Almost accurate, except the boss is randomly weak to one of the 20 status effects. Also, said boss fight is nearly impossible without exploiting that one status weakness because fuck you.
Anon plays an RPG
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Early_To_Risa@sh.itjust.works to greentext@sh.itjust.works
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Comments
lemzinger75@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
FenrirIII@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s worse if it’s a status effect only attainable by learning it from a random enemy somewhere in act 2
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Fromsoft: “We will have exactly 2 enemies in the entire game that are weak to this status effect. Everything else will resist the fuck out of it.”
Jankatarch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“It’s a consumable and you only get 1 shot at this. Enemy is absurdly hard without it.”
korazail@eviltoast.org 2 weeks ago
I see this in other games too, and I call it the ‘speedrunner tool’.
Normal players (me) get stomped by a boss a few times until they figure it out and can beat it without the buff (fire paper, lightning grease, etc); Maybe they use them, but then they run out and are never used again…
Some players might use the buff and get an easier win; but if they don’t, then they are wasted and are hard or impossible to replace, so players learn to not rely on them.
Speedrunners use lightning grease to kill the boss in 3 hits and are already halfway to the next boss before the buff runs out and already picked up the right buff item for that next boss. When your victory is all but guaranteed, the item makes it faster - otherwise it’s not really useful.
I think Ethers in FF games as a trope kind of fit here too. Too valuable to waste, but if you can do it without them, then you didn’t need it unless you absolutely needed to kill that boss without using a tent or resting, etc, to save time.
DrunkenDuckling@lemmus.org 2 weeks ago
Elden ring was a bit better: Everything is either weak to or completely resistant vs holy, flip a coin
Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
FFX was so annoying about this, was doing the dark aeons recently and all you can do in those fights is buff yourself and attack, felt pointless unlocking debuff skills at the end of some characters pathways only to never use them.
Looking at you Triple Foul.
lokalhorst@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
The dark aeons are very special end bosses though. I remember just paying Yojimbo 10,000,000 cash and then he would just split them in half…
Maultasche@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It felt like the Devs overcompensating for making the actual final boss the easiest one the series.
Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They were definitely trying to be super bosses which the game desperately needed, but a layer or two of additional strategy would have really been nice.
Maybe with shiva you might need to hit her with a fire attack before you could apply debuffs or do damage to her.
Or valefor being immune to non ranged melee attacks as it flies, I dunno just something other than a bigger health bar. Could have been cool.
Penance has a little more to him, having to deal with the 2 arms as they regen to ensure you don’t get wiped so easily, but he was still just immune to everything and had a big bar.
FFX has something like 44 status effects and super bosses were immune to basically all of them, give me some reason to use these abilities like Triple Foul or Doom (think Auron had an overdrive that could apply break debuffs even to super bosses, but I think that was it).
FenrirIII@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m working my way through the entire Final Fantasy series now. Currently on 5, but never played X. Seems like I need a strategy guide
Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The end game of X is very long (think the longest in the series) and stuff like character stat maxxing and unlocking ultimate (celestial) weapons is hard without a guide.
Dont feel bad about looking up a guide either, some of the shit you are required to do is super convoluted and/or tedious. Plus you can easily miss one item in an area and permanently lock yourself out of content.
ddplf@szmer.info 2 weeks ago
This armor is a gamechanger because it gives me a decent elemental resistance boost to some random element, I’m gonna organize my build around it
Statement dreamed up by the utterly deranged
Hoimo@ani.social 2 weeks ago
I will only stay in this one area where this specific type of enemy spawns to get the most out of this resistance. I don’t want to see the rest of the game.
And you find the plate mail with 80% fire resistance not at the end of the water dungeon, but at the end of the fire dungeon. You will never see another fire elemental after you exit here. Fire damage will be completely irrelevant, even in the final boss fight where Satan himself shows up and only uses dark attacks.
okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I feel like Square-Enix in particular over-corrected on status effects after FF6 had the Vanish/Doom combo, Fenix Down items used on undead instantly killing them, etc.
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
If by over corrected you mean made perfect, I agree
ICastFist@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Pretty sure Phoenix Down insta killing undead continued afterwards, I recall that working in FF Tactics
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There’s something of a tradition in Final Fantasy of having one undead boss that can be killed instantly with a phoenix down.
okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nice. It’s been a hot minute since I’ve played any FFs
ExtraJudgement@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Status considering recovery items are even worse, because you have to stock them, just in case there’s ever a fight that you really need them in, but then finish the game without every having needed even a single one.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
In related news I found out much later than I should have the freeze in Pokemon can wear off on it’s own.
Noodle07@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There’s fire moves that thaw you when you use them as well
Rednax@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Similarly: Skyrim has other potions than health, mana, and fortify restoriation potions. But no one will be able to tell you what they do.
Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Game designers, and I’m including tabletop rpgs, love having status effects that freeze, paralyzed, or do a percentage of health of damage; but they always neglect the fact that they’re ineffective against hordes of weak enemies and are overpowered against strong solo enemies.
Really wish they would have more foresight than to just make it have zero effect on bosses. I’d be satisfied with it applying a weakened effect instead of being outright immune.
SparroHawc@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
As a sometimes-DM who enjoys making interesting encounters, the answer is to either avoid solo bosses, or have multi-phase bosses where their tactics/immunities change. Steal liberally from JRPGs, they were absurdly popular for a reason!
DragonOracleIX@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Crystal Project does exactly that. The DoT effects do health percent damage, and the stronger enemies and bosses have resistance to it rather than full on immunity.
Unique_Emerald_Sol_I@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Hate to agree with an anon but that was always my exact experience playing any RPG outside of Pokémon. Between that and not having any indication how much stat-boosting moves actually boosted my stats, it trained me to never use anything other than offensive skills.
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Outside of Pokémon???
The game where you can spam 1 move on one Pokémon to finish the entire game?
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
In competitive Pokemon, buffs and debuffs are absolutely critical.
In a single player run, they’re useless.
Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s a game where it’s useful to use status moves on wild Pokemon (mostly to catch) and also all status moves work the same against bosses as regular enemies.
Unique_Emerald_Sol_I@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I think that’s a (very slight) exaggeration but I recognize Pokémon is babby’s first RPG which is why I generally don’t count the series when discussing RPGs.
In the case of the topic at hand, tho, all the Pokémon games I’ve played have encouraged the use of status ailments against bosses and has hard caps on stat boosts that are easy to wrap your head around.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Yeah, dude acting like leer and tail whip were used any more than nil.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Play Warframe.
Have a frame with armour stripping.
Armour stripping is a number based on current armour, not base armour, so it doesn’t scale with level.
Low lto mid evel enemies die too easily from conventional attacks to even bother casting armour strip.
High level enemies have way too much armour, requiring to spend more time and casting energy to strip their armour than just using a conventional weapon with the correct element.
Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
That’s not really up to date information, now is it? Most armor strips in Warframe are percentage-based, with only a few remaining that aren’t.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, and they’re mostly the older Warframes. Mag feels rather forgotten.
coffeecake@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Laughs in Shin Megami Tensei.
Admetus@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
A bit like the Elden Ring of jrpgs (well, it’s not that hard)
Cherries@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Play Etrian Odyssey where status effects are an integral part of every encounter.
HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Including the ability to cheese curse to do obscene damage if I remember right.
asmoranomar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
ffxi, we gave Bard a song that deals damage over time. Everything is immune to it.
Manalith@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
I’ve always felt this about Pokemon, there’s so many moves that affect stats, cause status effects, or do something interesting, but I always just go for whatever deals damage. Even on my current run, I’ll keep a move around because it sounds fun, but won’t use it.
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Literally if you arent one-shotting youre just playing the game wrong or bad on purpose.
Im a known pokemon hater. Its just a “very complicated but less complicated than you think” game of rock-paper-scissors.
capuccino@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I can’t believe that there is actual “competitive” scene of Pokémon. At the end just wins the one with the bigger rock, paper or scissors.
Bosht@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
People are downvotung but I love this hot take hahaha
sumsinj@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The competive strats are diverse use these mechanics. And romhacks that actually focus on harder fights might lead real strategy in a fight and needs good team building
paultimate14@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In Pokemon, a lot of stuff exists to throw against you, the single player, which are you not expected to really use yourself. The single-player game is NOT expected to be balanced or fair. Heck, in most of the games there are only 2 NPC’s with a full party: one of which will.be a fisher with 6 Magikarp, the other is the champion and final.boss of the game.
This is why there are a ton of pokemon that suck. They are not intended for you to use and GameFreak just made a mistake: they are intended to allow GameFreak to throw easy encounters at you.
Poison used to tick down your Pokemon’s health with every step outside of battle. Persistent status effects are there to wear down the player’s resources across a routewith several trainer battles and probably wild encounters, nkt to wear down the player over the course of a single battle.
Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Try pokemon colosseum or XD: gale of darkness (both for gamecube), they both almost exclusively have 2v2-battles which actually have strategic depth as opposed to just matching types and going ham. They also serve a bit of a twist on the normal games, since you capture your pokemon mostly as shadow-pokemon from other trainers.
Manalith@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
I did play both of those when they first came out, I don’t remember a whole lot of the gamepkay outside of, no actual travel outside of town, for XD you can only capture dark Pokemon, don’t remember for Colloseum, and they both have the same, rather obvious, twist of who the villain is. That said, I enjoyed them both a lot when I had my GameCube.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Persona 4, where the first 5 or 6 first bosses are weak to an element, but if you use it they get a shield against it.
degen@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
Almost worse to me is when you’re railroaded to only using the latest acquired buff and everything else is useless once you progress. Like beating the boss is just hoping you land the special attack enough times to beat dps before it runs out. Mostly in TBS games I suppose.
87Six@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’ve yet to play a game in which poison damage was at all relevant. Mostly they require to be poinsoned so you can do more damage with a different attack, if that.
Seefoo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
STS & STS2 (slay the spire)
SilverFlame@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
When I played Ass Creed: Odyssey I used a poison build, it was very effective in that game.
Feyd@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
The games where status effects basically have healthbars that apply the effect when they break and get bigger when they recover so you can’t keep applying the same one easily figured it out. Lets you do things like blind the boss and take no damage for a bit without trivializing by blinding the whole fight
forkDestroyer@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
Haste and slow, bb!
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
eh, depends. I use them quite a bit in some games. Persona and the FF, but you have to know what you are doing, and they are mostly useful on stronger basic enemies or minibosses.
But yeah, pragmatically, the learning/experimentation curve for status effects is too high/annoying for most players/playing.
Admetus@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
A bit like SMT (me playing Nocturne) where not a single one of your demons has the required skill that would make it so much easier.
Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Cast confuse, end up being punched in the face anyway.
chunes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The only games that have useful dots are MMORPGs during raids
senslayer@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Og shin megami tensei v highkey broke this since most low level strats used the guaranteed status proc skill
In general, staus is very useful, at least in early-ge smt.
Takashiro@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
I think I already saw that anime from the picture, but I can’t remember…
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
RPG has consumables (potions, scrolls, grenades…)
Don’t spend on normal enemies, because there will be bosses
Don’t spend on bosses, because there will be final boss
Final boss: dies in a minute without you spending any
Here we go again
fdnomad@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Don’t spend on bosses because I dont want to have wasted a consumable in case I die and have to retry the boss.
I wish crafting an item made it a refillable instead of a consumable. I feel like the cracked pots in Elden Ring were going in the right direction as “refillable containers” at least
Kushan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
By the time you get to the bosses, the shitty potions don’t heal enough anyway.
I appreciate the RPG’s that let you craft better potions from the shit ones, but I still never use them.
excess0680@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The funny thing about this in Elden Ring (since you mentioned it), I never learned to use consumables besides the flasks. I’ve seen speedrunners make great use of some of the greases for example, but every time I use something I end up dying anyway. Really hurts because some of the consumables have limited crafting materials (St. Trina lily for sleep pots iirc?).
I ended up beating the base game without them.
dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Played Alan wake a couple days ago and for the first few level it was the same. But then I noticed that I lose all my stuff at the start of a new chapter. So I might as well use it.
So maybe there is something to be said about taking away players stuff in intervals to force them to use it.
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
That is indeed a curious mechanic
Maybe also having more consumables in the world and less fitting in your inventory would be a good thing? So that the player feels they’ll just waste it if they don’t use it, and it’s not that rare anyway.
bilb@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
This is similar to why I actually came to like the rapidly breaking weapons in the Switch Zelda games. Once my mindset became “don’t bother hoarding good weapons, just use whatever you want because you’ll just find new ones all the time” it stopped being annoying and instead kept things fresh.
addie@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
That’s the reason that consumables and money don’t carry over between levels in Thief: The Dark Project. No point in hoarding stuff, you might as well use it. Except of course that if you’re good, you don’t need to use any items at all - not even the blackjack.
okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The consumables are for plebs that need the help. No, thanks. I’ll just explore every corner of the world collecting all of the consumables in chests and pots and whatever(never using them, mind you), fighting every random encounter, and hitting the level cap before the third act. Who needs tchotchkes when I can transform into/summon a glorious esper and cast Ultima?
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Shattered pixel dungeon has an interesting approach: everything is unidentified, including potions. If you want to identify them, there are scrolls of identification (once you figure out which ones they are, though I believe most classes auto id them) but most of the time it’s experimentation. Drink it and see what happens. Took me a bunch of runs to even realise that was something I should do (because you don’t need to identify potions for them to just sit in your bag for future use, but I figured “fuck it” and tried one, which made me float, and I realized what I needed to do to get to chests in rooms full of traps without using all my hp and waiting to heal).
jaycifer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I broke this habit once growing when I decided to finish Mario and Luigi Partners in Time after a break. I had just reached the final dungeon, but before diving in I realized I had more money than I knew what to do with.
I went to the store, got like 99 of all the cool looking items, entered the dungeon, and went to town. Every turn was a question of whether to use a power flower, hammer, or what have you. I mowed through all those end game enemies and the final boss didn’t know what hit em. It was glorious.
ICastFist@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
One thing that is easing me into using items is watching speedruns, of all things. Hell, I used to be an ammo hoarder for side-scrolling games that had them (Jazz Jackrabbit, Mega Man), nowadays I prefer to blast the powerful stuff
zoltanshields@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Replaying Bg3 makes me realize how pointless poisons are most of the time.
Anyone beefy who I might like to debuff or DOT is inexplicably immune to poison, blindness or falling asleep. Not even just bosses, feels like anyone I can’t kill in two rounds with Lae’zel is immune to these poisons I lovingly made.
Some elixirs are cool though.
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
In my first walkthrough of BG3, I think I only ever used healing potions, and even they were situational as I tried to keep Shadowheart stocked on spell slots, and my main character was a wizard (and for a large portion of the game, Gale was in a party too)
Oh, and I straight up didn’t find Lae’zel, Karlach, or Wyll in Act 1, and I lost my chance to add Halsin and Minthara, so I was limited to casters + Astarion anyway. The game didn’t accentuate that I really, really need to look around, and that only struck me in Act 2, by the point I couldn’t return to Act 1. Still, I got Jaheira on my side, which basically turned every battle in an enclosed space into a meat grinder for enemies. Made it a challenge to get Minsc though, as hostile Boo is absolutely destroyed by this grinder too.
DragonOracleIX@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I had to actively push myself out of thinking this way. When a game hands something like a consumable to the player, it should be expected that they could use it at any point in time. If that item is non-renewable and certain encounters are designed around needing that item, then you actually playing a puzzle game that lets you permanently destroy the puzzle pieces with no warning.
Allero@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I also slowly come to this realization. Having completed so many games without any consumables at all makes me more confident :D
Besides, this should be worked through game design. If a player uses consumables in battle, chances are it’s already challenging enough. If it is then followed by harder fights and the player is empty, they will likely just ragequit at some point not to come there again, or will constantly switch the game’s difficulty if it’s available, which makes for an inconsistent and cheaty-feeling gameplay.
Malica@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Toy yetti here we go!