Hot Ones trying to sneak in the package protection

Submitted ⁨⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨dmtalon@infosec.pub⁩ to ⁨mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world⁩

As I’m sure most people would, I almost just hit Checkout but happened to see the text below. I am also sure I would have caught/removed it from the check-out page but maybe not. I did complete my order without ‘package protection’ but am sending an email and probably won’t order again unless their response is acceptable.

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Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
WTF is “Packet Protection”? Insurance? Extra padding? Or “Without it we just slap an address sticker on the original packaging”?

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- anewfox@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  don’t worry, i googled it for you so you wouldn’t have to actually read anything yourself and you can just stick to speculating for attention on social media.
  
  it’s third-party shipping insurance. but your credit card almost certainly offers the same protections already.
  
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  - Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    So this is like taking a bet on your FedEx guy being careless. Double the money.
    
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boonhet@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Interesting, they try that here in the EU too. I find it particularly egregious because until I take delivery of the package, I’m not responsible for it if it’s lost or damaged.

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- Jiral@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Isn’t that illegal in the EU?
  
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  - boonhet@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    Not sure, haven’t investigated yet.
    
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Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
See, this is why they get away with it.

In the 1950s, before I was born, my dad was a child of about 8 years old.

My grandfather was a traveling vacume salesman. He’d travel the country, and sell vacumes door to door. There’s 365 days in a year, and he was generally home for about 14 of those days. Never together. Just an average of about 1 day a month he was home. Sometimes 2 days, but not back to back.

My grandmother wanted to spend some time with her husband, whom she loved deeply. So she requested he take a vacation with her, and their 4 children. So he put in the time off request, and was granted a 3 week break in the upcoming summer.

Now my family, both grandparents, and all 4 of their children are all white. But our last name is a name that you would assume is a black persons name. I still think it seems like a name that can be any race, but I’ve been consistantly told by black people, that I shouldn’t have my name, because I’m white. So I guess the common consensus is that my name is a black name.

Back in the 1950s, the way travel worked was very different. Today, you log onto a travel website, you book your own hotel, you compare deals, ect. Back then, none of that. Instead you could use a real estate agent which cost more, or you could do what my grandfather did. He went to the library, requested information on books about Myrtle Beach resorts. Then from there he called the hotel directly. When he talked to a hotel in Myrtle Beach City, they told him they would sent him an information packet in the mail. He would need to select the dates, the number of rooms, and number of guests. Which would be 6. Then the information packet would tell him how much his stay would cost, and he would use the postage included envelope to mail back his check, and a letter written to the hotel manager requesting stay. He mailed it off. A week or two later he gets what he thinks is his acceptance letter in the mail confirming the reservation. Instead he gets his check back, with the word “VOID” stamped on it. And a letter from the hotel manager.

“Dear Mr (our last name), I regret to inform you that we do not accept (n-word)'s at our fine establishment. We are a strictly whites only establishment.”

My grandma says she never seen fury in his eyes like that. This normally quiet, calm, individual who just wanted peace and quiet got a burning red rage in his eyes, and screams at the top of his lungs.

"KIDS, GET YOUR ASSES DOWN HERE RIGHT NOW!!! (Grandmas name), GO GET MY FUCKING CAMERA!!!

Couple things. First, my grandfather never raised his voice. He never demanded anything. He never cursed. And he NEVER NEVER NEVER ordered my grandma to do anything. If anything he felt it his responsibility to ask what she needs.

My grandma, nor my dad, nor my aunts knew what just happened. They just knew he was pissed, it came out of nowhere, and they were now scared. They didn’t get a chance to see the letter before he snapped. So you can bet my grandmother just ran to get the camera, and the kids came barreling down the stairs thinking they were in trouble.

ALRIGHT! EVERYBODY ON THE FRONT LAWN!!! WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A NICE HAPPY FAMILY PHOTO FOR THESE BASTARDS!!! I DIDN’T STORM NORMANDY FOR THIS SHIT!!!

I’ve seen the photo. The best way to describe it was an angry man, and 5 other terrified indivuduals all fake smiling. In the background was the house they lived in back then. Big beautiful house. Not a mansion, but big enough that some poor people might think it’s a mansion. 5 bedroom with 2 living rooms.

They take the photo and without saying a word my grandfather stormed inside to find this old timey quill and ink. He hand writes a reply. In cursive. Using a quill and ink which is VERY apperent that it’s not standard cheap ink pens.

Dear Mr (hotel managers name). No, I regret to inform YOU that we will not be entertaining the idea of ever staying at your resort. I will happily share a hotel with any man or woman of any race before I ever settle for enriching a racist. Our family will still be visiting Myrtle Beach for the dates previously requested, but at this time we will be seeking other arrangements for lodging. Enclosed you will find our family photo. Sincerely, (grandpas name)."

And a week later, he sent them that hand written letter, and the photo. They went on that vacation at a different hotel.

That hotel was torn down in the 1970s. My grandpa said his three greatest accomplishments in life were 1) Marrying my grandma 2) Sending that letter 3) Living through Normandy. In that order.

My point is, you can always seek alternatives. By still buying the product anyways, you’re actually doing harm by writing the letter now. At this point it only serves to prove to them that it’s worth it. They can trick the majority, but also even the people who aren’t fooled may not take the $2 worth of scam…but they’ll still buy the product. This just proves there is no downside for them.

Will you alone make a difference by not buying the thing? No. But you also have no principal in the situation. You’re mad, but still giving them money, so why would they stop? Maybe if more people in this world still held to their principals, collectively we start telling the world that they don’t run the show. They can stop scamming, or go out of business.

But by still buying the product, you give all that away.

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- diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨38⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  1 downvote is the manager
  
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- Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  I love this story, thank you for sharing
  
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- FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Friend, since this story is so important to your personal history, you may want to memorize the spelling of vacuum for future retellings. Just a friendly heads up. All good things to you.
  
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- MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Thank you for sharing this story.
  
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Vespair@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I hope you responded by cancelling your order and sending them an email/message explaining your cancellation due to unacceptable business practices.

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lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Scummy as fuck

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- dmtalon@infosec.pub ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Ya, I’ve seen this trend of package protection being available more and more, but this is by far the scummiest I’ve seen. This IMHO is almost criminal.
  
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  - MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    If you think it’s almost criminal why proceed with the order?
    
    They’re basically outright saying “we poorly package our products and pass that cost onto you”. If something they send breaks in transit that’s their fault or something they need to figure out with the shipping company. It should at least be refunded if not resent for free.
    
    I on occasion get fragile things from craft stores and online sellers and these individuals and small companies manage to send these things just fine without charging me for the convenience of having it arrive in one piece. I don’t know why this company is getting away with this.
    
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  - xtr0n@sh.itjust.works ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    It could be criminal, of we actually had a functioning government ☹️
    
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  - Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Price gouging and usury weren’t enough. Now they want protection money.
    
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  - errer@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I’ve seen this exact same UI on several other sites so unfortunately it appears to be a trend
    
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  - Tikiporch@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Capitalism means seeing all the complaints about the Post Office, FedEx, UPS, etc losing packages and thinking “I wonder if I can monetize that fear?”
    
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Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
For people asking what this is - for my small biz, adding insurance via ups would be about $25 per package, and 3rd party protection is about $11. I don’t make any money off this, it’s strictly to cover lost / damaged shipments.

I offer default protection on during checkout but call it out in a big obvious box, and warn that if you remove it and the package is lost then you’re out of luck. Most people leave it on, and I have about a 2% package loss rate (thanks ups) that has all been covered so far.

If I didn’t offer it via 3rd party then that $25 would be rolled into the shipping cost, so the customer is forced to pay. This way they get the option, and it saves them money.

I wish more companies would just be up front about it though, it feels deceptive when they shove it in without explaining why.

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- dmtalon@infosec.pub ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I appreciate your comment, but are you saying of the 2% lost packages they’ve all been for people that had coverage, therefore covered, or that UPS has covered all lost packages regardless of insurance?
  
  If I order something and don’t get it, you can be sure I’m not eating that cost. I will do a chargeback if it’s not resolved appropriately.
  
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  - Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Those 2% were covered by the 3rd party insurance, and I send out replacements right away instead of waiting for the insurance to do their thing.
    
    Yep you’re well within your right to do a chargeback and I’d probably have to eat the loss, but I’m not willing to ship a replacement in that case either. The insurance would ensure you get the product at the end.
    
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- SolSerkonos@piefed.social ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I thought UPS just included insurance?
  
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  - Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Only up to a smallish amount, it’s been a few years but i think it was like $100 cad
    
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- SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  where I’m from, basically all sellers only offer insured shipping.
  
  just the fact alone that you don’t have to tell angry customers that they are out of luck, because they didn’t feel like paying for the insurance is worth the slightly fewer sales
  
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  - Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    In which case that’s bundled into the shipping cost, so you’re paying it either way at the end of the day. I could just not offer and pad the shipping rates, but opted to give my customers the choice. So far I haven’t had anyone who opted out, lose a package. Those likely to lose them, know already that their local ups is sus.
    
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- dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Dang, if you’re in the US you should consider the post office, their lost parcel rate is between .1% and .5%.
  
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  - Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I’d use Canada Post, except they won’t ship products internationally that contain a lipo. UPS wasn’t my first choice =(
    
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MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
l/baduibattles.

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Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Sucks that they tried to hide it, but I definitely recommend getting it. Of the 10 times I ordered from them so far, 2 of them arrived with a broken bottle. When a bottle breaks, you don’t want that box in your house… I let the delivery guy know right away what he likely got on his hands from touching the box, so he didn’t touch his eyes or anything before cleaning them. With a picture of the broken bottle, they let me toss the entire box and resent the whole order. Both times. I wouldn’t bother if it was just a tier 1 or 2 that broke, but one of those times it was da bomb… and the other, it was that years last dab.

I wonder what they do for replacements when people don’t get that, do people need to send it back? That would suck for everyone.

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- mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  if they can’t ship their products safely, that’s on them.
  
  I’m not the one choosing the shipping service, they are.
  
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- bier@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  So they don’t package there products currently and instead sell you insurance? Until you sign for an online order it isn’t yours so if it breaks it’s on the seller to send a replacement. They may get back to the shipping company for reimbursement but as a customer I don’t care and don’t need to know. It’s not my fault you ether didn’t package glass bottles in enough foam or the shipping company stompt your package nether are my problem I bought a product from you and until I receive what I ordered in the advertisemed state you haven’t completed your side of the contract.
  
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- anewfox@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  if you pay with a credit card, your cc provider likely provides this same shipping insurance already. and there’s chargebacks for the rest of cases.
  
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- prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I thought they sold their stuff through Heatonist? Or not anymore?
  
  The handful of times I ordered from Heatonist, I had no problems whatsoever (besides the Queen Majesty Scotch Bonnet & Ginger bottle being wayyyyy too fucking small)
  
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neidu3@sh.itjust.works ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I’m gonna start a competing “package tailing” service. I’ll sneak from shadow to shadow and always stay two cars (or bicycles) behind the courier, wearing a dark trenchcoat and report any updates to you. When your package arrives, I’ll show up at the same time, surprising the courier/carrier with fresh polaroids taken through a tele-lens.

It won’t be cheaper, but helluva lot cooler.

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- ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’d like to tell you about my new tail tailing service. Because you can never be too careful.
  
  P.S. I wear two hats.
  
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- TR3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  “I needed a drink, I needed a lot of life insurance, I needed a vacation, I needed a home in the country. What I had was a coat, a hat and a gun. - and a package to follow” *Philip Marlowe *
  
  (well not quite, had to add the part about the package 😉)
  
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Squizzy@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Its not your until it is received, what is package protection?

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- ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Essentially a bunch of retailers decided they don’t want to absorb “the costs of doing business” anymore so they now charge $1-5 fees to cover when they have to replace a package that is damaged or lost in shipping. They sell it as “package insurance” but it’s once again consumers getting shafted to offset what was typically seen as a potential liability in running a business based around shipping. As a bonus if you don’t pay their extortion and your package is lost or damaged they will tell you to go fuck yourself
  
  See also: merchants charging a ~3% fee if you use a credit card because similarly covering the cost of a payment processor is increasingly becoming a cost that is not absorbed. Even with medical practices!
  
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  - chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    The Credit Card fee makes sense if they accept non-card payments. If they just build the 3% into all prices, then they’re effectively collecting the fee for people who pay via other means as well.
    
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  - Zikeji@programming.dev ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    In the US at least, this is why you use a credit card. If your package gets lost in transit and the merchant refuses to remedy the issue, that’s a easy dispute for merchandise not received. It doesn’t matter what the merchant tells you, it’s their responsibility to ensure the merchandise arrives.
    
    That being said, every shipping protection scheme I’ve personally seen is billed as a convenience feature - “less hassle”.
    
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  - historicaldocuments@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    See also: merchants charging a ~3% fee if you use a credit card because similarly covering the cost of a payment processor is increasingly becoming a cost that is not absorbed. Even with medical practices!
    
    At least this is easy to understand, though. Credit card processor charges us X% so we’re passing that on. We used to eat it or fold it into business costs, but with the economy doing it’s slow-death we can’t anymore.
    
    What really gets me, especially with large purchases like a medical bill or a transmission replacement for example is that 3 or more % quickly becomes advantageous for the processor. On a $10,000 that 3% becomes $300, and it did not get $297 more expensive to wiggle some bits around over a $100 payment’s $3. Then, some businesses decide that the best way to offset that cost is something akin to an ACH transfer…just hand over your bank account information and don’t worry about it!
    
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- betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Gloves for using the bathroom after handling their products.
  
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dan@upvote.au ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I don’t think this is even legal in some jurisdictions.

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thesohoriots@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Related: suggested tips “for the team.” I don’t even know if I like your product yet. This ain’t a service. Don’t swivel the virtual iPad.

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MehBlah@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Sure would be a shame is something happened to your package. You never know.

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altphoto@lemmy.today ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
How about just package surveillance… secret surveillance. You know, they’ll watch the package but if something happens they do nothing and don’t tell you anything about it.

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