Why is the progress pride flag so poorly designed (especially the intersex progress pride flag)? Will it be redesigned?

Submitted ⁨⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨hddsx@lemmy.ca⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I really don’t like the design of the progress pride flag, and I couldn’t really put my finger on it until I saw this: nava.org/good-flag-bad-flag

For reference, here is the flag I’m referencing as “bad flag” Image

And here is the original: Image

So, the original has too many colors, but it’s the colors of the rainbow. In order. It’s recognizable from really far away, and it’s dead simple to draw.

With the Intersex flag, that’s 14 colors. There are three shades of “purple”. The circle won’t be visible from far away. The chevrons are too thin to be very recognizable from far away.

It’s not like there aren’t good pride flags. Like there are AMAZING ones: Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

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Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I think it’s basically just “feature creep.” Too many ideas trying to be crammed into one symbol. And what’s annoying, to me, is that the rainbow by itself was already supposed to represent everyone. That’s why it is a rainbow.

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- mienshao@lemm.ee ⁨24⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  Why is this upvoted so much? Do you know anything about the Pride flag? Each color represented a particular concept (e.g., sex, sunlight, nature). The colors mean something and weren’t just a catch-all concept to “represent everyone.” Like you’re just saying shit lol. The fact that I see this dumbass discourse EVERY YEAR tells me that maybe it’s not just aesthetics that folks are complaining about, I think some people are bitches and don’t wanna make room. The Progress Pride flag is great and makes clear that it really is for everyone, not just gay men. Get over yourself fr.
  
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Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
It was poorly designed ever since they added the chevrons. The six colour pride flag was already pushing it with having six colours, but it pulled it off well and made it work. But anything else just screws it up.

Personally, I think adding intersex, transgender, black people(???) makes it seem as if they WEREN’T included in the original. I was always under the impression that the 🏳️‍🌈 flag included the whole LGBTQ+ groupings

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Yermaw@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Thats way too busy. Should definitely just keep the rainbow flag. Not every little niche needs specific representation, just have the rainbow as a catchall for any kind of deviation from heterosex

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- Railison@aussie.zone ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I thought the rainbow was supposed to mean it encompassed everyone.
  
  The colours on the flag apparently weren’t sufficiently inclusive so perhaps this should be the next flag:
  
  Image
  
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  - mienshao@lemm.ee ⁨20⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    God this website is just like reddit. Dumbasses just saying shit. No, the original Pride flag had 8 colors, and each color had a specific meaning. It wasn’t just “to encompass everyone.” Like what the hell, lemmy? Why are we doing bogus discourse on here too? Every year I gotta deal with a bunch of fucking straights dumping on the Progress Pride flag—seriously go fuck yourselves.
    
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  - Draegur@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    this fails to capture the grades of saturation.
    
    Here is every color in the RGB (#000000-#FFFFFF) color space arranged sequentially on a Hilbert curve (but scaled down to 512x512)
    
    Image
    
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  - cecilkorik@piefed.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I would absolutely and unironically fly this flag, although to be even more inclusive it also needs an alpha layer. Perhaps it should be a cube? Actually even that might not be inclusive enough, we need more dimensions. BRB I need to figure out how to attach a tesseract to my flagpole, I guess I'll need some kind of gordian knot?
    
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  - Asetru@feddit.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Black and white are pretty overrepresented there though. Turning this into a sphere might help?
    
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- phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Wasn’t the entire idea of the rainbow flag to just say “this includes everyone”, to be inclusive?
  
  Then people started “well red is this, yellow is that, green is that …” Making the entire thing as exclusive as can be, now requiring a color and or symbol for each and every tiny different identity they were trying to be
  
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- Kaboom@reddthat.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Imo, the rainbow flag is perfectly inclusive. By focusing on one minority, you make it less diverse and less inclusive.
  
  Rainbow flag is best
  
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- saltesc@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  They all sprung up in that period where flags were trendy. Every little camp had to have one to feel like a singled-out tribe—and, no, this isn’t just kink flags. This meant many would be flag designers overnight.
  
  The result is there’s some really fugly designs out there in the wild now and the idiots can’t go back. But most people are over flag phase now, so you’re unlikely to ever see this and most others out in the wild.
  
  Nothing fails more at its job than a pride flag that people have no idea what is. It’s almost irony.
  
  And is this one ugly? Oh, yes. Enough to turn a person straight.
  
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- november@lemmy.vg ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  deviation from heterosex
  
  Totally normal words to say. BTW trans and intersex people can still be straight.
  
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  - Yermaw@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Better get it on the flag then ig
    
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- hddsx@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Here’s the thing though, I know this is an ally flag, but it’s like they never considered symbols:
  
  Image
  
  Ignore the really bad black and white background for a second.
  
  Imagine the left side of the shape is an homage to the original pride flag and the right side is WHATEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IN IT. Uniform clean design with representation. Easy to draw for the layman (fill both sides in with rainbow if you want), and easy to add specific representation
  
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FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
You are judging work by somebody who doesn’t feel compelled to follow guidelines made by other people with those very same guidelines. Those other people looked much more closely at flags for geographical entities, not movements, to come up with their guidelines. No one is required to follow them or retroactively abide by them. They are a great style guide but not the law.

Every flag serves a purpose. This flag’s purpose is to show representation by color and design for everyone in the community. It’s was the point to be busy.

Why don’t they just stick with the rainbow flag? Because the idea of the rainbow encompassing everyone was made at a time when gay and lesbians came out with pride but many of the letters that abbreviate that community today were still marginalized more harshly, maybe even within homosexual circles. They weren’t all suddenly anthropists and free from discriminatory points of view. Development of ideas and communities takes time. And that’s why an artist took ideas from many different flags that were created over time and combined them into one. It is eye catchy and instantly recognizable, even at a medium distance still.

I don’t find the result aesthetically pleasing either. But I recognize a) that wasn’t the point of it and b) I’m not a member of the LGBTQ+ community. If from within that community a movement rises to change the flag into something else, by all means. Other than that my design opinions - and I suspect many other ones in this thread - are largely academic and frankly irrelevant.

Good flag bad flag is not the gospel. Take it as a starting point for new designs but don’t scrutinize all existing flags by it.

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november@lemmy.vg ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
“Good Flag Bad Flag” is a bunch of people’s opinions. It’s not any kind of official flag rule book, because there is no such thing.

I think the progress pride flag is fine.

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SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
youtu.be/r3fD5FPQBtI

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- tamal3@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  OHIO!!
  
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- jws_shadotak@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Haha I came here to link this. One of my favorite videos.
  
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- hddsx@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Oh god please no
  
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FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Americans love to subdivide themselves, and that’s especially true for activists. The flag reflects that.

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southsamurai@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I doubt it’ll ever be redesigned.

The reason it’s badly designed as is, is that people wanted specific inclusion into the primary symbol. There’s really no way to change a rainbow; it’s the standard spectrum of visible light being used as a symbol of everyone in their diversity being part of a group.

To be any more inclusive, you have to put things on top of the already inclusive rainbow. A corner piece or an inset is the only way to do that that isn’t horrible looking no matter what it is.

The chevrons from the side are at least visually balanced, though not well chosen colorwise. Then again, the representative colors weren’t chosen with being added to a flag in the first place.

Once you start changing an established symbol rather than just coming up with a new one, design goes out the window. It’s no longer cohesive because it can’t be. It’s like the difference between someone planning a tattoo that covers their arm, and someone getting a few dozen tattoos on their arm. Shoving things together without a plan ahead of time is airways going to be less visually pleasing.

But, visual pleasance isn’t what the flag is for, so maybe it’s more effective than something planned from the beginning. I dunno, but the fact that it isn’t “just” a rainbow does mean you can’t mistake it for someone liking rainbows in general, so that could be a benefit of that change.

I don’t agree that the original rainbow flag has too many colors though. If you don’t have the standard color spectrum there, it isn’t a rainbow to most people’s minds, so it would be worse design. The standard ROYGBV is standard for a pigment rainbow for a good reason.

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- hddsx@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’m not advocating for removing the rainbow. You could literally “cut” a big rectangle in the middle and just have a different color background with extra things, paying homage to the original rainbow flag and having center balance. The only good thing I have to say about the chevrons are that it establishes vertical and horizontal orientation.
  
  I’ll have to mull over your statement about being more effective that something planned from the beginning.
  
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db2@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Flags are stupid in the first place though. All flags, it’s nothing to do with these specifically.

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- FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Agreed.
  
  Though I do think that if progressive-minded people were more apt to fly the American flag at protests, it would be harder to criticize them.
  
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muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Who owns the intellectual property of these flags?

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- Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I believe the progress one is less open than the classic six striped
  
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Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
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- Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Organic developments of virtue signalling by corpos, I found.
  
  I think you can display two flags- the normal generic pride one and then whatever subgroup you identify with (trans, lesbian, non binary, etc)
  
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