple corporations, properties, and show it off to your wealthy colleagues that you are the best at X. It’s probably not unlike how professional athletes will destroy their bodies with steroids to become the best in the world, just the negatives are externalized.
Empricorn@feddit.nl 4 months ago
It’s a mental illness. They have to have more power, if not money…
abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
"To speak of ‘limits to growth’ under a capitalistic market economy is as meaningless as to speak of limits of warfare under a warrior society."
- Murray Bookchin
zbyte64@awful.systems 4 months ago
How to alienate your daughter:
db2@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Narcissists don’t care about things like that unless it boosts their ego.
LaserTurboShark69@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Daughter? Sounds like major feminine energy
miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Become a Musk atear.
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I like the thought of masculine and feminine energies wafting around like medieval miasmas.
This guy is smart.
eestileib@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Up next: the return of the humoral theory of medicine!
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 4 months ago
All these feminine airs have my cholera up. I’m going to go poison myself and barf a lot.
lurklurk@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Every time I think Zuck is as pathetic as someone can be, he finds a new depth to sink to. Truly an innovator
feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What a fucking joke, he wouldn’t know masculine energy if it roughly penetrated him from behind whilst lovingly whispering in his ear about what a good boy he was.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
I assume by more masculine energy, Zuckerberg means:
- More posturing by Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Donald Trump, the US exemplars of manhood.
- Trolls, more trolls, trolls trolling trolls. People fucking with anyone else that makes them uncomfortable.
- People boasting about how rich they are, how fast their car goes, and how many women they bed. Comparisons. Leaderboards.
- Doxing. So much doxing.
- So much AI porn. So much futa AI porn.
- So much misogyny. All the misogygy. Al Misogyny. Misogyny leaderboards.
- Tons of hate speech against the targets of the week. Immigrants, trans folk, Jews Arab Muslims, libs (not liberals, neoliberals or left-wingers, libs )
Essentially Zuck wants Facebook to become 4chan/b… or 4chan/pol, only where everybody knows your name.
boonhet@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Probably. As opposed to what masculine used to mean and should mean:
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Taking responsibility for your actions
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Taking leadership if you see nobody else is going to
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Treating others with respect
Of course, in modern times, we’ve realized this has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity and rather with one’s role in society. If you want to be respectable, these are just some of the things you should be doing.
inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Why are those considered masculine traits?
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dx1@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It already is. It’s a wasteland of boomer MAGA bullshit.
QuantumSparkles@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I have to ask… do people even in that sphere who take that shit seriously actually consider Ben Fucking Shapiro (of all people) to be especially masculine??
jj4211@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You mean the man who can’t make his wife wet, and loudly proclaimed to the world that women don’t get wet down there?
JigglypuffSeenFromAbove@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Zuck: “we never let gender play a role in our hiring process.”
Also Zuck: “yeah, we need to hire more men.”
HawlSera@lemm.ee 4 months ago
It’s the old “Male is normal, Female is special” logical fallacy, he only wants to hire people who’d get hired under “Normal” circumstances
matlag@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I don’t think he even cares. He wants to appeal to MAGA’s bosses.
In 4 years, if Dems take back power, he will make a vibrant speech about the need for diversity and to tackle fake news.
ansiz@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It fits his whole revamp with the judo and working out and human haircut. I assume in the near future he’ll go on Rogan and then end up launching a podcast of his own.
Dotcom@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
He was on Joe Rogan a week or two ago
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I believe “shirtless photo on horseback” might be the next stage.
pyre@lemmy.world 4 months ago
maybe you should start with humanoid energy you fucking lizardbot
KnowledgeableNip@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
He knows he’ll never make up the loss of subscribers on the left since he’s burned those bridges so he has to double down on the far right to carry his platform.
This way he gets to compete with X for a race to the bottom and see who can gather the most shitbags to support their plateauing businesses.
Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 4 months ago
Fuck yeah, here’s hoping she’s like MacKenzie Scott ( bezos’ ex) and takes half his money and donates it all away.
DmMacniel@feddit.org 4 months ago
What even is masculine energy? Is it about being a macho man focused on fat and destruction?
Venator@lemmy.nz 4 months ago
I think what most companies actually need is more QA energy 😅
casmael@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Ahh yes big rat-penis energy from dead mark 💀 🐀
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I am speculating that all the ridiculing and questioning Mark Zuckerberg’s masculinity over the years made him so insecure that he turned to the manosphere. We only have ourselves to blame.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What is this esoteric talk about “energy”?
Last I checked most of the biggest corpos are still run by men from the last generations, with current generations still waiting around for them to die off and take their places. So the only thing Zuckerberg could be talking about is the soulless DEI tokenism corpos do to get public brownie points.
portuga@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What phase of cesar hair-do is he on? Goldy locks?
dx1@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This is dystopia
ulterno@programming.dev 4 months ago
Most companies just need more ppl that actually work rather than doing politics and profiting off of the 30% working personnel.
krashmo@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This kind of thing is an interesting topic. Obviously Zuck is a shit bag but that’s not what I’m talking about.
I’m not one to say that men are being repressed or that masculinity is under attack, although I do think elements of both of those things are true if the statements are interpreted in a generous fashion. I’ve found that people will accept the general statement that men have problems but talking about men’s issues in any detail is usually met with scorn. You can say “men have problems like everybody else” and that’s generally tolerated but if you say “X Y or Z is a problem for men” then all of a sudden you’re misogynistic or otherwise associating yourself with team white male privilege. I see this happen essentially every time the topic comes up. The vibe seems to be “we’re dealing with everyone else’s problems so we don’t have time to listen to your complaints”.
People like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate have made a career out of listening to those problems. They offer shitty solutions and horrible explanations but they’re paying attention and in return they get views from people who don’t feel like anyone else is. There are a lot of guys out there doing their best to be good people who need to feel like their problems matter to society. You don’t have to abandon the things that are important to you to listen to them. Just commiserate a bit and a lot of them will be happy to listen to your problems in return. That’s how empathy is supposed to work.
inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Is Zuck getting divorced?
Taleya@aussie.zone 4 months ago
I cannot think of a bigger cuck move than bending over to court bad faith actors and suckling at king maga’s sweaty little man nipples for $$
Vaggumon@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Probably, but he’s assuredly been cucked for years.
obscur_e@lemm.ee 4 months ago
thats what happen when you never ate a pussy
ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 4 months ago
Had a ex-friend who went real hard last year about why his masculinity has been challenged. Went deep into the manosphere language. He was extra annoying. Every convo was about how he, a white man in America, was being repressed. He started labelling random shit as masculine/feminine. Got sick this and stopped inviting him.
A few months later, I learned the divorce was finalized and he’s been sending me invites to hang with him in his bachelor pad. Nah dog you suck now.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 4 months ago
yeah and i bet that shit was the reason for the divorce. i got a friend who lost her husband down the right wing rabbithole and now she’s processing the grief of losing someone she loved to something so goddamn stupid
coyootje@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This could have been me. For the longest time I was watching right wing YT channels without really realizing it because they were hiding their messaging well under legitimate critique of the movies and shows I was no longer enjoying. My girlfriend and I got into multiple arguments over this and I could tell that this was something we’d never agree on, which makes sense of course. Eventually I managed to pull myself out by unsubscribing from these channels ocne the messaging became a lot more clear (around 2021, you can probably guess why) and since then things have been much better between us and in general.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s also very likely the divorce was the reason for the behavior. Getting lost in the sauce of that nonsense is a tragic but not unreasonable reaction to the trauma of divorce, or just being hurt by a woman. That ideology and the people who make money from it prey on weak, lost men for a reason. Thats what its designed to do.
NielsBohron@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You could be mixing up correlation and causation. The divorce could have happened for any number of reasons and the ensuing loneliness and alienation could have been what led the husband to seek validation in manosphere bullshit
parrhesia@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I bet that is really fucked up because you might spend a long, long time trying to convince yourself that he would change back or just be less of an asshole. That’s a special sort of grief where they are still living but you’re mourning who they used to be.
riskable@programming.dev 4 months ago
FYI: This is totally normal in France.
bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Any romance language country, really
hank_the_tank66@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Germany woke af by having a gender-neutral pronoun already
FanBlade@lemmynsfw.com 4 months ago
What does that have to do with a situation that’s not in France?
miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
B-b-but ToLeRaNcE!!!
Similar situation here (there is more than ine situation, ofc), but wifey’s aling for the ride too, and not in a trad wife way (they’re late 60s in age). Left them out of the pals’ xmas dinner because it’s become unbearable for everyone else.
It’s no fun losing decades-long relationships over whatever “this” is that’s happening.
wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.
What’s weird about this broader “conversation” on masculinity is I feel more masculine than ever, despite not giving a flying fuck about any of this.
I never really struggled with it except as a teen, but the older I get the less I care.
—
I still say we made a mistake with communicating to men about feminism. We kind of left people who are terrible like Andrew Tate to dominate the conversation when people shut down men’s rights groups as de facto misogynistic, and now here we are.
Rooskie91@discuss.online 4 months ago
Dudes getting divorced and then hating women are really telling on themselves.