Vegans are unwilling to come to terms with the fact that they aren’t special. Taking honey is fine. Bees aren’t going anywhere any time soon. You know what? Taking honey had no downside for society. There is sooo much other stuff to worry about. Have you heard about our Lord’s, and Savior: Corpse Bees! An obscene amount in cemeteries, and grave yards. Can’t wait for some for you to get offended. Yes, the journey of most animals/insects is tragic. I like having the ability to travel cost to coast in hours on a full stomach. Until my belly aches.
I'm right and the other vegans are wrong
Submitted 7 hours ago by Grail@multiverse.soulism.net to [deleted]
https://multiverse.soulism.net/static/media/posts/N2/Lp/N2LpuSPyRf8ZE6G.jpg
Comments
Canis_76@feddit.nl 5 minutes ago
Redditmodstouchgrass@lemmy.zip 49 minutes ago
They work for each other, Morty!
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com 9 minutes ago
That sounds like slavery with… extra… steps
OwOarchist@pawb.social 7 hours ago
The fun part is that this doesn’t even tell me which side of the honey debate you’re on.
ccunning@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Not a vegan but I am surprised to learn there is a debate amongst vegans about honey.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
Honey is an animal byproduct, so technically it is non-vegan, but I think that’s kind of pedantic because the bees (ideally) aren’t harmed by the apiaries, and the relationships is more of symbiosis rather than exploitation.
I’ve tried explaining this to vegans and they get really hostile about how apiaries are bee slavery and we need to abolish all forms of subjugation and exploitation, and that I’m a colonialist pig for not seeing it that way.
They also talk about some of the problems with large-scale apiary practices. But those problems are very much known within beekeeping communities, and the average small-time beekeeper is as upset as any vegan about giant corporate monocultures spreading parasites and diseases.
The beekeepers are also very active in trying to solve that problem by regulating large-scale apiary practices, monitoring bee colonies, medicating, funding (and participating in) research, etc… All stuff that most vegans couldn’t be bothered to do.
It’s a bit like being against backyard chickens because Tyson and Perdue are an evil industrial ag duopoly.
9point6@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
I’m not at all, vegan as a personal trait is a bit of a broad church these days.
There’s the people that are mostly motivated by the not-killing-animals thing
Then there’s the ones doing it predominantly for environmental reasons
Then you’ve got the ones doing it for various health reasons
Then you’ve got people doing it predominantly for cost reasons (fewer here, given vegan is still treated as a luxury aspect in a lot of food categories)
Those groups do not have to overlap in views at all. It’s entirely expected for there to be disagreement and purity test drama given that IMO
kestrel7_7@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
I’ve known people who called themselves vegan and still ate fish, there are basically no rules
lime@feddit.nu 6 hours ago
yeah the fda classifies it as a meat product.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
I did assume vegans would be majority against honey consumption.
Gladaed@feddit.org 6 hours ago
The right side
lime@feddit.nu 7 hours ago
i got banned from a vegan comm for saying that bees tend to leave hives if they’re not satisfied with the conditions.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
Honestly, I’m on Team Honey, but that argument has a glaring hole in it.
Which is that many apiaries put an object over the entrance to the hive which lets worker bees pass freely but blocks the queen from escaping. And worker bees bonded to a queen will literally die before abandoning her.
So they can’t just leave. Bees that do that in the while travel as a colony in what’s called a swarm (which is actually very docile because they have no hive to defend). A bee that gets separated from its colony dies.
electric_nan@lemmy.ml 1 hour ago
I’m not an expert by any means, but I have known some beekeepers. Once I was asked to go help because one of their hives had “swarmed”, meaning a group had left the box with the/a queen and had posted up on a neighbors rose bush.
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
Those extremists would be very upset if they could recognize reality
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 7 hours ago
Reality is a social construct defined by the dominant ethnic group and manipulated by the Epstein class to control us.
mittyta@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I agree with you on the fact, but willingness to stay does not equal informed consent.
veryblandusername@fedinsfw.app 6 hours ago
Informed consent does not exist in the animal world and I’m very saddened that that’s a sentence I had to type.
You cannot apply human standards to animals, they do not understand contract law…..again, a sentence I’m just very sad I had to type because they didn’t understand that.
CyanideShotInjection@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Exactly, feed them sugar and they’ll happily stay, that’s not saying it’s good for them. Plus all the monoculture on which they often feed is detrimental to their survival as a species. It’s funny to me how in this capitalist world, there is a living being that is somehow not immorally exploited.
lime@feddit.nu 6 hours ago
completely fair, and a response that would hawe been greatly appreciated at the time.
roguetrick@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I’m not a vegan, but the current state of beekeeping is pretty shit. Taking the honey and replacing it with sugar water on top of the stresses of monoculture and killing varied flora with herbicides creating food deserts and using market conditions to race to the bottom on pollination contracts just results in a whole bunch of dead hives. Like you can both support sustainably practiced beekeeping and find the production of industrial honey to be a horror show.
decolo@piefed.social 6 hours ago
Regardless of whether you are vegan, vegetarian, carnivore, or other, if you aren’t horrified by industrial food production, you should be. This goes for industrial fish trawling & fish farming, industrial chicken cow and pig processing, honey I guess, even factory plant growing e.g. alfalfa almonds and corn (ruins the land and wastes water)
It’s so pervasive it’s hard to avoid everything.
maturelemontree@lemmy.zip 1 hour ago
With that and the amount of recalled food in the US, the only way to way ethically right now is to just die.
tired_fedora@lemmy.ml 6 hours ago
This is the correct response. Small-scale hobbyist beekeeping is awesome for humans, bees, and nature, and we absolutely positively need it. Industrial beekeeping, in which bees are carted across the continent to pollinate the fields of the highest paying industrial farmer may still be tolerable to the bee but far less so for nature. Many people don’t appreciate the nuance. Apis mellifera almost certainly won’t go extinct as long as beekeepers are around. But that’s not what we talk about when we say the bees are dying…
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
Apis mellifera isn’t native to the Americas and neither are a lot of the plants they pollinate. They crowd out the native bees and destroy their habitat. Small-scale beekeepers working in populated spaces aren’t the problem though. And they rescue swarms that would otherwise be exterminated. Plus they’re more likely than the average person to know about their local natives and support them, by making carpenter bee homes or whatever.
DokPsy@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Industrial honey is just another facet of my distain and complaint of industrial agriculture as a whole. Almost every vegan argument I’ve ever encountered has been in reaction to the horrors of the industrial process
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I wouldn’t say “need”. European honey bees are a foreign invasive species. They displace the native pollinators. IMO hobbyists are worse because they are damaging the native bees without reason unlike industrial farmers that need the bees to produce the food we all eat.
And the reality is the vast majority of hobbiest bee keepers do it as a tax dodge. In most states, if you put a hive on your yard, you get to classify your house as a farm and pay virtually no property taxes.
AmyAye@nord.pub 2 hours ago
I thought Vegans cpuld consume animal things if its done willingly.
Like if a cow walked up and said “Please gopd vegan, butxher me, it is my purpose,” they could totally make.and eat burgers from said cow.
That said, bee vomit feels like it sort of fall into that category.
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com 8 minutes ago
Dang dude, turn on autocorrect
chuckleslord@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
The bees don’t want you to take their honey. They don’t make excess, they make what they need and we steal it and replace it with stuff that’s “just as good” according to us. Bees die in the process of harvesting honey.
These are reasons that honey isn’t vegan.
Schmoo@slrpnk.net 1 hour ago
I know some people who keep bees and absolutely none of that is true if you take care of them properly. Bees will try to fill the space they are in with honeycomb even if it is well in excess of what they need because they are anticipating that the colony will grow, but if you harvest regularly and consistently the colony will not grow larger than can be supported by the honeycomb that is left behind.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Have you ever kept bees? They make a ton of honey in excess of what they need.
guy@piefed.social 2 hours ago
A quick web search tells me that bees don’t die when harvesting honey, unless you take more than they need to survive, too often and are careless when harvesting?
remon@ani.social 7 hours ago
The whole debacle can be easily avoided by just eating the bees directly.
cRazi_man@europe.pub 6 hours ago
The whole debacle can be easily avoided by just eating the
beesflowers directly.Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Pssshhhh!!! Maybe you set your sights that low. You can eat your bee’s, I’ll only be eating A’s!
Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 50 minutes ago
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) …just tell me where the line starts…
ch00f@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
The real debate is with figs.
apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I avoid honey becuase european honey bees are an invasive species, devastating populations of native bees and threatening their existence. We are not the same.
irate944@piefed.social 6 hours ago
It feels like there’s a whole debate about honey I’m unaware of, but isn’t the point of veganism avoiding anything made by animals? If yes, why is honey an exception?
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 6 hours ago
Most of are agreed that the point of veganism is to reduce nonhuman suffering. Following absolute rules for no reason is silly. The point is the ethics.
But the other vegans have the wrong opinion about whether eating honey causes suffering.
irate944@piefed.social 5 hours ago
Ahh thanks. But wouldn’t that make you a vegetarian?
(Not trying to be confrontational or disagreeing with your point, asking out of genuine curiosity)
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 5 hours ago
I chose a whole food plant based diet for health reasons, and honey just isn’t good for my body.
I chose to plant pollinator friendly plants in my yard because I think bees are cool and I love watching them do their thing.
Stolas@lemmy.ca 2 minutes ago
Vegans fight amongst themselves all the time, and plenty of them have different rules.
For example, veganism doesn’t extend just towards diet but animal products overall. A lot of people will only focus on the diet or certain animal products such as leather though.
Really wish people would just agree to do whatever they can, anything helps.