Ignore all the joke answers here. It seems insensitive given the subject matter. He’s probably lonely and feeling left out. If he has siblings it’s all the more likely. I was an alienated teenager who was in a place similar to your son I think. I eventually realized I and many others we’re being used to further the agenda of some unsavory fucks who wanted to send us back to the 1860’s. Try to show him how much he means to you. Let him know you care about him. Just don’t drive him away, Show some love and compassion and he’ll realize he’s drinking the kool-aid eventually I think. Hope this helps, good luck!
I am a very liberal person and I have very liberal children, except for one. I'm pretty sure my Gen Z son has been taken in by fascist doctrine. What can I get him for Christmas?
Submitted 5 months ago by Crackhappy@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
daggermoon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Also, should work with him to emphasis that isn’t really about having a party but before that, having a ethos. At the end of the day you need to evaluate how your ehtod aligns with the parties actions, not ideas. I can’t believe anyone today is conservative as I had once known them because I know the GOPs actions align only with obtaining power. Unless your ethos is “fuck you i got mine” the GOP offers you nothing.
daggermoon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Barry Goldwater wouldn’t recognize what his party has become. He tried to warn them. He pretty much predicted the rise of Christian nationalism.
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater
enbyecho@lemmy.world 5 months ago
A plane ticket. Others have suggested he’s bored and I concur. IMO, he needs to be intellectually challenged while simultaneously having his fears assuaged. Fear, I believe, is a key driver in pushing people toward fascist ideologies. Most likely he fears not being loved.
Traveling to countries with very different cultures can be both stimulating and reassuring, especially if it involves some significant challenge - a physical one like climbing a significant peak or somewhere that’s just super hard to get to. You can demonstrate that you love and care for him by going with him. Just the two of you.
helloworld55@lemm.ee 5 months ago
I think this is the best one. It’s a real gift recommendation that doesn’t sidestep the parent’s concerns about their kid
Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 5 months ago
Bruges
dlhextall@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
That shithole?
ChronosTriggerWarning@lemmy.world 5 months ago
It has beautiful alcoves, i hear.
r0ertel@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Fear is a key driver (period). I just heard this on the radio. They analyzed what pulls people in and it’s fear. Fear also keeps people lingering longer. I didn’t hear enough to explain it (I got to my destination before the show was over). Putting it together with other things I’ve heard, the algorithms that are tuned to keep people engaged on the site skill natually choose things that stoke fear and that is probably the same thing that the facist propaganda is promoting, too.
Apytele@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
[deleted]Doorbook@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Additionally, I would suggest activities that doesn’t isolate him further or put him in a group of like minded people. Cooking classes would be nice.
Asafum@feddit.nl 5 months ago
While cooking classes might be nice, I would think for someone who is suspected of falling into the fascist sphere of influence that masculinity is more than likely highly emphasized so they would more than likely be offended by the thought of cooking.
Although if you could frame it in a masculine sense like barbeque then maybe you could get somewhere. I don’t know if there are specific group barbeque classes though lol
superkret@feddit.org 5 months ago
Why is his political opinion important for a Christmas present? Just give him something he’d like.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 5 months ago
And if all he wants for Christmas is an ethnically homogeneous fatherland?
Just stick to socks.
superkret@feddit.org 5 months ago
Just make sure they’re white.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 5 months ago
If he’s consuming right wing social media, it might be because he’s bored. Others have suggested left wing media, but maybe just finding other activities to do would help. These cost money, but maybe camping/hiking, hobby electronics/combat robots, dirt bikes/go-karts, RC planes/drones or metal fabrication are ideas that come to my mind. These are hobbies that have either politics neutral or left leaning communities. If he picks up that you’re trying to politically influence him, he’ll likely dig his heal in.
Anticorp@lemmy.world 5 months ago
This is great advice, and combine it with talking to him. My son was into Tate, and then Rogan, and a few others throughout his years. He would tell me about something they said and I would tear it down with logic and empathy, and then explain the right mindset from which to view whatever the given subject was. Indoctrination requires isolation, so keep an open dialogue, and an open mind, and talk them down from the ledge.
loomi@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Voucher for 1 free vasectomy?
Hikermick@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Bootstraps
Azal@pawb.social 5 months ago
This is my favorite one.
Kaiyoto@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Something that interests him other than fascism. Idk why that has anything to do with a gift. A gift is there to show appreciation and love, not to manipulate their pov.
Skates@feddit.nl 5 months ago
I know, right? Like OP, maybe the kid is interested in antiquities, you could get him some from Benito Mussolini’s collection. Or maybe he likes art, you could buy him one of Hitler’s paintings.
Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Yeh, this is a weird question. Kid has to know he’s going to be accepted by his own Dad and still be able to make up their own mind on things. Hopefully when they’ve more fully developed they might sway a different way but acceptance from their Dad shouldn’t really be conditional upon it.
LordGimp@lemm.ee 5 months ago
An extremely late term abortion
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
Nah. Kids are easily influenced.
You take 100 kids and feed nazi propaganda all the time. 99 of them will become nazis.
We all hate nazis, but if you were put in the same environment as the nazi, chances are, you’ll become a nazi.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Dunno. Look at his few Jews under 30 are Zionists, despite the brainwashing
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world 5 months ago
So, what makes you think he’s been taken in by fascist doctrine? Are we talking, “he thinks Dave Chapelle is funny and rolls his eyes at wokeness” or are we talking “defends hitler at the dinner table”? I ask just because I feel like some very liberal/leftist people can be pretty jumpy about things that are ultimately harmless. Additionally he might just be doing/saying things to act out and get a rise out of you. You’re not gonna fix that by making him read “white fragility” or something.
As far as gifts go I agree with many others in suggesting something that will make him interact with other worldviews in the real world. Maybe you can get him into a hobby that is shared by people across many different socioeconomic backgrounds like basketball or martial arts or travel or something.
Furbag@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Some kids adopt an edgy political identity as a form of protest or rebellion. I can see this being the case here, especially if your whole family is particularly left-leaning. Kid wants to feel like he has an autonomy over his own decision making and that he’s not just a carbon copy of you or his siblings, so he becomes as contrarian.
As a teen I was also taken in by extremist political ideology on 4chan, but the thing that snapped me out of that is, surprisingly enough, my curriculum at school focusing heavily on critical thinking and problem solving as essential skills. That’s unfortunately not something that can easily be condensed down into a gift-sized package. I’m sure there are some books out there that can help, but I worry that it might be too on-the-nose or that he might just not like reading much to be interested in dry subject matter like philosophy or political science.
I kind of agree with other posters here that taking a family trip somewhere, maybe not explicitly as a gift for him, but as an experience for all of your children, will expose him to stimuli that drastically differ from the way he currently sees the world, which is influenced by a nonstop stream of fearmongering propaganda and a lack of perspective of what a world outside the town or city he grew up in actually looks like.
Norin@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Do you know if the doctrine he’s been taken in by is religious or secular in nature?
I ask because I could recommend some books you could get him that just might get the kid to think a little harder about things.
For context, I teach philosophy and religion for some community colleges and have been looking for ways to get these Gen Z alt right boys to quit the propaganda.
While a lot of them seem to be lost causes, there are some who can be challenged to read outside their sphere, so long as what I give them isn’t too overtly “other.”
Depending on what he’s into, there might be some authors who know how to talk to an oppositional reader.
nomen_dubium@startrek.website 5 months ago
i was going to mention some books too but then i saw the pink floyd answer and realised that would be far more likely to not end up sitting on a shelf :(
Philosofuel@futurology.today 5 months ago
I would say, a good conversation. Listen to him, ask question, don’t be too judgemental (and that can be hard). But also accept, that for a big part, you can’t form/force his way of thinking. In the end he has to find his own way in life.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Plane ticket to Peru and a Ayahuasca retreat
FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
The more you try to overtly meddle the more the kid will be convinced of their beliefs, reactionaries thrive off disagreement and arguments.
Get them something normal, perhaps something the connects with nature.
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Isnt this the same type of thing the church tries to do? “Make em feel part of the in-group” thats pure psychopathic manipulation right there.
SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
My brother/sister/nonbinary sibling in christ “make your kids feel included in the family” is absolutely not in any way psychopathic manipulation.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 5 months ago
How do you contact brain washing without other brain washing?
They’re not going to logic out of a belief that they didn’t logic into.
chilicheeselies@lemmy.world 5 months ago
When i was in ny early 20s, i was a Ron Paul guy. When I was in my early 30s, I was a Bernie guy.
So what changed, and what was the same? In my 20s, I didnt have a fundamental understanding of how money really works. Ron Paul was big on the gold standard, which makes sense kn the surface. Crypto is similar where it makes sense on the surface; finite supply means no inflation and no value loss. I somehow also reasoned that not having the gold standard was the cause of inequality, but I honeslty cant understand why, and i cant remember either.
In my 30s, I understood how they money system works mich better. Why we left the gold standard, and how it was holding back progress. I understood how our money is actually backed by muscle, and therefore the national debt doesnt really matter all that much until the day comes when the dollar has no value, because the US is defunct.
Im sure I have much more to learn as I am in my early 40s now.
The point I am trying to make, is that your son probably lacks understanding and wisdom, and is currently easily swayed by surface level logic.
Thisbis really in addition to the other great stuff people have said in here
lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Ask him what he wants and use that as a starting point?
xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
By “fascist” you mean “supports ethnic cleansing”, or “doesn’t agree with me on every single political issue”?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Which political issue do you get called fascist for?
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Its sad as fuck that this needs to be asked. The word facist used to mean something.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 5 months ago
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Perhaps if u talked to ur son abput his beliefs and didnt invalidate his opinions simply because u disagree u might both learn a little and grow as people. Calling ur son a fascist is only going to make him more steadfast in his beliefs.
Trying to force him to believe what u want instead of teaching him to think fof himself and excercise his free will to develop his own identity separate from what u told him might be a wise idea.
As for what to get him for Christmas how about sonthibg unrelated to politics that he legitimately wants. Go speak to him and ask him.
Squizzy@lemmy.world 5 months ago
A lot of young men are sucked into this world, what you have described is exactly what I took OP to be looking for.
They might get them a membership to a gym or tools for a hobby that allows them to socialise outside of online.
Op mever called their son a fascist or mentioned they want them to believe the same thing. Fascism is harmful, thats why even the fascists call the others fascists, it is not a bad idea to want to realign someone’s viewpoint with reality.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 5 months ago
The Wall (the full album) by Pink Floyd
vk6flab@lemmy.radio 5 months ago
An education?
shatteredsword@lemmy.world 5 months ago
A cooy of disco elysium
And009@reddthat.com 5 months ago
Second this, communism go brrr
reksas@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
We really need better terms than facist or nazi. People keep confusing the meaning of the words because its all we have for description of these type of people. There might be some overlap, but unless it 100% fits it just creates opportunities for people to be confused and issue to get muddied by pointless arguments and misunderstandings.
For some time i have thought this type of thoughtset as “dark humanity”, but i’m not sure how fitting term it is and it feels kind of over dramatic. It just feels like humans are kind of split, with some in the middle too. Though i’m also worried that making such clear distinction would also make the separation more solid.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 5 months ago
The fuck it is. Fascists are fascists are fascists. There is not some moral equivalence between that and libtard, and honestly fuck you for making the comparison.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 5 months ago
What i’m trying to do is suggest we should try to find alternatives to where we are eventually going, which is both sides attacking eachother for real.
And while there is no moral equivalence, there is equivalence between our hate of fascism and their hate of our way of thinking. Do you really want to be the opposite side of same coin?
Also, i dont see the need to be immidiately so offended and attack me verbally like that. You can point out the mistakes someone has made and offer your own corrections to them and discuss like civilized people. Was everything i said truely so offensive?
wreel@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
A hobby
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 5 months ago
gets into 40k
Delphia@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Thats only a problem if he picks the wrong faction.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I don’t know how to put this delicately, but:
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
2.) Much of my family is like this and it is always due to a similar lack of confidence/self-loathing.
I’m not suggesting anything, just throwing it out there. That’s a hard thing to “gift” around, if it’s even at all potentially relevant. Gym membership or weights? You’d have to have a pretty unique relationship with your son to give him psychedelics or a trip to a nice strip club, and I’m not even sure that solves anything necessarily (just using it as an extreme example). Could be badass. Could be really weird/icky. Probably the latter. Massage is less weird? I don’t know.
Which is why I agree with the sentiment of separating it all from Christmas and just love him and give him something that shows you know him and know what he would like, so that he feels seen and appreciated. “I’m not going anywhere” is the most-powerful message you can try to send. I’d say IF you try to gift something like that, make sure it’s only a side item. Don’t make the entire thing about your differences.
Many cliches of parenting turn out to be realities as you go. You find yourself realizing tropes exist for a reason. They grow up fast. Different phases at different periods. Moody teenagers. They’re not always true, but they often turn out to be understandable. Besides the above, it’s worth considering whether there might be some element of “rebellion” in it, if he grew up liberal. Maybe it’s just “doing the opposite of my lame family,” like a little bit of a “fuck you, dad!!!” phase? No matter what, you lose the more you dramatically respond. I think riding it out by being the rock who loves him no matter what is ultimately the best play, which means some awesome gift that he would love.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
My GenZ son is in his early twenties and lockdown and impacts on his health and school have really thrown him for a loop. He has not been overcome by fascist ideologies, but we seem unable to inspire him with any motivation. He’s the same sweet person he’s always been, but I think he is content to just play video games in his room and do D&D with his friends a couple times a week forever. (I understand that, but we won’t always be here to put a roof over his head, and we are not wealthy people. He’s going to need to support himself when we go.)
He is also very overweight (the entire family is, but he’s really accelerating it) and although he doesn’t seem very very bothered by it, I know he’s aware of it.
I understand the need for exercise and I understand calories. Those things don’t need explaining. But I’d love to know how you got over that hurdle to start doing something about your body. I feel like some successes there could easily translate to greater confidence and motivation in other areas.
We spend lots of time together, we enjoy him just like we always have, he just seems rudderless and we’re trying to help him without controlling him, but with limited success.
Anything you might be able to share about your turnaround could be helpful. Though I’m not offering him psychadelics. 🙂
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Unfortunately, that really is the answer for me. Psychedelics made it all finally click in a way that stuck. I had previously seen marginal success in dieting, but could never keep it off. Because I was coming from a religious background, part of it was, “What’s the point?” Sex is wrong. I married young. Life sucks. And so on. Psychedelics made all of the percolating doubts and insecurities click into place in a clear way. “I’m NOT really religious; I don’t believe it. I’m not raising my kids that way. No third-party is going to step-in and change my body for me. Nobody is going to put the weights in my hand and check my progress. I have to take care of me. I either have to take action or shut up and live with the consequences. I’d really prefer to live a life where I’m more desirable and it’s not really anyone else’s fault if I’m not putting in enough effort and ‘losing the mating game.’” And so on–can’t really characterize a trip like that with words obviously.
I might have/probably would have eventually gotten there without psychedelics? I think? Maybe? I don’t know. But they certainly provided the swift kick in the ass I needed to clarify years of baggage. I know it’s not helpful to say “give your child psychedelics,” but it just happens to be what helped me (specifically, one instance of using shrooms was the most-impactful, I mostly only ever microdosed a few times besides that one trip).
I have a long-time close friend who has long struggled with weight in a serious way. He briefly lost it and suddenly he was dating a beautiful Ukrainian girl, seeing the benefits of being healthy, loving life. That was a long time ago, it ended, he gained it all back. The closest I’ve come to getting through to him is to be a bit more crass than I normally would be in saying, “REMEMBER HOW GOOD IT WAS TO BE WITH THAT GIRL!? DON’T YOU MISS THAT AND WANT IT BACK? ISN’T THAT WORTH A FEW MONTHS OF WORK?” But being a bit more pointed in my language. But again, you’re probably not going to say, “Don’t you miss that good pussy!?” to your son, so…I’m kind of useless to you, maybe.
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m not joking or kidding or insincere. I actually don’t know what to do.
Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Get him something related to his interests. It’s weird to make Christmas political like this
thezeesystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
This is totally valid. Fascism in this country is on extreme high. Especially in schools and other public places due to how the government uses propaganda at schools and banning everything related to being a good person.
I don’t know the situation so it’s hard to recommend anything besides education, remember that there human and make mistakes, don’t dictate but strongly suggest ways that what there learning is fundamentally wrong. I have no kids. But whatever happens remember there human. And being accepting and loving can go a long way.
protist@mander.xyz 5 months ago
It sounds like your question is not actually about what to get him for Christmas, but instead about how to cope with the situation and maintain a relationship with your son
Scubus@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Well yeah, “how do i build a lasting relationship with my child before they start throwing me and all my friends in the gulag” is a pretty good question
kava@lemmy.world 5 months ago
let your children come to their conclusions on their own. do not try to force them into believing one thing or another. share what you believe is right and let them critically think and analyze the world for themselves
it’s perfectly natural for teenagers to rebel against their parent’s world view- especially when they feel like they are being forced into it. it’s part of growing up and crafting your own unique identity. nobody has it all figured out when they are a teenager, even though they think they do. so they may seem arrogant and ignorant… but that’s perfectly normal
as for present, you know your son a lot better than any of us will.
Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Have your son travel, sending him off to see how other people live and how cheerful and helpful most people are is probably going to open his eyes.
- Puerto Rico, Bahama’s, St Lucia, British Virgin Islands are all fairly safe and you can mix and mingle with the locals. Just don’t stay somewhere where you will only stay on the resort. Get a hotel or resort in the middle of a community
I had a wonderful time in St Luca several years ago and stayed at the resort below. It’s a small resort in the middle of a town with lots of interaction with locals.
chilicheeselies@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I would send him to Europe over the Caribbean. Its too easy to stay on the resort and learn nothing in the Carribean.
Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Literally the link I posted was a small resort in the middle of a community…
Atin@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Das Kapital
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
Doing political stuff for Christmas is one way to ensure you have a nazi kid forever. Just ignore the politics, give a normal gift. Love will conquer all the hatred that he has. Good luck.
rayyy@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Not only that, but the hatred on the right will consume them. Sit back, lay low, don’t participate and let the fools burn themselves. Opposition will only give them targets to blame for their failures.
Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Being conservative depends on you being fearful rather than empathic. The fast way to get people to turn from conservatism is promoting the behavior that is focused on doing good for others and providing an environment where someone might not have as much external stressors.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
Normal gift, yes.
Love conquers all? This isn’t a Hallmark movie, yo. Have a chat after Xmas. If you have the presence of mind to see your kids supporting shit we literally fought wars over, you don’t pat them on the head and say “ah it’ll be fine”.
Be a good parent, talk to your kids.