Is there something like “trans smart”?
What's the best way to respond to someone who says "transracial is just as valid as transgender"?
Submitted 9 hours ago by Tiffany1994@lemmy.cafe to [deleted]
Comments
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 44 minutes ago
actionjbone@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
Block them.
frenchfryenjoyer@lemmings.world 4 hours ago
“You are wrong. Gender and race are two different things. Transgender people have been around since time began, transracial was invented few years ago to appropriate and diminish transgender people’s experiences. ciao”
but tbf it seems like that person’s tryna start shit so I’d just block em
throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 4 hours ago
Transgender is more comparable to Naturalization.
You can become an American, British, Canadian, German, Japanese, or Chinese, in terms of Citizenship/Nationality, but you can’t just magically change from White to Black or to Asian, or vice versa.
toomanypancakes@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
The best way to respond is to disregard them, block and move on. Transracial is an actual thing, but it refers to people of one race adopted by another. Transracial ala Dolezal is just a troll to attack trans people, no different from attack helicopters.
Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 hours ago
It’s not even a race, it’s usually a community with a different culture, so the entire term is invalid. And humans are one species with no races, despite this we keep the divisions that the less educated from history created.
amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
transracial adoption doesn’t imply that the child’s race is being changed but that the adopting family is of a different race than them. it’s usually meant to highlight the way white parents adopt Black children to be used as slave labor.
we keep the divisions who’s we? this is dangerous and is implying that the only reason racism keeps being an issue is because Black people refuse to move on. only we as whites have the privilege to ignore the racial caste system and pretend like nothing is going on
garbagebagel@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Don’t even know if I’d call that transracial, that’s just a person who is of one ethnicity but was raised in a different culture than one might expect for someone who looks like them. There’s no “transitioning” happening there.
peteyestee@feddit.org 5 hours ago
Just don’t have conversation about this stuff at all. You can rarely change a person’s mind.
I used to try talking about politics and things in my rural town but it’s pointless. In America it’s more like a drug people use, they like the rush they get from the drama. And most the time no one is saying anything original, it like they just spout of market sound bites.
It might sound counter productive to not fight for something like that. Just live your life and understand life an humanity is chaos, to try to change people is like trying turn the sun into an icecube. You can’t fuck with the universe.
Almacca@aussie.zone 6 hours ago
Sounds like someone just looking to pick a fight. Disengage.
That said, I reckon as long as they’re not hurting anyone, people can be whatever they like.
BassTurd@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Their argument indirectly hurts transgender people. It’s akin to when BLM (the movement, not the corrupt organization) was big and to counter it, conservatives parroted All Lives Matter. I’d say using the term transracial is arguably worse, because it’s all bullshit, while technically All Lives Matter is true, but it’s bad faith argument. I personally feel it’s the duty of rational people to fight against that sort of speak.
Almacca@aussie.zone 2 hours ago
And you don’t engage with bad faith arguments. Just tell them to fuck off and grow a brain.
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I would say never disengage. We’ve all lost so much disengaging especially if the argument is difficult. It leaves the argument unchallenged and if you can’t answer it and you feel strongly about trans issues what did you think someone casually viewing it would think.
We need better arguments and we need honesty. If it’s a good argument, it’s a good argument denying it out of feels only weakens the entire thing.
ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
You can't rationally debate someone out of a position they didn't reach through rational consideration.
Almacca@aussie.zone 6 hours ago
My second paragraph covered that, I thought.
Jobe@feddit.org 9 hours ago
They don’t appear to understand the difference between cultural and gender identity. I’d try this:
“If a white person of european descent were raised from birth by a Sentinel Island tribe, would they be culturally european?”
The answer is obviously no, illustrating that the cultural identity of a person depends on the culture the person was raised in. I don’t know how gender identity works, but clearly how someone is raised has little to do with it.Saleh@feddit.org 8 hours ago
Problem is that “race” isn’t just cultural. How you will be treated definitely depends on how other people perceive your “race” and subsequently it will shape your life reality.
That person you gave as an example? In the US, Canada or most European countries he will be treated better than an actual Citizen born and raised in the respective country who is perceived as “black” or “brown”.
SaltSong@startrek.website 7 hours ago
Problem is that “race” isn’t just cultural. How you will be treated definitely depends on how other people perceive your “race” and subsequently it will shape your life reality
But surely how you will be treated definitely depends on how other people perceive your “gender” and subsequently it will shape your life reality?
Everything you described up there sounds exactly like “cultural.”
amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 hours ago
culture and ethnicity have nothing to do with race. race is based on phenotype
Taleya@aussie.zone 6 hours ago
“No it’s not, and you know it”
Feel free to throw in some "dickhead"s as well, if they’re gonna come in bad faith you don’t have to be polite. Talk garbage, expect pain
UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
As someone who isnt qualified to answer any trans related question: just let them be as long as they’re not being a jerk
There are bigger fish to fry. There probably are people out there who fully think they’re a different race. Who’s to say their feelings are invalid while others feelings are.
ryannathans@aussie.zone 4 hours ago
Either people can express how they feel or they can’t, and I’d rather people be able to express how they feel
devolution@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
I’d respond, “Rachel Dolezal was never shot by the police” and “Michael Jackson did not become an honorary white person just because he tried to be one.”
amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 hours ago
ironically the assumption that Michael was trying to become white is both racist and ableist. he was suffering from vitiligo which led him to use skin-lightening prescription creams to cover up the uneven blotches of color caused by the disability.
devolution@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
And the wigs? Vitiligo means uneven splotches. He was fully white from head to toe from bleaching.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
This person is not arguing in guys faith and is just looking to make trouble. Engaging with people like that is as frustrating as it is futile.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
Walk away.
People want to troll. Don’t feed trolls.
Witchfire@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Gender is mutable, race isn’t
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
I am not saying they are equal, but I don’t understand the difference since gender and race are both social constructs that start with physical differences.
amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
gender identity has nothing to do with physical appearance. it has to do with what you identify as. a Black trans woman can choose to transition socially but can’t “transition” into being white. she’d have to do a body transplant for that since race is strictly based on perceived phenotype not self-identification. the reason why whites can’t transition races is because the racial oppression only goes one way, like a pyramid. white people invented the racial caste system so it’d be impossible for us to oppress ourselves
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 hours ago
Race is an extremely unscientific way to catagorize human beings, and it’s no wonder these people claim to be trans racial instead of trans ethnic, the more scientific, cultural, and hereditary definition of ethnicity means they’d have no real arguement to claim an ethnicity they were born and/or raised in but the loose political definition of race gives them lots of wiggle room.
amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
white people stop pretending like we live in a post-racial society challenge
BombOmOm@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
tell them race isnt real
Regardless of culture/ethnicity: two asians have a baby, you get an asian baby.
Regardless of culture/ethnicity: two slavs have a baby, you get a salvic baby.
Race is most certainly real.
wuzzlewoggle@feddit.org 4 hours ago
To quote the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on Race (human categorization):
Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partly based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.
Allero@lemmy.today 6 hours ago
Slavs are not a race, but ethnic group.
Two Koreans have a baby, the baby is Korean. Indian and Japanese have a baby, and you got something wildly different from either.
Sure, a Black person looks different from White, but within both there is so much variation that it doesn’t make much sense to group them so roughly.
yesman@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
You conflate being Asian (a resident of a continent) with Slavic (a cultural group). So what is race? A coordinate, or a cuisine?
Race is so unreal that you can’t even keep the lore straight in your own head.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Don’t waste your time, if someone is claiming transracialism then they are way too far gone and it’s not your job to understand or fix people that can’t be fixed or understood. Every interaction with that person will equate to a net loss on your life and time, they will hit the wall of reality eventually or die a joke.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
I’m confused. Wouldn’t transracial just be “mixed”? Like one parent is white, one parent is black.
Mixed baby.
Never heard someone refer to it as “transracial”.
Tiffany1994@lemmy.cafe 9 hours ago
Transracial in this context is people identifying as different races, like Rachel Dolezal
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Never heard of that name before, so I googled it. Holy shit. Guys, if you haven’t heard of Rachel Dolezal, google it. It is a WILD read.
It reminds me of this local wrestling character. “Malcolm Farrakhan”. A combination of the names Malcolm X and Louis Farrakhan. Played by a 90lbs 5’2 white guy, who surrounded himself with a group of big muscular black guys. One of which you might remember from WWE in The Nexus as “Micheal Tarver”.
Well, Malcolm Farrakhan was as white as could be, which was the whole joke. He didn’t do blackface (thank god), but his whole schtick was screaming “I AM A VERY LIGHT SHADE OF BLACK!!! I HAVE BLACK HERRITAGE!!!” meanwhile the crowd laughs at the absurdity, as a group of 4-5 black guys all act like they fully believe him.
Wrestling is weird, and not meant to be taken seriously.
But this Rachel Dolezal essentially did the exact same thing a decade later, except in real life. Just less cartoonish about it.
Which is pretty fucked up.
Dagwood222@lemm.ee 8 hours ago
Don’t engage with them.
sthetic@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
I’m no expert on either topic. But I believe humans basically start off as female in the womb, and either become male or don’t. And there are many intersex conditions. The body responds to hormones typically associated with either sex. So gender is fluid in a biological sense. If someone transitions to male, female or nonbinary, they already kind of contained that potential.
However, race is a social construct, usually based on heritage as well as biological appearance. So it’s hard to say how much biology is really involved. Does the human body contain the ability to be any race? Or to cultivate an appearance that prompts other humans to socially categorize you as one race or the other?
Maybe for people who are mixed race, there is a sort of spectrum available to them. They likely know how to present themselves in a way that gets them categorized as one race or the other.
But otherwise, not really. If you’re White, and you say, “I identify as Black,” the question might be: do you have Black heritage? If you don’t, you can’t really create it out of thin air. There wasn’t a situation while you were in the womb where various hormones could have influenced you to appear more Black than you do. If your parents are both White, they were going to have a White baby, no matter what.
If you’re assigned female at birth, and you say, “I identify as male,” then cool! Your body already has the capability to become hormonally male. You can socially identify as male. Any human, of any race, has this potential. Any two parents could have a baby that is any sex or gender, depending on various factors.
SaltSong@startrek.website 7 hours ago
So, as a white person, I cannot pass as black, so I can never expect people to treat me like I’m black?
Don’t get me wrong, I think the idea is silly, but all the arguments I’ve seen in this thread are a word-swap away from being a bad argument against transgender people.
What’s the essential difference?
Windex007@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
I’m uncomfortable with the idea that the only reason that being trans is valid is because of biological factors.
If we could construct a human that came into existence without being Female at some gestational point, you gonna tell them they can’t be trans? If someone has a thyroid problem such that they their body CAN’T handle a sex hormone, you gonna tell them they can’t be trans?
I feel like we’re looking for a 9-D chess play when a 1-D play is sufficient: you say you’re trans, you’re trans.
sthetic@lemmy.ca 7 hours ago
Good points, and I think we generally agree. I definitely didn’t mean to exclude anyone in those real or hypothetical situations you mentioned. To me, those examples are more about showing how gender is, or can be, biologically fluid. There are many “odd” situations that aren’t binary. So amongst the many unusual ways that sex can occur biologically, “male brain in a female body” or “I reject the concept of gender entirely” are valid and believable.
I agree with your last point as well, but in the context of this post, would you tell Rachel Dolezal that she says she’s Black, so she’s Black? I guess I was trying to find some sort of difference between gender and race identity, the way the question was posed.
I’m definitely not claiming to have an unassailable argument, so thanks for responding with good points.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
If you’re actually being sincere, you might want to ask people how to articulate your view, you’d have to let them know what your view is though. Or ask for peoples opinion on the question.
Tiffany1994@lemmy.cafe 9 hours ago
My view is transracial isn’t valid and this person is trying to dogwhistle. I’ve already blocked this person, and now they’re going after my friend saying my friend is transphobic because they disagreed with them about transracial being a thing.
Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 hours ago
You don’t. That’s not even a dogwhistle, it’s outright racism and transphobia, and isn’t worth responding to any more than the normal flavors of racist. Report, block, and (for mods) ban.
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 4 minutes ago
Transracial doesn’t exist because “Race” in the context that they want to use it doesn’t exist.
Genetically there’s only one “race”; that’s the human race. If they want to identify as a different culture, it’s purely a cosmetic cultural thing, not biological or genetic. Whereas as being Transgender is biological. Therefore, you can safely tell people like Rachel Dolezal to fuck off and go back to fifth period science class.