The reason is logistics (as usually the reason for most things military related). You can fit a hell of a lot more conventionally shaped grenades in a crate than you can with stick grenades. Even on a person, conventional grenades weigh less, are less cumbersome, and you can carry more compared to stick grenades. Stick grenades really only have their ease of throwing over a conventional grenade
Anon misses the classic design
Submitted 2 months ago by Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works to greentext@sh.itjust.works
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/32374170-ba88-45cb-b1d5-0960cdacd26c.jpeg
Comments
Comrade_Spood@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I wonder if anyone in the military has used a sling to launch a grenade.
You’d want a longer fuse though…
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 months ago
According to wikipedia, the International Brigades used slings to hurl grenades during the Spanish American War. I’ve heard tell of Ethiopian troops using slings to launch grenades as recently as World War I, but can’t find a source.
And I know people have launched molotovs from slings, which are larger and more unwieldy, unless we’re talking about the German example above with a handle.
raltoid@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Grenades are used at closer and more hectic ranges that most people realize, so it’s often much faster to just throw it instead of having to prepare some sort of implement to increase range.
There have been instances of things being used, like slings, slingshots and even devices similar to those things you use to throw tennis balls for dogs. But at the end of the day, the increased range is rarely worth the extra time. You would only get an advantage as an opening attack from a longer distance. And for that we already have underslung grenade launchers on weapons, or mortars from much further out.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Or a cistera 😀
Dungeon Crawler Carl Style
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
They used slingshots during WW1, it wasn’t great
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Sling staff to launch grenades?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Just connect the pin to the sling so it slides out as you launch it. It has the small side effect of maybe getting stuck, but hey, nothing is perfect.
jaybone@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
It’s easier to pack and ship cylinders than it is to ship oblong spheroids.
regdog@lemmy.world 2 months ago
You only look at the complexity of the shapes and ignore the total volume used
Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
That’s probably partly why the new modular grenade is a cylinder, but that’s worse for a frag grenade.
Sergio@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
Interesting question.
The stick design provides leverage for throwing longer distances, but at the cost of additional weight and length, and has been considered obsolete by western countries since the Second World War and Cold War periods.
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Ah, then why not throw them with a sling? All the extra leverage with none of the extra weight, and it’s more or less silent. Imagine a barrage of grenades coming in from 200 yards at 60mph.
radix@lemmy.world 2 months ago
You could even give it some sort of rocket propulsion.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 2 months ago
I’ve seen slings used to throw things. Either ropes attached to the projectile, or pouches on ropes designed to release the projectile.
I’ve also seen those slings not throw the “grenade” 200 yards away, but straight up in the air, or wrapping around branches or arms or flying backwards…
Slings require just enough skill that they would probably be more lethal to friend than foe.
Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Just use a drone to drop it two kilometres away instead
OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Because you have to learn to use a sling and if you’re not good you’re much more likely to blow yourself up.
You could probably come up with a more idiot friendly version though some kind of fabric sock where you just launch the whole thing
match@pawb.social 2 months ago
this is the guy i want on my team for the post apocalypse
ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Most boringly because most western armies are probably going to use an airplane or tank in that situation. Significantly less risky to have the squishy people hide behind something strong while a machine does the dangerous work from a distance, if you can manage that.
Grenade is more for close distances, like “just over that ridge” or “in the next room”.
Trimatrix@lemmy.world 2 months ago
My guess? the stick part blocks the effectiveness of the explosiveness at where ever the stick is point at time of impact. You could argue that to change that would be to make the stick part the actual explosive part and have effectively an explosive baton. But then the ends of the “danger” baton wouldn’t have the same explosive effect to the target facing the end of the baton grenade compared to a target facing the sides of the baton. So, to mitigate that, a sphere shaped grenade would probably be ideal with separable metalic “scales” as a shell. Now you have ideal coverage of the area no matter how the grenade lands at the target.
At that point, I would assume ergonomics and determining which way was up so that you know where the pin is leads to why grenades look the way they do today.
remotelove@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
It’s just a bit of wood attached to a fairly big chunk of explosive and I would guess that wood shrapnel is just as deadly as metal within it’s effective range. The stick isn’t going to block much of anything.
Stuck grenades could have a fragmentation sleeve, but they relied more on the explosive concussion for damage, not the shrapnel.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I doubt you can throw them further. Has a lot more drag and is less dense than modern grenades.
raltoid@lemmy.world 2 months ago
You are seemingly correct:
According to the British War Office, the stielhandgranate had a throwing distance of up to 27m while standing, compared to the 35m distance of the M67. Which weighs 30% less and take up 75% less space lengthwise.
taladar@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I would assume the ideal design for distance would be shaped somewhat like a glider.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Why not an American football shape, but grenade sized?
dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I’ve been playing a good amount of disc golf lately. Why not a disc shape?
- With proper training, it can be thrown over 100 meters.
- It can curve around corners.
- It’s fun.
- It will definitelly hit the very first tree in your path and kill you.
- it stacks nicely in a backpack.
BootLoop@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Generic_Idiot@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Bruh bionicles were the shit I’d forgotten!
anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
You know how you can throw a frisbee at an angle that makes it come back to you in a straight line?
An angle that you can easily hit if you try to throw out of a trench…ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 months ago
No. 4 is proof that you really are a disc golfer.
BigPotato@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Stacks nicely in a backpack? You know how much crap goes in a medium ruck? How’s Jenkins gonna find my stash of disk nades under my spare ammo and ‘field stripped’ MREs? No, I need my grenades quick access, on my chest next to the repurposed saw pouch full of rip-its.
dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Okay, but how about both? 2 discs in the backpack (or medium ruck if you want to be german about it) and a waist of ball nades. Then you have options!
sowitzer@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Add some LEDs and feel like you’re playing Tron instead of killing people.
Legume5534@lemm.ee 2 months ago
- heavy.
SnortsGarlicPowder@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Long wooden handles don’t go boom. Wasted space.
The grenade pouch has to be much longer to house them or the grenades are hung on a belt that can cause movement issues.
Throwing a ball is about as easy as throwing a stick. So no point for the stick shape.
HK65@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Throwing a ball is about as easy as throwing a stick.
Yeah but the stick goes further because all the weight is at the end so it gets more momentum on the same throwing arc
TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Eh, the extra momentum probably doesn’t overcome the extra weight and drag created by the handle. People are comparing it to an atlatl, but you’re throwing an aerodynamic object with the atlatl, not the atlatl along with the spear.
More than likely the biggest reason is just logistics, extra weight, extra space, additional steps in fabrication.
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Upgrade: Splinter attack.
Also i feel like I would be able to throw a stick one further, am I wrong?
MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
I could definitely throw the stick one farther but I have a shoulder problem/disability.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Can’t roll it into a bunker or small window.
ameancow@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yah but how else will you advertise your secret fetish for fascism?
trungulox@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I dunno. Eating human shit?
festnt@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
but ball can’t give anyone pleasure
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Not with that attitude.
SnortsGarlicPowder@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Just gotta add some strong string.
untakenusername@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
can give you pleasure
ofc anon thought of that
supernicepojo@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I recall a story of an evacuated ER in the UK(?). Bomb squad called because an older man showed up with unexploded ordinance in their rectum. Think it was a WW2 shell in that case but the parallels remain.
barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 2 months ago
The traditional hand grenade became the standard for the American military because American soldiers grew up playing baseball, and were extremely accurate throwing grenades the same way. American Baseball gave American soldiers an advantage that European and Asian militaries didn’t have.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
What about one of those long spoony “scoop” type things that people use to throw balls at the dog park?
k0e3@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Anon is over-analizing the design.
ODGreen@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
They could make a stick that a soldier could put a spherical grenade on to help give extra range. Like an atlatl or one of those tennis ball launchers for dogs.
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Like a Vortex football! They could even put those little whistle things on the sides so they make that sound while soaring through the air
BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Balls go further than sticks. Theyre more aerodynamic for a start.
Dont worry, the Military Industry Complex is all about killing people, so it would be using sticks if it was beneficial.
wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Like a gun!
Valmond@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Or a 7 meter long stick, just bob it off
DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
more expensive building a grenade with a full wood handle and all extra parts is more expensive then ball that go boom
bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
You can also easily string them together into a fancy danger necklace
MehBlah@lemmy.world 2 months ago
They facist nazi’s that used them was destroyed. No one cared about the design of the grenades. Only the rockets and the jet engines.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Someone must have tried a jai alai stick at some point.
j4k3@lemmy.world 2 months ago
forbidden drum stick
Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Wood is heavy
Paranomaly@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
One reason I’ve heard it’s that you can hold the spoon after pulling the pin on a pineapple grenade, but not on a stick
LordWiggle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Plus, these are huge, not easy to carry several in addition to all your other gear.
shice@lemmy.world 2 months ago
If I remember correctly, the spherical design was mainly created to resemble a baseball. Since most US citizens knew how to throw a baseball at the time it would mean they didn’t have to train soldiers as much
Atomic@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
That is a myth. The spherical form is to maximize surface area to volume for shrapnel, ensuring that no matter how it lands. Shrapnel will go in all directions.
Rusty@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
That’s definitely a myth. Soviet WW-2 grenades like RGD-5 and F-1 are also spherical and baseball was unknown at that time in USSR.
InputZero@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s also wayyy more cost effective when you’re transporting them. For the Allies, because they relied so heavily on supply lines every cubic foot of space on a ship or truck was important. Carrying a grenade on a stick to the front means not carrying three more grenades. I’m sure four grenades are more lethal than one grenade that a soldier might be able to throw a little bit further.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 months ago
So… what were the Germans so used to throwing that theirs has a handle?
idiomaddict@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Going off of the shape and what I know of Germany today, beer bottles.
ieatpwns@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Dildos
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Axisaxes