Fruit the botanical term and fruit the culinary term are just not the same word. Similarly to how theory means something different in science and in colloquial speech. Thatâs just how language works.
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Comments
Droggelbecher@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
More people ought to learn about the programming language concept of namespaces. Generalize from that and you realize that every domain of discourse has its own namespace of words that have different meanings from those same words outside the domain.
My favourite is math which has loads of wonderfully generic-sounding terms such as rational, irrational, radical, real, imaginary, complex, group, ring, field, category, set, operator, element, and unit which all have radically different meanings from the everyday senses of those words.
jaupsinluggies@feddit.uk â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Yes, but then where would we be without all those endless squabbles about X which are easily solved by pointing out that A::X != B::X?
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
I like this.
Kids are already taught to look for âcontext cluesâ
Namespacing would require the author explicitly define the namespace.
I would also add versioning as a year/month and localization.
SpongyAneurysm@feddit.org â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
I always thought it was more like overloading, but namespaces are also a good analogy.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Botanically, thereâs no such thing as a vegetable.
Thatâs a culinary term, which seems to cover some fruits, some plant roots, some plant stems, some plant leaves, and some plant flowers.While culinary fruits are the other botanical fruits, and a few flowers (figs are weird)
Enekk@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
The legal decision is important for a slew of reasons including taxation, SNAP benefits, etc. The decision was less about science and more about the reality of how tomatoes are used in our society.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
⌠Cool? I was more pointing out the issues with the assumptions the meme was making
bathing_in_bismuth@sh.itjust.works â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Now I get why some (a ?) states declared pizza a veggie or something like that? Like if vegetable is a culinary term it makes sense you could classify pizza as a vegetable. But like, why the fuck is law declaring what anything is culinary?
ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
To get around legal requirements to include vegetables in school lunches
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Speculating here, but taxes are one reason.
Almost all the rules about what counts as wine, beer, whiskey, etc. comes from some country making definitions for tax purposes.
FooBarrington@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Because those culinary definitions are used for other laws, e.g. laws about what food schools can give to children.
bennypr0fane@discuss.tchncs.de â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Consider that in German (and probably a ton of other languages too), there are just two different words for the botanical and the culinary definition of fruit, so you can have namespacing built in to the language
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Botanically, sure, but from a culinary perspective theyâre used like a vegetable.
just2look@lemmy.zip â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
I donât think vegetable is a botanical term. So fruit and vegetable arenât really mutually exclusive.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Yeah I mean, mushrooms get lumped into the vegetable category most of the time and theyâre a fungus!
jaybone@lemmy.zip â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle. But she would also be my grandmother.
Gyroplast@pawb.social â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Thatâs just science as applied by engineers.
Valmond@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
As they say, intelligence is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
(Thatâs the saying, but IMO itâs wisdom to know and intelligence to not do it, maybe Iâm mixing things up).
TheRealKuni@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
From Dungeon Crawler Carl:
I grumbled a bit about that three in intelligence. Yeah, I never did too great in math, but I never considered myself a slobbering idiot, either. I could fix most anything electrical after studying it for a bit. My friend Billy Maloney, now that guy was an idiot. Just last week weâd come out of a bar, and heâd peed right on a copâs bicycle while the cop was giving someone else a ticket for drunk and disorderly. That guy deserved an intelligence of three, maybe two.
. . .
After I complained about my intelligence score to Mordecai, using the Billy example, he said, âIntelligence told you that bike belonged to a police officer. Wisdom told you not to urinate upon it.
gofsckyourself@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Yeah, it seems youâve heard a version adapted to explain the different D&D stats.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Knowledge and wisdom is the one Iâve heard before.
kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
This is dumb, botanically tomatoes are a fruit doesnât preclude them being vegetables because vegetable isnât a botanical term at all. Tomatoes are fairly sweet but they have more culinarily in common with vegetables. Nutritionally Iâm not positive but itâs a separate issue.
Regardless the supreme court decision was regarding tariffs/imports/customs which makes sense to classify it simply by the way in which people consume it. People eat tomatoes as a vegetable, just like we eat zucchini and cucumber as vegetables despite them all also being fruit.
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Obviously fruit/vegetable should be broken down into whether or not you can just make a sauce with it.
Tomatoes: easily broken0 down into a sauce Apples: guess what? saucable
Zucchini: not easily sauced. Cucumber: donât even think about it!
kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Hilarious but weâre gonna end up with a few weird things like jackfruit and bananas becoming vegetables.
Hagdos@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Now I really want to try making a zucchini-cucumbersauce
Asswardbackaddict@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Pretty sure itâs so giving ketchup to school kids constitutes a serving of vegetables.
kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
No that was 90 years later as school budgets were cut further and further until they were using things like pickle relish as a required vegetable. Our public school system is an embarrassment.
PapaCabbage@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Vegetables do not exist. Well, they exist as a culinary thing. Thereâs just no scientific/botanical definition of what makes something a vegetable.
kameecoding@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
What about Stephen Hawking?
chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Stephen Hawking is a pile of ash, not a vegetable.
buttnugget@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
What about him?
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
I appreciate the message, but I find this presentation style to be unbearable, like a shitty clickbait version of a TED talk: fast cuts with exaggerated audience reactions, playing hide the ball with the actual information being presented. And then they took what I imagine is a normal studio production designed for normal TV screens and cropped it into vertical video, published on Youtube as a short. Gross.
melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Tbf itâs a comedy show, it being informative is mostly a bonus. This one is rare for being factual and not about why we should nuke the moon or which cartoon characters are invited to the cookout or something like that.
homura1650@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Iâm going to take this as an opportunity to point out that bees are a type of fish in California.
SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
You werenât kidding!
California enforces many wildlife regulations. CESA, or the California Endangered Species Act, is designed to keep animal and plant life from extinction. The law covers any threatened âbird, mammal, fish, amphibian, reptile, or plant.â
Insects werenât mentioned in the specific actâs wording. However, a separate California regulation legally defines fish as âa wild fish, mollusk, crustacean, invertebrate, amphibian, or part, spawn, or ovum of any of those animals.â
So, are bees actually fish? Yes, because all invertebrates are according to California law. The broad definition of fish allows activists to fight for insect survival.
The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has clarified that âIt was not believed necessary to include the term invertebrate in the original legislation because âfishâ is defined in the Fish and Game Code to include âinvertebratesââŚâTalk about by-the-book!
Hupf@feddit.org â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
buttnugget@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Good.
TomMasz@piefed.social â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
There are two big grocery chains where I live. One puts the olives in the canned vegetable aisle, the other puts them in the canned fruit aisle. I keep forgetting which does which and end up in the wrong aisle.
MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Treat yourself next time you find them to a jar of kalamatas.
wabasso@lemmy.ca â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
The fruit classification seems insane to me. Maybe Iâm unfamiliar with dishes that use it as a sweet?
TomMasz@piefed.social â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Botanically, fruits don't have to be sweet. It's anything that's a seed carrier of some kind. Vegetables are other plant parts that don't contain seeds, more or less. It. Culinary usage takes a different approach, hence the different aisles.
Not sure about beans, I don't usually buy canned beans.
WILSOOON@programming.dev â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Fun fact, the vatican classifies capybaras as fish
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
For lent-related purposes, I presume? Same as beavers.
starlinguk@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Squirrels too.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
TIL the vatican approves of squirrel stew on fridays.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Either weâre all fish, whales and dolphins are fish, or nothing is fish. All three positions are perfectly justifiable depending on your critieria, so take your pick.
cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
merc@sh.itjust.works â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
From Mr. Lovenstein whose website unfortunately doesnât seem to work, except to redirect you to Meta-owned socials. Ugh.
y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Arenât strawberries nuts?
merc@sh.itjust.works â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Yeah man, theyâre completely nuts!
woodenghost@hexbear.net â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Yes, fruit is a botanical category, but vegetable is not.
Kolanaki@pawb.social â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
All fruits are vegetables, but not a vegetables are fruit.
Vegetable = any edible plant part.
Fruit = Ovary of a flowering plant that carries the seeds.
foggianism@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
I remember watching a YT video once about a legislative move of a US county to declare the number Pi to be exactly 3.
bleistift2@sopuli.xyz â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
*State. It was Indiana. * 3.2.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFNjA9LOPsg â How Pi was nearly changed to 3.2 - Numberphile
vane@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Not unique because EU also classifies tomatoes as vegetables.
Is the tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
The classification of fruit and vegetables can be based
on various approaches â botanical, agronomical,
culinary â thus resulting in different definitions. For
example, the tomato is botanically a fruit, but it is
commonly considered a vegetable from both the
agronomical and the culinary points of view.
The facts and figures presented in this briefing follow
Eurostatâs definitions based on the farm management
and agronomical practices, according to which the
term âfresh vegetableâ refers to annual (or, rarely,
biennial) horticultural crops, and the term âfruitâ refers
to perennial crops.
Following this approach, tomatoes are included in the
main statistical aggregate of vegetables, as well as
melons, water melons and strawberries, which are
commonly considered and consumed as fruit.quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
I wonder if in other romance languages is the same, in Spanish and Catalan the two definitions are distinguished by being masculine or feminine. Fruto/fruit being masculine is the botanical fruit and fruta/fruita is the culinary fruit.
How is it in other romance languages?
Railcar8095@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Almost, but not quite. Fruto and fruta are not two genders of the same word, but two different words, with different sources words (fruto fructus and fruta fructa)
Meanings are very similar, so thereâs a lot of mixup.
quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Youâre completely right, they are two different words. For me that distinction was so clear that I never considered that what I wrote could be interpreted as two genders of the same word, that would make no sense.
I didnât know the origins though, cool.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Is there even a botanical definition of vegetables?
stray@pawb.social â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
No. What is or isnât a vegetable is determined entirely by whether we collectively consider any given plant or plant part a food item.
Arfman@aussie.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
And we laughed when some pope declared the capybara is a fish
ilikecoffee@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
When⌠what? đ
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Capybara are fish, so are bees, because fish donât actually exist.
The levels of validity may vary, but everything I said there is true in one form or another.
Zerush@lemmy.ml â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
They are vegetables
friendlymessage@feddit.org â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
They are both, itâs not contradictory
kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
This is because âvegetableâ is purely a culinary term. Thereâs no botanical definition of a vegetable. Tomatoes are berries, which is a type of fruit, from a botanical standpoint. So are cucumbers. Theyâre both vegetables from a culinary standpoint. Lettuce is a leaf. Broccoli is a flower. Carrots are roots. Celery is a stalk. All vegetables culinarily.
infuziSporg@hexbear.net â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Distinction is inventing a fruit salad that a variety of tomato can fit into.
lemmur@szmer.info â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
True wisdom
einlander@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
So tomatoes are trans?
sirico@feddit.uk â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Pizza is a salad according to your legal system
PrimeMinisterKeyes@leminal.space â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Thatâs a wrap.
Kirsche_z@lemmy.blahaj.zone â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
[deleted]Remavas@programming.dev â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
The Supreme Court was fully aware of the technical term:
Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in the common language of the people, whether sellers or consumers of provisions, all these are vegetables which are grown in kitchen gardens, and which, whether eaten cooked or raw, are, like potatoes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, cauliflower, cabbage, celery, and lettuce, usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meats which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits generally, as dessert.
The attempt to class tomatoes as fruit is not unlike a recent attempt to class beans as seeds, of which Mr. Justice Bradley, speaking for this Court, said:
âWe do not see why they should be classified as seeds any more than walnuts should be so classified. Both are seeds, in the language of botany or natural history, but not in commerce nor in common parlance. On the other hand, in speaking generally of provisions, beans may well be included under the term âvegetables.â As an article of food on our tables, whether baked or boiled, or forming the basis of soup, they are used as a vegetable, as well when ripe as when green. This is the principal use to which they are put. Beyond the common knowledge which we have on this subject, very little evidence is necessary or can be produced.â
Nix v. Hedden, 149 U.S. 304 (1893)
So this is how the Supreme Court could do this: they were fully aware but reasonably decided tariff laws should be based on ordinary meaning.
TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
wow whoever made this post is SO smart
psycho_driver@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Vibe judging.
quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
What about a bell pepper and an aubergine?
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
aubergine
Doesnât exist in the US
quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Oh right, they call it eggplant. Right?
Stern@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
en.wikipedia.org/âŚ/Toy_Biz,_Inc._v._United_States
Also the X-men arenât human. Kinda makes the court system feel like the baddies tho
ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
âThere is nothing more American than shooting a man in this Walmart of a world.â
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Ketchup lobby in full swing
Bloomcole@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Americans donât eat vegetables
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Okay, but the ruling is totally sensible inasmuch as it applies to âpurposes of tariffs, imports and customsâ. Tomatoes by and large arenât being imported for their botanical value; theyâre being used for food. This ruling exists so corporations canât âum ackshuallyâ their way out of paying their fair share.
But thatâs too sensinle; in reality, this unanimous ruling that I never bothered to spend five seconds researching independently (I am very intellectually superior) was just âle Americans uneducated ecksdeeâ.
oo1@lemmings.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
âFruit de la mereâ is obviously just some attempted tax dodge.
BenVimes@lemmy.ca â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Assuming you were aiming for the French phrase for âseafoodâ, I think you meant âfruit de mer.â
âFruit de la mereâ would translate to, âfruit of the mother.â
Kaput@lemmy.world â¨2⊠â¨weeks⊠ago
Or maybe dodging the no meat Friday of the Catholic Church. ?