I would say, a good conversation. Listen to him, ask question, don’t be too judgemental (and that can be hard). But also accept, that for a big part, you can’t form/force his way of thinking. In the end he has to find his own way in life.
I am a very liberal person and I have very liberal children, except for one. I'm pretty sure my Gen Z son has been taken in by fascist doctrine. What can I get him for Christmas?
Submitted 2 days ago by Crackhappy@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
Philosofuel@futurology.today 2 days ago
FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
The more you try to overtly meddle the more the kid will be convinced of their beliefs, reactionaries thrive off disagreement and arguments.
Get them something normal, perhaps something the connects with nature.
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 2 days ago
Isnt this the same type of thing the church tries to do? “Make em feel part of the in-group” thats pure psychopathic manipulation right there.
SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
My brother/sister/nonbinary sibling in christ “make your kids feel included in the family” is absolutely not in any way psychopathic manipulation.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 day ago
How do you contact brain washing without other brain washing?
They’re not going to logic out of a belief that they didn’t logic into.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I don’t know how to put this delicately, but:
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
2.) Much of my family is like this and it is always due to a similar lack of confidence/self-loathing.
I’m not suggesting anything, just throwing it out there. That’s a hard thing to “gift” around, if it’s even at all potentially relevant. Gym membership or weights? You’d have to have a pretty unique relationship with your son to give him psychedelics or a trip to a nice strip club, and I’m not even sure that solves anything necessarily (just using it as an extreme example). Could be badass. Could be really weird/icky. Probably the latter. Massage is less weird? I don’t know.
Which is why I agree with the sentiment of separating it all from Christmas and just love him and give him something that shows you know him and know what he would like, so that he feels seen and appreciated. “I’m not going anywhere” is the most-powerful message you can try to send. I’d say IF you try to gift something like that, make sure it’s only a side item. Don’t make the entire thing about your differences.
Many cliches of parenting turn out to be realities as you go. You find yourself realizing tropes exist for a reason. They grow up fast. Different phases at different periods. Moody teenagers. They’re not always true, but they often turn out to be understandable. Besides the above, it’s worth considering whether there might be some element of “rebellion” in it, if he grew up liberal. Maybe it’s just “doing the opposite of my lame family,” like a little bit of a “fuck you, dad!!!” phase? No matter what, you lose the more you dramatically respond. I think riding it out by being the rock who loves him no matter what is ultimately the best play, which means some awesome gift that he would love.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
1.) I grew up in this line of thinking (but also deeply religious, so it’s a little different) and it dissipated due to two main things: psychedelics and losing weight/becoming more confident and in-shape. In my case, I hated myself because I was unattractive and very overweight. I saw other people getting girls and resented how easy it seemed, while I felt invisible.
My GenZ son is in his early twenties and lockdown and impacts on his health and school have really thrown him for a loop. He has not been overcome by fascist ideologies, but we seem unable to inspire him with any motivation. He’s the same sweet person he’s always been, but I think he is content to just play video games in his room and do D&D with his friends a couple times a week forever. (I understand that, but we won’t always be here to put a roof over his head, and we are not wealthy people. He’s going to need to support himself when we go.)
He is also very overweight (the entire family is, but he’s really accelerating it) and although he doesn’t seem very very bothered by it, I know he’s aware of it.
I understand the need for exercise and I understand calories. Those things don’t need explaining. But I’d love to know how you got over that hurdle to start doing something about your body. I feel like some successes there could easily translate to greater confidence and motivation in other areas.
We spend lots of time together, we enjoy him just like we always have, he just seems rudderless and we’re trying to help him without controlling him, but with limited success.
Anything you might be able to share about your turnaround could be helpful. Though I’m not offering him psychadelics. 🙂
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Unfortunately, that really is the answer for me. Psychedelics made it all finally click in a way that stuck. I had previously seen marginal success in dieting, but could never keep it off. Because I was coming from a religious background, part of it was, “What’s the point?” Sex is wrong. I married young. Life sucks. And so on. Psychedelics made all of the percolating doubts and insecurities click into place in a clear way. “I’m NOT really religious; I don’t believe it. I’m not raising my kids that way. No third-party is going to step-in and change my body for me. Nobody is going to put the weights in my hand and check my progress. I have to take care of me. I either have to take action or shut up and live with the consequences. I’d really prefer to live a life where I’m more desirable and it’s not really anyone else’s fault if I’m not putting in enough effort and ‘losing the mating game.’” And so on–can’t really characterize a trip like that with words obviously.
I might have/probably would have eventually gotten there without psychedelics? I think? Maybe? I don’t know. But they certainly provided the swift kick in the ass I needed to clarify years of baggage. I know it’s not helpful to say “give your child psychedelics,” but it just happens to be what helped me (specifically, one instance of using shrooms was the most-impactful, I mostly only ever microdosed a few times besides that one trip).
I have a long-time close friend who has long struggled with weight in a serious way. He briefly lost it and suddenly he was dating a beautiful Ukrainian girl, seeing the benefits of being healthy, loving life. That was a long time ago, it ended, he gained it all back. The closest I’ve come to getting through to him is to be a bit more crass than I normally would be in saying, “REMEMBER HOW GOOD IT WAS TO BE WITH THAT GIRL!? DON’T YOU MISS THAT AND WANT IT BACK? ISN’T THAT WORTH A FEW MONTHS OF WORK?” But being a bit more pointed in my language. But again, you’re probably not going to say, “Don’t you miss that good pussy!?” to your son, so…I’m kind of useless to you, maybe.
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 2 days ago
Perhaps if u talked to ur son abput his beliefs and didnt invalidate his opinions simply because u disagree u might both learn a little and grow as people. Calling ur son a fascist is only going to make him more steadfast in his beliefs.
Trying to force him to believe what u want instead of teaching him to think fof himself and excercise his free will to develop his own identity separate from what u told him might be a wise idea.
As for what to get him for Christmas how about sonthibg unrelated to politics that he legitimately wants. Go speak to him and ask him.
Squizzy@lemmy.world 1 day ago
A lot of young men are sucked into this world, what you have described is exactly what I took OP to be looking for.
They might get them a membership to a gym or tools for a hobby that allows them to socialise outside of online.
Op mever called their son a fascist or mentioned they want them to believe the same thing. Fascism is harmful, thats why even the fascists call the others fascists, it is not a bad idea to want to realign someone’s viewpoint with reality.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
We really need better terms than facist or nazi. People keep confusing the meaning of the words because its all we have for description of these type of people. There might be some overlap, but unless it 100% fits it just creates opportunities for people to be confused and issue to get muddied by pointless arguments and misunderstandings.
For some time i have thought this type of thoughtset as “dark humanity”, but i’m not sure how fitting term it is and it feels kind of over dramatic. It just feels like humans are kind of split, with some in the middle too. Though i’m also worried that making such clear distinction would also make the separation more solid.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The fuck it is. Fascists are fascists are fascists. There is not some moral equivalence between that and libtard, and honestly fuck you for making the comparison.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
What i’m trying to do is suggest we should try to find alternatives to where we are eventually going, which is both sides attacking eachother for real.
And while there is no moral equivalence, there is equivalence between our hate of fascism and their hate of our way of thinking. Do you really want to be the opposite side of same coin?
Also, i dont see the need to be immidiately so offended and attack me verbally like that. You can point out the mistakes someone has made and offer your own corrections to them and discuss like civilized people. Was everything i said truely so offensive?
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
Some political theory, then read it yourself so you can stop being a liberal /j
wabafee@lemmy.world 1 day ago
A ticket to visit nmaahc.si.edu/explore/…/slavery-and-freedom
or
A course for …harvard.edu/…/slavery-and-historical-memory/
Gift him the yellow badge. Let him wear it for the whole Christimas.
Disconnection notice from the ISP.
A contract to not use the internet for a year in exchange for X cash/gift.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 day ago
A Peoples History of the United States by Howard Zinn
vk6flab@lemmy.radio 2 days ago
An education?
antimongo@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I used to be heading down this path as a teenager. For me, college was the eye opener. When I broke away from my normal bubble of people, I would have my opinions and biases challenged.
I like the travel suggestion as well. Also I went to some music festivals around that time that were pretty significant to my beliefs. I guess it depends on the type of music they prefer though.
aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Coal
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 day ago
No! That’s what they want!
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 day ago
The wicked have enough coal Hell, its making them rich!
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I’m not joking or kidding or insincere. I actually don’t know what to do.
Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Get him something related to his interests. It’s weird to make Christmas political like this
thezeesystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
This is totally valid. Fascism in this country is on extreme high. Especially in schools and other public places due to how the government uses propaganda at schools and banning everything related to being a good person.
I don’t know the situation so it’s hard to recommend anything besides education, remember that there human and make mistakes, don’t dictate but strongly suggest ways that what there learning is fundamentally wrong. I have no kids. But whatever happens remember there human. And being accepting and loving can go a long way.
protist@mander.xyz 1 day ago
It sounds like your question is not actually about what to get him for Christmas, but instead about how to cope with the situation and maintain a relationship with your son
Scubus@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Well yeah, “how do i build a lasting relationship with my child before they start throwing me and all my friends in the gulag” is a pretty good question
Atin@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Das Kapital
Anticorp@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair.
masquenox@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I’d suggest NOT giving him more liberalism, since that has already has already demonstrated the predictable outcome.
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Indeed. Perhaps a positive reinforcement?
masquenox@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Scratch a fascist and a liberal bleeds.
Dkarma@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Marx
cerement@slrpnk.net 2 days ago
- Peter Kropotkin, The Conquest of Bread (1892)
- Murray Bookchin, The Ecology of Freedom (1982)
- Abdullah Öcalan, Democratic Confederalism (2011)
FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 days ago
While those are cool books you’re not going to turn a facist kid leftist by gifting them anarchist books they aren’t ever going to want to read.
Especially when their radicalisation likely came from the instant gratification of social media.
DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
A bible lol
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I don’t know how else to show him I love him or that he’s a part of this family.
pugsnroses77@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
does he like music? see if theres any old punk shows around or any records/vinyls if he likes that at all. sex pistols, dead kennedys, hell, even green day.
jordanlund@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Annotated Mein Kampf:
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 2 days ago
The article doesn’t mention this, so I am adding that you can also read that annotated version online for free at www.mein-kampf-edition.de (but only in German; not sure if there are annotated translations into other languages, I never checked because German is my first language).
mintdaniel42@futurology.today 2 days ago
My 1st thought as well
kibiz0r@midwest.social 1 day ago
I’d recommend some Scott Galloway. He’s an advocate for young men, but he’s not one of those toxic manosphere types. He’s not exactly a leftist, but he’s certainly a liberal by today’s standards.
antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
And if your son is old enough, and a virgin/incel, maybe buy him an evening with female companionship.
IMNOTCRAZYINSTITUTION@lemmy.world 2 days ago
holocaust documentary with real footage so he can see what the end consequences of that shit is.
rational_lib@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’d be curious about what makes him different from the others. There’s been some research regarding fluid intelligence* vs. crystalized intelligence, where liberals tend to be more on the fluid side. It kind of makes sense because rather than trying to figure out what they can’t understand off the bat, conservatives tend to rage against it.
As far as gifts, I dunno. Maybe a puzzle game? I don’t know what’s big in the puzzle game world now, if anything. The idea is make your son more comfortable with the idea of tackling novel problems instead of trying to cram them into an existing framework.
*it’s called “intelligence” but I tend to think of it more like a thinking strategy. Fluid intelligence being “can I think of a way to solve this?” while crystallized intelligence is “what strategy that I’m familiar with already can solve this?”
telllos@lemmy.world 1 day ago
bear@lemmynsfw.com 2 days ago
The best gift will be the same understanding, acceptance, and love you show all your kids.
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 2 days ago
It’s hard to do that when he shows such clear disdain for his siblings.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 2 days ago
…a ballgag?
intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Well, I guess it’s time to choose between
- The childish notion that everyone you disagree with is a fascist
- Your relationship with your son
I really, really hope you’ve got the guts to admit you’ve been juicing on hyperbole.
WillySpreadum@lemmy.world 1 day ago
How the fuck can you see the results of the last US election and the rhetoric on the right and say stupid shit like this?
DarkFuture@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Probably has something to do with them not being particularly intelligent.
telllos@lemmy.world 1 day ago
A lot of people recommend anything, outdoors, hiking, camping, dirt bikes etc.
I want to say you have to be careful with those. As you can easily spiral into right wing, conspiracy theorist territory.
Youtube is very good at pushing that kind of content.
Maybe something about food, like cooking classes, or about traveling.
BenFranklinsDick@lemmy.world 1 day ago
So hiking is fascist now?
telllos@lemmy.world 1 day ago
No no, it’s not really what I mean. Hiking is great, and everything that has to do with nature.
But I enjoy sometimes watching video about surviving in nature, bushcraft and youtube algorithm started pushing stuff about Paranormal shit, conspiracy things.
It might be true about anything. it’s juste something to keep in mind. Before pushing OP’s son to get a hunting or fishing license.
But clearly disconnecting from social media can help.
If you have to advise about hobbies, boardgaming is nice, rollerblading too.
Baaahb@feddit.nl 1 day ago
Survivalist militias are, and guess who already has a history of going too far…
xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 1 day ago
By “fascist” you mean “supports ethnic cleansing”, or “doesn’t agree with me on every single political issue”?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Which political issue do you get called fascist for?
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 day ago
Its sad as fuck that this needs to be asked. The word facist used to mean something.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Image