It’s from the brain damage.
Save me from going down a dark path
Submitted 2 weeks ago by restingOface@quokk.au to [deleted]
https://quokk.au/static/media/posts/1y/ZB/1yZB8PHEizgGwME.jpg
Comments
yaroto98@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Carmakazi@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
It’s because they deliberately proselytize to vulnerable people at their lowest with promises of belonging and redemption.
TheAsianDonKnots@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
To expand on this, AA is run by Christians that tell you only God and the baby Jesus can save you. Then they wait outside the meetings and pass out propaganda pamphlets. Scientology waits outside NA meetings. They are preying on the weak. It’s gross.
Wrong answers only… who hangs outside Sexual Compulsive Anonymous?
Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
And also the brain damage.
Echolynx@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
And it’s a straightforward, hands held path to wipe away your sins and claim a clean conscience. Of course people will be tempted.
Linken@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I quit drinking and thankfully never had to go to a meeting, but I’ve always heard that the only way through AA is with God.
I’ve been an atheist my entire life, so I don’t think that would have worked for me lol hopefully we’ll never know.
Fear_and_loathing@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I did need AA to get sober. Also as an atheist, it took me quite a few meetings to find a group that aligned with that. I honestly stayed away from getting help for a long time due to my concerns with the faith aspect.
My GOD was a Group Of Drunks in a meeting that I believed in and we helped each other stay sober.
Haven’t been to a meeting in five years. However I don’t think I would have gotten sober eight years ago without the community I found in AA.
Still very much an atheist. Probably more so now than before.
Linken@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s awesome!! I’m proud and happy for you!
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It works for some, and good for them. For me, my health choices have nothing to do with faith, and there’s no need to manufacture a big performance around sobriety, and make it my whole personality. I’d rather have and keep the quiet comfort of taking care of myself, to myself.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
AA is strictly religion wrapped up with pseudo-science. I think they have worse results than not attending any program.
MML@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s fun watching people who understand the ACAB concept turn around and go to church, like have you even begun applying the same logic there?
brognak@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Literally why The Satanic Temple has the Sober Faction. Secular support groups for recovery as opposed to first step put your faith in sky daddy.
Thteven@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Plus you get to say “I stay sober with the help of the Satanic Temple”. Guaranteed for a fun reaction.
Zink@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I’m sober for Satan! How 'bout you?
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
either drugs, schizo, or STROKE turns you into a nutty right winger. the trifecta.
pyre@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
(sexual) abuse too. this short gives three good examples: shia labeouf, jonathan majors, russell brand.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Do you become an abuser? Or does sexual abuse make you religious?
BanMe@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
AA taught me to pray to myself, because I am the only god (creative force) who is along for the journey in my headspace. It’s actually incredibly effective. Determination setting. We use the word “god” a lot and get so caught up in what it must mean according to large groups, and we lose focus on what it means on an individual scale, which is where recovery happens.
The tip is to find a group full of angry atheists because then you get to use the whole hour unpacking religious trauma and bashing the church while you reclaim these words for yourself - “god,” that’s your word.
kofe@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I just did a short intensive outpatient trauma program where one woman just kept bringing up her faith in a way like “I listen to the top 40 christian hymns to regulate, you should too!” and I was losing my fucking mind. I don’t mind hearing about other people’s faith, but I do when its pushed on me as if I didn’t spend 25+ years screaming at their god begging for help with no answers. I am working toward the mindset you’ve described here, though. I’m saving your comment and pinning it in my journal — thank you
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The state should be barred from imposing religious indoctrination as a “cure” for addiction.
Vupware@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I strongly disagree. As someone who broadly detests religion, I know that the mere act of praying can act as self-confrontation that is otherwise inaccessible in many cases.
BygoneNeutrino@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I think it’s important. Most of the people in AA aren’t religious, but the “program” wouldn’t survive if it lacked structure. People use the religious terminology, but most of them don’t believe it.
1984@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
It works for some people, so its useful. You can call is pseudo science if you want, nobody cares if its science. They just want something that works.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“it works for some people” so does electric shock therapy.
So does lobotomy
So does electroshock therapy
So does sleep deprivation
So does solitary confinement
So does brain washing
… and so on. They all “work for some people”.
Not a good barometer for success. Your logic is horrifying
thorhop@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
-and then inevitably writing a book about it and going to speak public about it at the local prison.
“I was once like you… but then I FOUND THE LORDS PRAYER in my heart. Low and behold, I shortly found cheques for speaking fees in my mailbox. Hallelujah!”
hansolo@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Yeah, but paganism, animism, and Pastafarianism are all valid end points, too.
Worship the sun, it gives us life. What have YOU done for 8 billion people today?
Starski@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Paise bob “Dobbs”
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, but paganism, animism, and Pastafarianism are all valid end points, too.
There’s no social infrastructure behind Pastafarianism. If you’re in the clink for possession, the judge won’t remand you into the custody of a Pastafarian rehab program or grant hours of community service for organizing with Pastafarian social groups. Pastafarians don’t evangelize at local prisons and there’s no benefit to subscribing to Pastafarianism while incarcerated.
The reason people end up “finding religion” is because religious people are finding them. Church groups love scavenging rehabs and prisons for recruits. It’s the bargain basement for human labor
hansolo@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
People “find” religion for all sorts of reasons, not just being emotionally vulnerable.
The social infrastructure for many religions doesnt exist near a person and that doesnt prevent them from following what they want. Immigrants move to places where they’re the only whatever they are. Plenty of people convent to a religion where they’re the only practitioner. Online Buddhist Sanghas serve exactly that group.
I have a friend that is a Unitarian-Universalist because she wanted a chill social group that wasn’t about drinking and matched her ideals. They’re not exactly scooping up huddled masses these days, either.
While I take your point that Pastafarianism isn’t “legitimate” enough to pass muster in a court where religious exemptions might be a defense strategy, that doesnt prevent it from being something that speaks to people. It’s a “religion” highlighting how ridiculous religion can be.
endless_nameless@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, surely the worst part of drug addiction is the uh… Dying? Right?
Pacattack57@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There are things worse than death
endless_nameless@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, like being held in captivity and tortured endlessly. That’s worse than death. I wouldn’t really say becoming religious is on the same level as Guantanamo Bay.
amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
death is caused by overdose or medical malpractice such as refusing methadone during withdrawals. if all substances were decriminalized, the association between drugs and death would mostly go away
endless_nameless@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah sure I agree but also that has basically nothing to do with my comment
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
death is caused by overdose or medical malpractice such as refusing methadone during withdrawals. i
You can’t die from just opioid withdrawal. Alcohol and benzos on the other hand…
doingthestuff@lemy.lol 2 weeks ago
Everybody dies.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
That’s why people should use science backed treatments instead of religious nonsense.
BonkTheAnnoyed@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Plenty of athiests, agnostics, pagans, etc in NA. Look for the queer online meetings for a start.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
amen
hobata@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Not much worse than ass prostituting yourself, I guess. But on the other side, if you sell your ass, you can buy some drugs and be good for a time.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The American social safety net is increasingly a series of MLMs and affinity scams.
Oh hey, you’re homeless? You need health care? You’re looking for child care or food aid?
Become Catholic, join SeaOrg, or get fucked
alekwithak@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
IDK why this comment is downvoted, it’s true. And secular orgs that try to help the homeless like Food Not Bombs get shut down by law enforcement.
1dalm@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Just gonna leave this here…
DagwoodIII@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Heath Ledger has joined the chat.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Excuse me, but do you understand the disgusting weakness of the flesh and the blessed purity of the Omnissiah?
thagoat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Amen!
homes@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
Oh my God, I super agree, probably in a way not a lot of readers here expect.
Joining narcotics anonymous comes with an immediate expectation that you will “except a higher power”. It is step one of “the program”. I find that propane, as an atheist. And it was a huge problem when I tried to join the program.
I won’t get into it further, because it would be long enough for its own post, but the religious dogma in the 12 step programs, including alcoholics, anonymous, is an incredible and introductory load of bullshit that only expands into further and more egregious loads of bullshit as you progress through the 12 steps.
The 12 step recovery programs were invented by amateurs in 1936. If you’re looking to recover from addiction, there have been invented far more effective programs for recovery in the last 100 years by professionals who actually know what they’re doing.
If you want to recover from addiction from alcohol or other addictive substances, do your research. 12 step programs have, at best, a 6% success rate. They are your worst option. You can do better.
lectricleopard@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Wow. Im an atheist. Im in an aa mtg room waiting for the mtg to start. No one gives me shit.
Step 2 is just accepting help. Admitting your not the one that has the all the answers. Every modern treatment ive heard of in 20 yrs either cribs aa, or eventually recommends it. Its not perfect, but I know dozens of people that are only alive because of it.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Different approaches work for different people, and every room and every meeting is different. I’ve personally found Smart Recovery to be more helpful.
night_petal@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
One of the steps is believing in a higher power. I was kicked out of rehab for denying this sentiment. They try to say that “OH, it could be anything!” and then continuously push Bible verses on you. The AA handbook is mostly Bible verses and evangelical propaganda.
The core ideas can work for some people. If those meetings help, despite your beliefs, then keep going. The one thing that has helped me is actually wanting to stop. That takes a lot, even if you don’t recognize it.
They will blab on and on in AA, and it is 100% based in biblical texts (though there is an attempt to include everyone). And, sadly, one of the main things they will do in rehab is force you to sit in “meetings” where they have a guest speaker join. Guess what that speaker does - they try to convince you to join a very expensive rehoming, AA, or NA living facility.
My point is, the end goal is to want, not need, to stop. This takes a lot. After 20 years of drinking I had to want to stop to actually do it. For the same amount of time for smoking, the best I could do was switch to modern nicotine pouches. It worked. I haven’t smoked in about 7 months, but since I don’t want to give up nicotine yet, I can’t. I’m trying to want to.
This is a long comment now, but my point is that the entire goal of the 12 steps sans religion is to convince yourself that you don’t want that anymore.
homes@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
Work it. You’re worth it.
Echolynx@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
There is so much hidden religious dogma in a lot of American society/behavior in particular. It really shines out when you don’t come from a Christian upbringing.
Aneb@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It really shines when you are brought up christian, now atheist, how fucking entwined the state and Church are
WhiteRabbit_33@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Daniella Young (Knitting Cult Lady) is a cult scholar talks extensively about this as well as other cults. I highly recommend her for more info on this and how terrible these groups are for anyone who is interested.
lectricleopard@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’ve followed her for a little bit now. I guess yt could tell I seen a cup of perc coffee or two and showed me her videos about AA. Ill say, she’s not wrong about poor behavior of repected members. She’s missing a lot of context though.
She wants a top down enforcement of policy to root out bad behavior. Completely reasonable in a govt, business, or religion that has leadership that is stable for the most part for years at a time. This is not the case for AA. Most groups that meet on a given day are simply the people in driving range that want to chat and work on themselves a bit in some quick group talk therapy. The membership is informal so as not to put of the reticent. That might sound sus, but these are people that constantly refuse help, easily accessible help sometimes. People change groups, join multiple, join none but attend many, and a manner of things.
Its like asking America as a whole to do better with allowing pdf files to victimize children. Yes, but its not like anyone’s encouraging it… and if anyone is a creep we watch out for it and warn people when necessary. Just like any group of friends in a neighborhood. Which is what we are, imo.
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
They took some anecdotal evidence from people that weren’t addicted to justify the “do it for a higher power.” People with issues (of almost any kind) more often feel shame bc they are letting the “higher power” down. It leads to disaster a lot. I love your insight.
BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
While I largely agree, most (not all, ofc) AA chapters will clarify that a “higher power” doesn’t have to be god. Could be fate, causality, or just the universe in and of itself - the purpose of the step is surrendering and accepting that you alone cannot resolve your addiction.
That being said, religion is pushed on you more often than not and many chapters will end with “the Lord’s Prayer” which always bothered me, along with other issues.
It’s not a perfect system, but it does work for many people and if it has helped you then all power to you (or rather your higher power, I guess)
My main gripe is that it often focuses on the symptoms rather than the root problem. Addiction is often the result of a deeper underlying condition that leads one to seek escape - be that depression, trauma, psychological conditions, etc… Treating only one without the other is frankly a disservice and rarely effective in the long term.
LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Thats true, but then they will turn around and start praying.
“God, grant me the…” It is kind of hard to look past that for some.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
This is such a bullshit cop out
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
SMART Recovery is a science-based alternative that uses Cognitive Behavior Therapy techniques. I don’t know what their success rate is, but people I know have been helped by their programs.
kofe@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yoo I’ve been all up in this thread recommending them. Last I checked they use REBT, which is a kind of precursor to CBT. I didn’t find it the most effective, but I joined a DBT skills group and am making my way through a year long program for that and have found it very helpful. I’m trying to address a lot more than substance abuse, though. Its considered more gold standard treatment for chronic suicidality or people struggling with borderline personality.
Linken@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I appreciate this post!
I’ve never been to a meeting, but I’ve always heard the only way through AA is with God. And as a lifelong atheist, I don’t think that would work for me. I’d just be lying to get them to shut up lol (which would not be doing myself the real service I would need at that point).
I’m surprised there isn’t a more secular AA program. I can see the appeal of AA meetings without the 12 steps piece.
What’s the point of accepting a higher power? Is it so that we can just put the blame on them? Or accept our place in this grand equation? I think we can already do the latter without a god.
I’d love to read more if you do end up making a separate post!
homes@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
I suggest you look into programs like SMART Recovery that are science based.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I’m in the camp that I’ll bite a little, they just have to let me know who the “higher power” is. Require me to make up a floaty ghost that is responsible for everything and all the good stuff is a miracle, but all the bad stuff is from a weaker being that the higher power just ignores… Well that seems a bit like a cop-out.
If that really is who they want me to follow, will they keep PETA off my back, I’ve had a few rough crops and I think I remember a passage that will help… I just gotta find some find some “clean animals”.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I’m in the camp that I’ll bite a little, they just have to let me know who the “higher power” is. Require me to make up a floaty ghost that is responsible for everything and all the good stuff is a miracle, but all the bad stuff is from a weaker being that the higher power just ignores… Well that seems a bit like a cop-out.
If that really is who they want me to follow, will they keep PETA off my back, I’ve had a few rough crops and I think I remember a passage that will help… I just gotta find some find some “clean animals”.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
yeah fuck that i am my own higher power
rumba@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Me too, but I’m also my own worst enemy :)