Yeah, we know Bethseda does not have ‘the engineering knowhow’, we’ve known that for like a decade now.
Fallout: New Vegas dev says don't expect a remaster, argues Bethesda doesn't have the source code or 'the engineering knowhow'
Submitted 2 weeks ago by cybercafe@lemmy.world to games@lemmy.world
Comments
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
this comment is so filled with disinformation that it must be ragebait
for one, the bonus was a tacked on thing bethesda threw in as a freebie, which obsidian devs (i think it was sawyer) said would just be going to the shareholders/business people up stairs
for two, obsidian is the one who set the timeframe to make the game, and obsidian is the one who denied the devs more time, no matter how much they asked
for three, thats not objective in the slightest
for four, only for the first quarter of the game. the rest being a bunch of almost optional fetch quests, with some main quests sprinkled in
for five, not confirmed anywhere
for six, because obsidian was ran like absolute garbage back then and couldnt even afford another month to fix bugs because they would have went under due to the incompitance of the ceos of obsidian
my internet is not good right now so i dont feel like finding sources, but i know sawyer, avellone, and a few other obsidian devs have said as much
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
New Vegas doesnt need a remaster, anyway.
It needs a Remake
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
with the cut content restored and an actually fleshed out legion
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
and less loading screens, especially around new vegas, because they had to cater to the ram limits of the consoles at the time.
graynk@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I’m of a firm opinion that no game needs a remake. Fixing up old games so that they can be played on modern systems - yes please. Remaking the same game but “”“better”“” - no thanks, I’d rather see something original and new come out
There are some exceptions like Pathologic 2 which is basically a remake but also a reimagining, but those are exceedingly rare.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
I’ll disagree a bit. Angel of Darkness should definitely have been a Remake.
They must have put so much effort in to get that just as crappy as the original.
MrFinnbean@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I must disagree.
Like while i can still fully enjoy old resident evil games, because i have nostalgia for the i fully understand why people who are born after they have been made would be put of by them.
By remaking those games they could indruduce the game to whole new audience who would never play the yanky outdated versions.
More extreme example. I would love to have modernised version of Betrayal at Krondor. It had good story. The core gameplay and world was great and there was intresting mechanics, but it was released 1993, so it by modern standards it looks like garbage and the ui is very unintuitive.
Most gamers now will never experience that story and those who do, will not get the same experience i got, because they will look everything in the game as a product of its time and the focus will be on the retro aspect, not on the game it self.
sturmblast@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sequql…
SolarPunker@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
No
akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Virginity: I’m the only thing you can lose and never get back 🥰 Source code: Hold my beer 🍺
blarth@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Arguably the people who created New Vegas didn’t have the engineering know how, lol.
zarathustrad@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Are you telling me severed arms are NOT supposed to rubber band across the ground as Deathclaws with power gloves fly like rockets across the horizon?
I thought that was cannon.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If you’re using a cannon I think this is WAI
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Powering the metro with people is totally normal, not body horror sort of stuff.
Now get back to your ditch, car 43!
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That was BioWare and Fallout 3.
pyre@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
the engineering was Bethesda’s, though
blarth@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Why thank you for the correction.
TheGreenWizard@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Bethesda really shouldn’t be allowed to own these IPs anymore at this point, idk who in the AAA scene would do a better job, but something’s gotta give. They don’t give a single shit.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
The AAA industry is obsessed with using their own game engines, to the point where the AA industry can run circles around them using Unreal.
You can give the IP to a random Norwegian (they’re always Scandinavian) game studio you’ve never heard of before and get a better product.
Rooster326@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Oh yes Unreal.
The one that is causing the majority of games to play like dogshit at 20 fps with mandatory frame generation
DisgruntledGorillaGang@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Norwegians are always Scandinavian, correct.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Not triple A but Inexile and Owlcat could probably handle the series pretty well. Also throw Elder Scrolls to the guys who made Tainted Grail.
Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Bethesda also kept them from getting a fat payout so the devs are very unlikely to help.
Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Bethesda just kept them to their original contract and didn’t pay anything they weren’t required to. I mean, it would have been a nice “thank you” for almost meeting their goals. But they didn’t.
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The promised bonus was dependent on what rating the game got from Metacritic. If it got an 85 or better, they got the bonus. It got an 84 and specifically lost points due to the rampant bugs. BioWare was responsible for bug testing and QA according to the contract.
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
i believe it was sawyer who said he blames himself for that because he did not pivot the team to work on bug fixing until it was way too late
moakley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Doesn’t sound like they’ll necessarily be honest about the situation either then.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Well yeah.
It was made by Obsidian, not Bethesda.
Renacles@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That sounds a bit strange, the source code for nearly every script that handles quests, mechanics and such is bundled with the game and what modders have been using since release.
Unless I’m misunderstanding something, I don’t see why a remaster like Oblivion’s would be impossible. It runs on top of the original game anyways.
bigmamoth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Cause the real reason which is well known is Bethesda higher up dont like the fact it s the most loved fallout post Bethesda acquisition and wasn’t made by them
Psythik@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well they need to make better Fallout games, then.
Zahille7@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s literally not true. It’s false information spread by fanboy dickriders like you
I don’t mean to sound like an asshole, but this whole “NV was the best game ever made” is getting REALLY old, especially now 16 years after the game released.
rhombus@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
That’s a solid point. Assuming their bespoke Unreal Engine/Gamebryo hybrid engine can run the scripts, there’s no reason it couldn’t be “remastered” in the same way.
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Eventually you will want to change the lighting or fix a high severity bug. You need the source to recompile or repackage.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Just make a new game. This remaster bullshit is awful. You don’t even need to make a new game engine, just use the assets you have and make more stories. Call it a dlc and put the original game out there for $20 and the dlc for $50 and all you had to really invest in were story writers, a few expensive devs to make new assets, and a room of 1099s to help fix code issues.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
See there are a couple of problems with this plan.
- Emil Pagliarulo is complete self-sucking hack at this point, who quite literally could not write a coherent, engaging story, with characters that actually act and speak like human beings, in a world that is actually consistent and makes sense… if he tried.
As evidence of this, please see anything he’s done in the last decade.
So unless you’re gonna fire him and everyone he’s molded, no shot.
He was also the design director of Fallout 76 and Starfield.
Which are essentially perfect examples of both incompetent game design and execution of ssid design.
Literally, he is the primary problem with Bethesda as a game developing company.
- The entire problem is that you, like the rest of AAA gaming, have the game dev prioritization backwards.
You want the actual experts to fix and refactor the engine. Having contractors do all that for the last decade plus is why everything is broken now; bandaids upon bandaids produces code necrosis.
Assets, on the other hand, are broadly much simpler, (presuming you habe templates and standards as determined by the engine), and there are way more people who can produce quality assets than there are people who can fix and refactor core engine code competently.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Fnv was nearly unplayable at release due to bugs…
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Remastering and remaking an existing game is much easier than making a new game that’s actually good. Why do you think so many AAA companies have become obsessed with remakes and remasters? They’ve lost the creative talent to be able to make brand new hit games. And they’re too risk-averse to even try!
If you want new games that are actually good and innovative, your best bet is indie games. Indie games are more innovative and less risk-averse, operating on a sink-or-swim model (many separate indie game devs all competing).
njm1314@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They didn’t need to add the last part but I’m so glad that they did
tourist@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Todd Howard seething
slaacaa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Copilot: New Vegas
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I do find it odd that Bethesda, as the IP rights holder and publisher of the game, was not given a copy of the source code? Whats the story with that?
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean this politely but… read the article?
DarkMetatron@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Source code gets lost all the time, for all kinds of reasons.
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Let me guess someone stole their sourcecode
Mwa@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
so people have to reverse engineer the game and try to make a remaster ig?
Therms45@europe.pub 2 weeks ago
Or they can just play the original and stop making the world a worse place to live for everyone else
Cytobit@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Avellone bragging that his game’s code has security-through-spaghetti.
Zink@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Now there’s a term I have to find a way to use at work tomorrow!
fun_times@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I dream of a sequel that focuses on the consequences of the legion falling apart after the second battle of hoover dam.
Basically a game where one faction wants to turn the remnants of the legion into a unified democratic republic (perhaps a mixture of the Roman senate and the NCR), another faction wants to find a new caesar (and possibly reform some of the stupider sides of the old legion) and a third faction just wants to go back to being a bunch of independent tribes that only trade with each other.
You would play as the grown up child of a legionaire who died at hoover dam and a slave who was sold off to somewhere else when you were young.
Laricheard@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I find the idea that all old games need remasters/remakes very disrespectful tbh. Artists worked hard on those games back in the day. I can justify improvements to performance but updating lighting and textures to be prettier or more realistic often misunderstands what the original game was going for.
EvasiveSpecies@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
While I understand you reasoning (although I don’t necessarily think that remasters/remakes are bad) I am not a fan of Bethesda’s current visual style for Fallout compared to Fallout 3/New Vegas in general so in this caae I’d fear they would change some really iconic designs. Oblivion afaik did it well but New Vegas and 3 fans are VERY protective of their precious games so I’d expect a lot of wariness and criticism. Plus, yeah, performance updates would be the biggest factor to include especially considering how bad New Vegas runs without mods but knowing Bethesda I would not be too hopeful lol. I’d still kill for a remaster but I’ll remain sceptical.
MBech@feddit.dk 2 weeks ago
I’ve been playing a lot of Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction lately, and the graphics are a huge part of what makes the game feel like it does. The remaster is really good, but it doesn’t really hit the same vibe. What the old game (and a loooot of other old games) needs is a whole buttload of quality of life features. Something different mods have done a very good job of taking care of for Diablo 2.
vga@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
They could hand it over to Nightdive Studios. They did a banger job with System Shock.
nightlily@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Ah yes because F:NV was such a technical masterpiece. What a ragebait statement.
Dojan@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
I mean hardly, but neither has any of Bethesda’s own games. The New Vegas team did what they could with the broken tools that Bethesda makes, and they managed to craft a fantastic narrative, something Bethesda will never come close to delivering.
nightlily@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Cool but the narrative doesn’t have anything to do with technical expertise like Avellone is claiming. It was way more buggy than Fallout 3. and some of us are old enough to remember that.
TheHotze@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Less that they lack the technical expertise to remake it completely, but they lack the technical expertise to remake it cheaply and quickly without the source code. At that point they might as well make a new fallout game.
nightlily@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
That’s not the claim of the article though. Avellone is ragebaiting in a desperate attempt to stay relevant. It’s an absurd claim to make in context - especially from a game/narrative designer.
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Obsidian hasn’t made a good game since… So why are they throwing shade?
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Have you considered doing an AMA on your life as a blind person ?
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’m afraid I’d be unable to respond to all the questions since I can’t read!
graynk@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I take it you haven’t played Pentiment
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Pentiment was great. You can feel that it’s made with so much passion.
I played with a friend who was a medievalist sitting beside me, and she confirmed that all the weird and wonderful marginalia animals were from actual manuscripts
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
avowed was not bad. outer worlds tho…😬
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Outer Worlds was fantastic.
Can you make legitimate criticisms about some of it? Sure. You can make legitimate criticisms about anything.
But the overwhelming amount of hate I’ve seen was from fanboys who deluded themselves into thinking it was gonna be New Vegas in space, When nothing even remotely close to that was hinted.
Also, they’ve made a TON of fantastic games.
Alpha Protocol was a mindblowing game with a depth and complexity that still makes it playable today, 16 years later (technically it came out before New Vegas, but Alpha Protocol doesnt get enough love so I’ll mention it when ever I can)
As for post-New Vegas games…
Stick of Truth was wildly succesful
Pillars of Eternity was wildly successful, and created a franchise for them.
Tyranny was fantastic and fresh
Outer Worlds I already covered.
Never played Grounded but it must be wildly fuckin popular to be getting a sequel and a TV show.
Zahille7@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You play Grounded yet?
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
That’s a bit silly thing to say tbh. There’s nothing special about NV that can’t be recreated without source code.
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Especially when the community makes games like fallout London on their own time. Fucking copout from weak ass developers.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Tbf he’s a writer, left obsidian long ago, and only info of this is a few dev inside bethesda who probably don’t care enough to answer him seriously
jasoman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Just like trading in rocket league. So sad.
billwashere@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sounds like an excuse more than a reason.
Dearth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I never played new Vegas. I hadn’t played a fallout game since fallout 2. I bought new Vegas when it was on steam sale for $0.99. I was having fun playing, exploring the wastes. Got about 20 hours into it and now it won’t open. Game crashes as soon as i click load save.
So disappointing. I finally get to new Vegas and meet mr house. And i can’t do anything else.
NeptuneOrbit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Reboot reboot reboot
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
Copilot please remaster Fallout New Vegas