Have you tried engaging in a good-faith discussion instead of whatever half-witted rage-bait you attempted the first time?
.ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this
Submitted 2 days ago by taygaloocat@leminal.space to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
Comments
BillCheddar@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
A bullshit false equivalence that only serves to amplify alt-right messaging? Yeah, I’d downvote that garbage, too.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 day ago
And then they’ll unironically turn around and be like “bOtH sIdEs” whenever someone suggests that maybe we should have a democratic party that opposes fascists instead of progressives.
Sneptaur@pawb.social 1 day ago
Cry more, bigot. I see the comments you’ve had removed by mods.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Hey, they’re just an r-word and Scandinavia enjoyer, with some light bannings attributed to transphobia and nazism. That’s not at all relevant when they’re out here in the wild trying to forge up some horseshoe theory!
electric_nan@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
“How does all this fascism keep getting in my heckin anti-tankieism??”
texture@lemmy.world 1 day ago
i wonder why anyone is downvoting this
Sneptaur@pawb.social 1 day ago
Because their hate for communism is greater than their hate for naziism
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
Lemmigrad.ml ≠ lemmy.ml
Normally when people refer to “.ml” they mean the dev instance, lemmy.ml, not lemmigrad.ml.
I’m not commenting on the substance of your post, just pointing out the mismatch.
hobovision@mander.xyz 2 days ago
Grad is definitely worse than ml, but enough people on ml are tankies (including the devs) that it’s easy to group both together.
bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
They are both pretty extreme.
Tolc@lemmy.world 1 day ago
leftist extremism is good
Klear@piefed.world 2 days ago
lemmy.ml is just lemmygrad.ml wearing a mask - badly.
jimmy90@lemmy.world 1 day ago
yeah right
both cults, one worse than the other?
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Ah, hardcore commies. The level of density is incredible.
Their mentality is like:
Mao starved 10x the holocaust number of people but it’s okay, because it was unintentional!
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 12 minutes ago
A) you pulled that number out of your ass, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about B) even if A weren’t true the actual real life number of people killed by capitalism blows it out of the water and they do it on purpose
I’ll take well intentioned mistakes over gleeful evil any day
GuyIncognito@lemmy.ml 18 hours ago
Holocaust revisionism. typical.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
I think it just depends on which estimates you go off of. No one knows exactly how many people died in each, and while 10x is definitely pushing it, 5x would be more reasonable.
SippyCup@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
The problem is that the specific argument you point to is often brought up either in complete ignorance or straight up bad faith. Communism bad, look at (insert one of like, 5 events here)
But let’s ignore the untold millions slaughtered, enslaved, or maimed in the name of profit.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
The problem is that the specific argument you point to is often brought up either in complete ignorance or straight up bad faith. Communism bad, look at (insert one of like, 5 events here)
But let’s ignore the untold millions slaughtered, enslaved, or maimed in the name of profit.
The problem with your argument is that it can be applied to anything.
“This specific argument is often brought up either in complete ignorance or straight up bad faith. Nazism bad, look at (insert one of like, 5 events here)”
I could even sprinkle that turd with: “It wasn’t Real National Socialsm! Actual National Socialsm has never been tried!”
taygaloocat@leminal.space 13 hours ago
Totally, we can see socialist systems that work well alongside the free market, most of Scandinavia, Australia, Czech Republic, etc We’ve got the answers, we should just aspire to implement similar policies that actually work
Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world [bot] 1 day ago
this has got to be one of the dumbest posts I’ve seen here, who the fuck gives a shit
njm1314@lemmy.world 2 days ago
You not posting this in context makes you super untrustworthy in my book.
davel@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
It’s not hard to suss out the context: leminal.space/modlog?userId=17385373
lyrial@anarchist.nexus 1 day ago
Fuck. What an unlikable piece of shit transphobe.
binarytobis@lemmy.world 1 day ago
That guy gets banned a lot.
HollowNaught@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’m reading through these and oof lol. It’s hard to agree with the guy now, even given how bad tankies can be, considering their transphobic remarks
betanumerus@lemmy.ca 2 days ago
Dictators by nature are not trustworthy, so which one do you pick: trustworthiness or dictatorship?
go_go_gadget@lemmy.world 2 days ago
By “trustworthiness” do you mean continuing to try to vote our way into policy which benefits the American people? Because that hasn’t worked in 40+ years.
Yeah I’ll take a “dictatorship” like China if it means we get socialized Healthcare, 25,000 miles of high speed rail, affordable housing and nationalization of corporations who have received billions if not trillions in subsidies. American “democracy” certainly hasn’t delivered on any of that.
jwt@programming.dev 2 days ago
You think Linus Torvalds is untrustworthy?
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
I could just as easily say “president is untrustworthy by nature” or “king”, “prime minister”, “dictator”, “state”, “soldier”, “police”, ”judge” etc. Dictatorship doesn’t automatically equal “authoritarian tankie evil communism everyone starves”
Dictatorship by definition means the person or party that dictates. A judge is not authoritarian for providing someone a fair trial regardless of how harsh or fair they are, but they are still dictating a system or an action. So when you hear “dictatorship of the proletariat”, it literally means you and everyone else controls the law. It doesn’t mean you get to decide everything it means that democracy actually involves every single person that participates instead of being “dictated” by money.
Every country expresses authority in some way, wether it’s USA something like Bay of Pigs, UK with their actions in India and Africa, USSR defeating Nazi armies and liberating concentration camps sometimes WITH the us and British. Technically Warsaw ghetto uprising was “authoritarian” and it was a good thing that they expressed authority on the Nazi regime.
Just trying to provide some clarity, a lot of people in the US truly have no idea how evil our government is and what they do overseas to help maintain your lifestyle, and it barely does a good job of maintaining our lifestyle. If anything socialist policies are always provably better at building society, and even the bare minimum in the US are people like Mamdani or Walz that prove even if you enact quasi-leftist policies like healthcare you’re an evil communist who likes dictatorship. You’re falling for it but you don’t have to, if you believe in people like AOC and other “progressive” dems like Ilhan Omar in theory you should be unlearning these things you’ve been taught by the right wing American media.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social 2 days ago
The only difference between a tankie and a fascist is the name they give themselves.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
You’ll scare the racist imperialists with that kind of density. One image of Country Joe waggling his fingers is enough as it is!
plyth@feddit.org 2 days ago
Don’t you think the racism of one of them has a bit more of a consequence than of the other?
Lehmuusa@nord.pub 2 days ago
I completely agree.
And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
I still would not write an equal sign between fascists and tankies, though.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad. But you don’t really become a fascist in order to do good. You become a fascist because you think you are worth more than others.
I think being a tankie is about the goal being more important than the means – all the way to an extent where the means completely obliterate the goal. And being a fascist is about deciding that being limitlessly selfish is okay. One is at least trying to have a good goal. The other one is just… “Everything for ME and MY TRIBE, all others should DIE!” But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
This would assume the tankie-fascist isn’t also racist
silentjohn@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Myth: Communism and Fascism are the Same
Fascism upholds capitalist hierarchies (race, class, gender); communism seeks to abolish them
Fascism arises from capitalist decay to protect ruling-class interests, while communism opposes capitalism.
Historical examples (Franco, Hitler) show fascists collaborating with capitalists, not communists, who were among the first to be jailed/killed.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 hours ago
You forgot to include some communist historical examples.
Hint: They tend to do exactly the same thing.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Communists and fascists are diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive. Communists fight for the working classes, to collectivize all production and distribution to suit the needs of all. Fascists apply the methods of colonialism domestically in order to entrench capitalists and kill off labor organizers. Equating the two originated as a form of Holocaust trivialization called Double Genocide Theory.
sveltecider@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Horseshoe theory on lemmy. This website really isn’t much different than Reddit lol, makes sense cause it was mostly Reddit refugees to being with.
RiverRock@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
That must be why capitalists and the CIA love one, but hate and fear the other, right? Because they’re the same?
Never cracked a book-ass comment
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 day ago
or a conservative and left-wing tankie, mirrors images.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You went into a community which defines itself as Tankies, compared them to Fascists, and now you come here whining about it?
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
It all feels kinda performative…
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Standard Lemmy.world jerk off session.
Objection@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Getting banned from a .ml instance is a fediverse right of passage
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Bonus points if you get banned by the founding dev with that repo of weird manifestos.
Homie’s an odd duck.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Holy shit can you keep this dogshit on meanwhileongrad?? Like we get it there are crazy soviets on the internet, get over it you don’t need to turn every server into meanwhile
Tolc@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You are just a typical liberal who is equating fascist society and socialist society just because they are “authoritarian”, you are ignoring what they achieved and what were their ideas. By this logic liberalism and fascism are same because they both are capitalism.
HrabiaVulpes@europe.pub 1 day ago
Last week highly-upvoted comment on reddit claimed that environmentalism is nothing more than russian-bot fueled fad.
DragonOracleIX@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Social media as a whole is several echo chambers all clumped together. Like-minded will all gather together to prop up their ideals and push out and ban anyone who disagrees.
That or it’s 80% bots all deciding which comments and posts to give attention to.
Those are the only two logical reasons I can come up with for that happening.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The internet has allowed people, who would’ve otherwise have lived in isolation with their crackpot thoughts, to find each other.
TwodogsFighting@lemdro.id 1 day ago
Why not both?
TronBronson@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Looooool
HrabiaVulpes@europe.pub 1 day ago
My original reaction was quite similar.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Upvoters must live in filth. “Just drop your trash on the floor.”
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 15 hours ago
Get schwifty in here
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Comments are wild here
kreskin@lemmy.world 1 day ago
or a do-nothing centrist who’d rather let the fascists win in order to keep the left down, right?
But dont forget to vote blue no matter who, leftists!
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Saying the Soviet Union, Khmer Rogue and Mao were examples of bad leftist authoritarianism will get you banned from stuff there too.
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
That’s lemmygrad (THE tankie instance, with Hexbear), not lemmy.ml (the dev’s instance). Please do not conflate them together. And I say this as a dbzero user.
flabberjabber@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Totes.
I was banned from socialism on Lemmy.ml the other day.
For providing a detailed post with scientific references demonstrating how the Tibetan language is disappearing (and how the infographic posted was likely propaganda/misinformation).
I had many users respond calling me slurs and none really responding to the body of my post in any way. Then, instead of moderating the bullying, the mod called me a shithead, provided his own references and banned me to prevent me from responding.
The kicker? The references he linked to supported exactly what I was saying! He hadn’t read them.
Also funnily, the mod log states that I infringed “Rule 1”. I checked. Socialism’s rules are still TBD (after 7 years).
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’d say it’s because the bar for “tankie” is “anyone who had a problem with selling weapons for genocide.”
Stupendous@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
The Internets got to be worse thing to happen to the European and American civilian psyche. It’s like constant surprise that genocide and slavery spanned over 600 years of colonialism and imperialism may have a great deal more to do with our wealthy lifestyles rather than the last 50 years of relatively not so over the top slavery. Muh scandanavian democratic socialism built off centuries of violent oppression of labor and theft around the world
guerilla_ontologist@lemmy.world 1 day ago
terms like ‘authoritarian’ and ‘dictator’ are meaningless, invented by postwar westerners to equate fascism and communism, thus perpetuating the infamous and academically recognized ‘double genocide’ myth created by nazis (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_genocide_theory)
from Engel’s On Authority (www.marxists.org/archive/marx/…/authority.htm)
A number of Socialists have latterly launched a regular crusade against what they call the principle of authority. It suffices to tell them that this or that act is authoritarian for it to be condemned. This summary mode of procedure is being abused to such an extent that it has become necessary to look into the matter somewhat more closely.
Authority, in the sense in which the word is used here, means: the imposition of the will of another upon ours; on the other hand, authority presupposes subordination. Now, since these two words sound bad, and the relationship which they represent is disagreeable to the subordinated party, the question is to ascertain whether there is any way of dispensing with it, whether — given the conditions of present-day society — we could not create another social system, in which this authority would be given no scope any longer, and would consequently have to disappear.
On examining the economic, industrial and agricultural conditions which form the basis of present-day bourgeois society, we find that they tend more and more to replace isolated action by combined action of individuals. Modern industry, with its big factories and mills, where hundreds of workers supervise complicated machines driven by steam, has superseded the small workshops of the separate producers; the carriages and wagons of the highways have become substituted by railway trains, just as the small schooners and sailing feluccas have been by steam-boats. Even agriculture falls increasingly under the dominion of the machine and of steam, which slowly but relentlessly put in the place of the small proprietors big capitalists, who with the aid of hired workers cultivate vast stretches of land.
Everywhere combined action, the complication of processes dependent upon each other, displaces independent action by individuals. But whoever mentions combined action speaks of organisation; now, is it possible to have organisation without authority?
Supposing a social revolution dethroned the capitalists, who now exercise their authority over the production and circulation of wealth. Supposing, to adopt entirely the point of view of the anti-authoritarians, that the land and the instruments of labour had become the collective property of the workers who use them. Will authority have disappeared, or will it only have changed its form? Let us see.
Let us take by way of example a cotton spinning mill. The cotton must pass through at least six successive operations before it is reduced to the state of thread, and these operations take place for the most part in different rooms. Furthermore, keeping the machines going requires an engineer to look after the steam engine, mechanics to make the current repairs, and many other labourers whose business it is to transfer the products from one room to another, and so forth. All these workers, men, women and children, are obliged to begin and finish their work at the hours fixed by the authority of the steam, which cares nothing for individual autonomy. The workers must, therefore, first come to an understanding on the hours of work; and these hours, once they are fixed, must be observed by all, without any exception. Thereafter particular questions arise in each room and at every moment concerning the mode of production, distribution of material, etc., which must be settled by decision of a delegate placed at the head of each branch of labour or, if possible, by a majority vote, the will of the single individual will always have to subordinate itself, which means that questions are settled in an authoritarian way. The automatic machinery of the big factory is much more despotic than the small capitalists who employ workers ever have been. At least with regard to the hours of work one may write upon the portals of these factories: Lasciate ogni autonomia, voi che entrate! [Leave, ye that enter in, all autonomy behind!]
If man, by dint of his knowledge and inventive genius, has subdued the forces of nature, the latter avenge themselves upon him by subjecting him, in so far as he employs them, to a veritable despotism independent of all social organisation. Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel.
Let us take another example — the railway. Here too the co-operation of an infinite number of individuals is absolutely necessary, and this co-operation must be practised during precisely fixed hours so that no accidents may happen. Here, too, the first condition of the job is a dominant will that settles all subordinate questions, whether this will is represented by a single delegate or a committee charged with the execution of the resolutions of the majority of persona interested. In either case there is a very pronounced authority. Moreover, what would happen to the first train dispatched if the authority of the railway employees over the Hon. passengers were abolished?
But the necessity of authority, and of imperious authority at that, will nowhere be found more evident than on board a ship on the high seas. There, in time of danger, the lives of all depend on the instantaneous and absolute obedience of all to the will of one.
When I submitted arguments like these to the most rabid anti-authoritarians, the only answer they were able to give me was the following: Yes, that’s true, but there it is not the case of authority which we confer on our delegates, but of a commission entrusted! These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves. This is how these profound thinkers mock at the whole world.
We have thus seen that, on the one hand, a certain authority, no matter how delegated, and, on the other hand, a certain subordination, are things which, independently of all social organisation, are imposed upon us together with the material conditions under which we produce and make products circulate.
We have seen, besides, that the material conditions of production and circulation inevitably develop with large-scale industry and large-scale agriculture, and increasingly tend to enlarge the scope of this authority. Hence it is absurd to speak of the principle of authority as being absolutely evil, and of the principle of autonomy as being absolutely good. Authority and autonomy are relative things whose spheres vary with the various phases of the development of society. If the autonomists confined themselves to saying that the social organisation of the future would restrict authority solely to the limits within which the conditions of production render it inevitable, we could understand each other; but they are blind to all facts that make the thing necessary and they passionately fight against the word.
Why do the anti-authoritarians not confine themselves to crying out against political authority, the state? All Socialists are agreed that the political state, and with it political authority, will disappear as a result of the coming social revolution, that is, that public functions will lose their political character and will be transformed into the simple administrative functions of watching over the true interests of society. But the anti-authoritarians demand that the political state be abolished at one stroke, even before the social conditions that gave birth to it have been destroyed. They demand that the first act of the social revolution shall be the abolition of authority. Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?
Therefore, either one of two things: either the anti-authoritarians don’t know what they’re talking about, in which case they are creating nothing but confusion; or they do know, and in that case they are betraying the movement of the proletariat. In either case they serve the reaction.
iuseasahibtw@ani.social 15 hours ago
Serves you right for having a reasonable opinion.
melfie@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
Not necessarily the best example in this post, but in general, I find I get downvoted a lot when I make a good faith comment in .ml posts where I think I’m agreeing and am trying to understand the topic further. Getting 20 downvotes kind of kills my motivation to engage any further, though, so I usually just delete my comment , shrug, and move on. I’ve gotten to the point where I try to avoid wasting my time and energy commenting on .ml posts in the first place.
Maybe it’s just a different perspective on what a downvote means? To me, I’m generous with upvotes and withholding an upvote means I don’t find it interesting or disagree. I use downvotes sparingly for spam, trolling, comments made in bad faith, etc.
Murse@slrpnk.net 2 days ago
Blocking an entire instance seemed extreme at first, but with the level of crazy in .ml I finally just ripped off that bandaid and did it. It remains the only one.
The fediverse has been a much better experience ever since!
favoredponcho@lemmy.zip 14 hours ago
And then they ask for donations
Pissed@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
🤦♂️
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’m banned from a bunch of random places cuz I made a joke about Jack Ma disappearing for “re-education”. Loud critic of the CCP. Goes missing unexpectedly for a bit. Returns and suddenly sings the praises of the CCP. Definitely not fishy at all and you can’t joke about it.
ekZepp@lemmy.world 2 days ago
TronBronson@lemmy.world 1 day ago
idk bro im in america and i gotta say id take a tankie authoritarian just to have a little revenge on the right wing authoritarians, then hopefully society will have had enough strongmen for the rest of my life.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
.ml is Lemmy’s The_Donald or /r/Conservative. Obviously different ideologies, but the behavior is the same. Bunch of petulant children.
Tolc@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
liberalism is ideology of child
orioler25@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I don’t think it’s helpful to construct liberals as ignorant in the same way a child is. It is an uncritical and harmful way to think, but children can’t understand what genocide is because they haven’t lived long enough and do not know enough about the world, adults differ in that it is a choice to remain ignorant or to not change in response to knowledge.
There’s a special kind of malice that comes from truly knowing you’re wrong but do not care to learn better; not because they can’t, but because it is inconvenient.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Thank you for proving my point.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
that’s hilariously accurate.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 9 minutes ago
Image
orioler25@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Are you a liberal?
DarkFuture@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Are you special needs?
blarth@thelemmy.club 19 hours ago
It’s quite obviously a troll farm.