"Censorship" ☠️

Comments

• orenj@leminal.space ⁨6⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

  in THIS political climate? The president of the US is gonna go after them, lol

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• farmgineer@nord.pub ⁨9⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

  Anything -con in japanese is a complex and almost certainly up to no good. I just checked with my wife (native japanese) and, yeah, that’s not necessarily wrong translation.

  She carves out the exception for jokes with a younger partner within reason (her specific was example was a couple/few years younger in a piss-take (like someone might say “she’s robbing the grave” but the counterpoint would be “no he’s robbing the cradle!” In English banter)), but it’s almost always not a good thing.

  My personal take is that if it’s specifically referencing the ~loli fashion or the piss-take version from my wife, that’s probably ok. Anything else is getting into dangerous territory.

  I’m a guy in his mid-40s originally from the US and not generally into manga or anime at all, my wife a late-30s japanese who is very into anime and manga

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• BrickEater@lemmy.world ⁨57⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

  Lolicons and MAPS are both Pedophiles by any other name. Stop fuxking normalizing child abuse, drawn or not.

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  • lime@feddit.nu ⁨2⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    i don’t think this is normalising, is it? if anything the tone of the tweet almost makes it feel like they’re offended that the two things are being compared.

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• kboos1@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Is it not? The definition is the sexualization of a minor or prepubescent girl in anime/manga. Sounds like pedophilia to me.

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  • nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf ⁨15⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    Per ICD-11, pedophilia can’t be diagnosed if attraction is not acted upon or is distressing the patient. Also it doesn’t count cases where attraction is not primary.

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  • lime@feddit.nu ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    especially in the context of an in-universe character saying it, yeah

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  • dreamy@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Yeah, it is.

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  • turdas@suppo.fi ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    It has a wider variety of usage in Japanese than “pedophile” does in English, so no, it’s not always the most accurate translation. For example, “lolicon” (ロリコン) is used self-referentially, sometimes as a joke and sometimes not, in Japan while “pedophile” is basically never used like this in English. It’s also not too uncommon to use it of another person as a relatively lighthearted jab in Japanese, when in English calling someone else a pedophile (or even the more casual pedo) is a grave accusation.

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    • Saapas@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      But isn’t it used about people who are into sexualized (cartoon) children?

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    • sem@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      That is so weird to me that a society with much more Shame basis for stuff does not shame attraction to and relationships with minors.

      On the other hand I’ve always wondered when is shame effective as a social motivator to prevent misdeeds, and when does it push people to hide their problems instead of seeking help and solutions?

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  • DeadDigger@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Well no. Pedophilia is the attraction to real children and lolicon is the attraction to illustrations of child like characters that doesn’t even need to be sexual. The translation is also wrong because in Japanese there exist the loanword pedophilia and it was not used in the original so the translation is also wrong.

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    • flandish@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      this isn’t some baudrillard level type of simulacra shit, it’s literally people using cartoons as analogs to their real attractions, so yes, they are pedos. much in the same way police are pretending to be heros. they all deserve prison. the former and the latter.

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    • Zamboni_Driver@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      There is a big difference between these too.

      🤣🤡

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    • Saapas@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      If you’re into these depictions because they’re depicted as children…

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  • Lumidaub@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Hence it wouldn’t be “censorship” as the article seems to use the term. Though that doesn’t really apply at all because to “censor” it would be to not include the scene at all or rewrite it to say something else entirely. Saying “you like lolicon” or even just “you’re a pervert” might be considered euphemistic but it’s not censorship.

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  • gon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Well, no, that’s not what it is. It’s young and young-looking characters, not “minor or prepubescent”.

    Mind you, plenty lolicon stuff is extremely pedophilic, namely by sexualising prepubescent characters! But lots of it is adult women that just look young and are explicitly not children in any way.

    It’s more complicated than “pedophilia”, though the overlap is… Let’s say… Conspicuous.

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    • Saapas@piefed.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      But lots of it is adult women that just look young and are explicitly not children in any way.

      Often mocked with the “9000 year old vampire dragon who just happens to look like a young child”

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• thepig@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The question I always asked is: does the legalization of such material lead to a decrease in sexual abuse of children or an increase ? There will always be pedophiles, that we can’t avoid, what is important is to stop them acting upon their desires and abusing minors, to this end, would lolicon help by giving them materials that where created without harming children ? Or would it empower them to harm children ?

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  • Dookieman12@piefed.social ⁨21⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    At best, I imagine it would be like being addicted to cigarettes but only having a fruity vape. Yeah, it’ll get the monkey of your back, but it isn’t truly satisfying, and the second you can have what you really want, you’re going for it.

    The difference is, a smoker can quit, but a pedophile will always be a pedophile.

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  • dreamy@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It’d seem that there isn’t really that much research in this area. This is the only article I could find directly related to child SA, with a helpful conclusion:

    In this work, we have established how people with attractions to children are seeking sexual satisfaction using a range of different forms of FSM depicting children. We found no evidence that engaging with sexual fantasy and various forms of FSM was associated with variance in self-reported willingness to engage in sexual offences involving children, despite substantial numbers in our sample expressing a willingness to engage in these behaviours. Instead, we found that those who were more sexually satisfied reported a lower level of willingness to engage in such behaviours, while those who held offence-supportive beliefs reported a higher willingness. We urge researchers and clinicians to use our work as a springboard for further studies on the pursuit of sexual satisfaction, the addressing of sexual frustration. All of this should be conducted within the context of reducing potential risk, while encouraging a more evidence-informed social conversation about the importance of sexuality considerations in this area.

    www.tandfonline.com/doi/…/19419899.2026.2619511#d…

    Though I think that banning lolicon drawings would just make pedophiles go and consume actual child pornography, which is arguably worse.

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    • thepig@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Makes sense. As a clinical psychologist I am often frustrated by the lack of proper research done of pedophiles, I get it that is a very sensitive and disgusting matter for the population but we need data to identify and help this people before they commit crimes, just pretending they don’t exist and waiting for the crime to happen is not helping anyone.

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    • Klear@piefed.world ⁨49⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      There is also a study of how availability of porn in general affected sex crime after the 1989 revolution in Czechoslovakia. Tl;dr aside from an uptick right after (which can be attributed to the country no longer being a police state) both child abuse and rape dropped, while other violent crime has not.

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    • hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Obviously

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  • usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca ⁨48⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    It’d be useless as a way to satiate pedophiles if they aren’t even into it.

    If the often stated things about pedophilia being more of a mental illness and mainly about power, then I’m curious how much overlap there is between people who are into anime lolis and “actual” pedophiles. Is that Venn diagram basically a circle, or is there little overlap? I suspect it’s closer to the minimal overlap end and lolis are like other people who are into more extreme fetishes in fantasy but not reality.

    Not sure how you’d go about figuring this out though.

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  • fonix232@fedia.io ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    Sadly there doesn't seem to be any reputable studies in this field - probably because it's super controversial to begin with.

    On one hand you have people saying - rightfully so - that such media should be restricted, because even though some argue (without proof) that it reduces harm, it also enables the core behaviour of sexualising children to be socially acceptable because "oh it's just a drawing".

    (mind you it's important to distinguish a very similar argument from furries - furries are often claimed to be zoophiles, however an overwhelming majority of furries are against bestiality, and doesn't even sexualise their characters, which are usually anthropic - human shaped with animal physical characteristics - and sapient, therefore able to consent. A child, regardless if they're real or drawn, cannot consent).

    On the other hand, some claim that it reduces harm by "disarming" paedos. Obviously those opposing then claim that no, it's actually harmful, because just jerking off to drawings won't be enough for most, and slippery slope fallacy ensue, they'll be gone from jerking to drawings, to kidnapping and raping children.

    Again the problem is we don't have any data supporting either way. In my opinion, it could go either way, it heavily depends on the person, and without a thorough study, but that study wouldn't be ethical to conduct because of the potential of endangering children one way or another....

    And of course the moment one tries to debate for "on the other hand", that person will be labelled a paedophile, rightfully so, as they're literally campaigning for the legalisation of children's sexualisation in their specific way... which, at the end of the day, is paedophilia.

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    • Dookieman12@piefed.social ⁨24⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      it also enables the core behaviour of sexualising children to be socially acceptable because “oh it’s just a drawing”.

      By your logic, people shouldn’t play Call of Duty either because it enables the core behavior of shooting people with guns to be socially acceptable because “oh it’s just a video game”.

      By your logic, any movie or book depicting any illegal act shouldn’t exist because it would “enable the core behavior to be socially acceptable”.

      Sorry, that one doesn’t hold water for me.

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  • hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I think help, because they would like the drawings more and more and the real deal less and less.

    You see people who are obsessed with anime, be super attracted to anime characters and little to no attraction to real women.

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    • thepig@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Interesting take, but again, we need real empirical data wich unfortunately doesn’t exist on this subject.

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  • helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I think its the same circular argument about guns in video games, does running around GTA shooting everyone give someone their “fix” or will it encourage them to go do it for real?

    If the fake stuff gives people their “fix”, then so be it. Anyone that harms a real child can have their 2nd head publicly removed to discourage others. Not sure what to do if they don’t have that part, but a punishment like that will never happen so oh well.

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    • fonix232@fedia.io ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      Problem with your "solution" is that it's reactive. "anyone that harms a real child can have their 2nd head publicly removed" - that doesn't help the child that was raped, doesn't prevent future cases, and so on. Reactive punishments simply don't work, because there's diminishing returns when it comes to the layer of society that the law is required because of...

      Proactive handling is the ideal solution - destigmatise the issue, while still punishing the act itself. Being attracted to children isn't the (criminal) problem, acting on that and raping children is. But to resolve that you need to treat the source of the problem, the attraction itself. Which means people need to be comfortable to admit it to a medical professional, and receive appropriate help for it.

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• ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

  If those anime fans could read they would be very upset

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  • makeshiftreaper@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    Look, there’s a lot to criticize anime fans about including media literacy and the aforementioned pedophilia. However if there’s something they famously care about it’s the words that they have to read to understand their shows, they can definitely read

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• mtpender@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I mean, they’re not wrong…

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  • Mwa@thelemmy.club ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    True

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• ClipperDefiance@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Sankaku is funny for all the wrong reasons. I remember when Free! came out and they were absolutely seething that KyoAni was catering to women for once instead of them.

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• hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Lolicons are not really pedophiles.

  Even with anime fans, you usually see them prefer anime characters increasingly the more they consome anime (or hentai)

  I think the same applies here

  Of course I predict that people will agree with me until 1 idiot pedophile who is an anime and lolicon fan actually does something to a real kid, and then everyone will generalize lolicons and say like “we knew it all along, all lolicons are pedophiles!!!”

  You can see such generalizing cases and behavior everywhere.

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  • BrickEater@lemmy.world ⁨58⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    Nah Loilcons are Pedophiles. Stop trying to normalize it, its no better than the MAP assholes.

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    • hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨51⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      Probably not true, did you read past the 1st sentence?

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  • fonix232@fedia.io ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    "oh, I only jerk off to fictional underage children, not real ones! I'd never touch an actual child!"

    yeah, fuck off paedo. get help. there's plenty of psychotherapy options to curb these urges.

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    • hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      It is you need a reality check

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  • Zamboni_Driver@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Why wait?

    we knew it all along, all lolicons are pedophiles!!!

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• hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I think lolicon animes and … things related to that help everyone a lot, because they would like the drawings more and more and the real deal less and less.

  You see people who are obsessed with anime, be super attracted to anime characters and little to no attraction to real women.

  Now tell me thats not the case

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  • Zamboni_Driver@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Help “everyone”??? Lol.

    In what way would it help people to be more attracted to drawings than to real people? What’s wrong with being attracted to “women”. Women being by definition, adults.

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    • hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I meant loli anime characters*

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