I’m German and our way of counting is genuinely stupid. 121 would translate to “onehundred one and twenty”. You’d think it’s just a matter of practice but errors related to mixing up digits are statistically more common in German speaking regions. Awesome when it comes to stuff like calculating medication dosages and such. Like it’s not a huge issue but it’s such an unneccessary layer of confusion.
Fucking hell
Submitted 2 months ago by ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a26d464d-f8b9-40a6-a883-46a67faefeee.png
Comments
Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 2 months ago
EddoWagt@feddit.nl 2 months ago
Its so annoying with phone numbers as well, depending how someone pronounces is. My mom always says phone numbers in 2 digits, like 06 12 34 56 78 (06 twelve fourandthirty sixandfifty eightandseventy) and you just get confused because you want to type in the first number pronounced
neatobuilds@lemmy.today 2 months ago
Phone numbers should always be said by individual digits, makes it simpler and faster to type as you’re listening
Slovene@feddit.nl 2 months ago
llii@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
Yes! I’m German and I hat it. It’s also very inconvenient when entering numbers into a spreadsheet or something, because you have to know the whole number before you can start typing it.
LorIps@lemmy.world 2 months ago
ECB@feddit.org 2 months ago
As a non-native working in German, the numbers are one of the trickiest parts.
My jobs generally involve a lot of math and discussions of numbers, and I often struggle with swapping numbers around in my head. Especially because when you get to bigger numbers people often switch between (or use a combination of) listing individual digits left-to-right and saying multi-digit numbers.
The though is when you occasionally notice natives mess it up!
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
My experience living in The Netherlands (which has a similar system) as a non-native whose mothertongue is from the Romance branch is that you eventually get used to it. I think that’s because as your language skills improve you just stop interpreting the parts of the number individually and handle hearing and speaking those “nastier” blocks of two digits as if the whole block is a language expression.
Even better the apparently flip-flopping between one way of ordering digits and another one in longer numbers (for example: “two thousand and two and ninety”) actually makes the strategy of “everything between 0 and 99 is processed as an expression” viable, whilst I’m not so sure that would be possible if instead of 100 numerical language expressions we had 1000 or more.
(If you’re not a Franch native speaker and you learn the language you might notice something similar when at some point your mind switches from interpreting “quatre-vingt” as “four twenty” to just taking it in whole block as an expression that translates to eighty)
Ziglin@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’m bilingual and switch back and forth a lot between languages when I’m not home. As such I often mess this up half way through calculating something.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It just feels weird saying it the other way tho
LorIps@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 2 months ago
Based and logic pilled
FilthyShrooms@lemmy.world 2 months ago
rumba@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Ehh, i’m not giving France a pass either.
The answer to 100 - 8 should not be four twenties and a twelve. We’re counting, not making change.
French counting is bunk. Way, Way, better then Denmark though apparently
Nariom@lemmy.world 2 months ago
the thing nobody mentions is that the 4x20 part became a word that just means 80 in people’s mind, it kinda not literal anymore, but the Swiss and Belgian ways are still better
vandsjov@feddit.dk 2 months ago
I think the first picture jumps over a little bit of calculation:
9 x 10 + 2
2 + 9 x 10
p.s. The third one makes total sense!
StThicket@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Norway used to count like the Germans, but switched after the introduction of the telephone. There were simply too many mistakes when telling the numbers to the operators, that a change was mandated.
Old people might still use the 2+90 variant though, but it is not very common.
brealorg@lemmy.world 2 months ago
So now you’re calling me old? THE NERVE!
dcat@lemmy.world 2 months ago
to everyone who reads this dudes comment and starts imagining 75 year old grandmas saying it: i’m 30 and say 2+90, and it’s still very much a thing.
Nangijala@feddit.dk 2 months ago
That meme is so lame. 92 in Danish is two and a half fives. The 20 part is old-fashioned and literally nobody has used that since the 1800s.
2 and a half fives’ twentieth = outdated cringe. 2 and a half fives = actually how it is said today.
It’s still a friggin nightmare to get someone’s Phone number verbally, though.
1337@lemmy.world 2 months ago
[deleted]drmoose@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s breaking my brain too, what is this cryptography lmao
GoosLife@lemmy.world 2 months ago
No, in Danish the “half five” part means the same as “half past 4” on the clock: 4.5.
Then the part that most people omit nowadays, sindstyvende, means times 20.
(Half past 4) times 20 = 90.
JacksonLamb@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That only makes it worse.
Two and a half fives = 12.
Nangijala@feddit.dk 2 months ago
More like 2 and half fives. Half five is our word for 90. So in essence we say 2 and 90 but the word 90 is half five.
80 is fours
70 is half fours
60 is threes
50 is half threes
40 is forty
30 is thirty
20 is twenty
10 is ten.
Oh and a 100 is a hundred. So I dunno what happened between 50 and 90, but I’m sure there is a funny story behind that somewhere.
petersr@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Dane here. No one actively thinks of 90 (halvfems, 2 and a half fives) as a mathematical expression. Is is just a word for 90. Would it have been nice if that word meant “9 tens”, yes, but Danish is a just a stupid language where you have to learn a bunch of things by heart which sucks.
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 2 months ago
How would you say trump is like Hitler? Do you have to describe the Holocaust in few words within a long ass German style word?
ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Denmark = outdated cringe
Just kidding neighbor, I love you all
Dasus@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Exactly
Base 20, or “vigesimal”.
LocoLobo@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Fun fact, english used to count the same way as german, and it still has the numbers in “reverse” from 13 to 19.
Enkers@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Eleven and twelve kinda are as well. They literally mean “one left” (ain-lif) and “two left” (twa-lif) with the “over ten” being implied.
jaaake@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’m 43 years old and this is the first time I’ve seen an explanation of these numbers. Thank you!
sockenklaus@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
German’s my first language and I am kinda proficient in english but I never realized that the english numbers 13 to 19 work like like ours…
schibutzu@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I’m actually impressed by this map. The French speaking part of Switzerland is not only differentiated from the German speaking part, it is also differently coloured than France, since Swiss French has more sensible numbers.
Hupf@feddit.org 2 months ago
!mapporn@lemmy.world
puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Quatre-vingt douze isn’t incredibly onerous when you use it in practice.
Obi@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Quatre-vingt dix huit or quatre-vingt dix neuf are definitely more of a mouthful and illustrate the point better.
jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
hard agree i actually think france’s method of counting is pretty intuitive
name_NULL111653@pawb.social 2 months ago
Agreed. Fourscore and twelve just works (English used to use this, at least in formal speech and writing).
ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yeah France is fine
hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Finnish is actually 9*10+2
Yhdeksänkymmentäkaksi
Yhdeksän = nine
Kymmentä = of ten
Kaksi = two
CherryBullets@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
French language uses math to speak words if anyone is wondering about France.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Not quite. They just have remnants of an old base 20 system that kicks in for specific numbers.
CherryBullets@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Je le sais, je parle français .-.
frank@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Ugh okay here’s another “Danes shouldn’t be allowed to make number stuff”:
The time 15:25 is “five minutes before half 4”
“Fem minutter i halv fire”
So you round up to 16 before even halfway, what!?
ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That makes perfect sense to me though. In Swedish we’d say fem i halv fyra. Five minutes to half four.
drmoose@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Man 3:25 is right there
frank@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
What’s wrong with “25 over 3?” I see the need for half 4 by itself but things being relative to that is so weird to me
fenrasulfr@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Same in Dutch,
“Vijf voor half vier”
Obi@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Yeah the Dutch way of saying time is also messed up, I still have to think about it for a moment every time.
Luccus@feddit.org 2 months ago
Isn’t it mostly 9*10+2? 9 * ty (implying 10) + 2.
Even german does that, although weirdly the way you can’t just write down long numbers reasily one by one: Zwei (2) und ((and) neun- (9) -zig (*10)).
Enkrod@feddit.org 2 months ago
Note to self: For learning a scandinavian language - learn Swedish instead of Danish.
ap10336@diaspodon.fr 2 months ago
@ObviouslyNotBanana Ninety-two → Nine-ty-two → 9x10+2 :troll:
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Bit of a sidenote.
Are the English numbers 11-20 influencer by the base 20 system of french back when we had French speaking royalty? And for some reason they’re the only unique “digits” for lack of a better term that survived because once we get to twenty it’s a pure base 10 system with a consistent pattern throughout.
I’m hoping someone more knowledgeable than me can tell me if my thinking is correct or not.
ryedaft@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
They must have meant 9*10+2 for most of the countries. For French and Danish you would just remember the word for 90 instead of using logic to get there so they are actually quite 90+2.
letsgo@lemm.ee 2 months ago
We can also do 2+90 here in the UK. There’s a nursery rhyme about “four and twenty blackbirds” that I think the kids are still learning.
sloppychops@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
shakes fist THE DANES!
samus12345@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie…
slappypantsgo@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Is this a Michael Hobbes joke?
Valmond@lemmy.world 2 months ago
97
4x20 + 10 + 7
kameecoding@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The map is wrong, Czechs can do both 2+90 and 90+2, I am not sure if it’s regional within the country, or depends on the context, but they definitely use both versions
KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 2 months ago
Your coloration took an innocent map of Europe and somehow made the thumbnail look dirty. Good job!
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 months ago
That’s four goddamn numbers in a row!
roguetrick@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Four score and twelve.
adi_2787@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And the French way isn’t rotten? Lmao
VonReposti@feddit.dk 2 months ago
Even worse. 90 in old Danish is “halvfemsindstyve” but it is rarely used today. The “sinds” part is derived from “sinde” means multiplied with but it is not in use in Danish anymore. That leaves halvfems, meaning half to the five (which is not used alone anymore) and tyve meaning twenty (as it still does).
We are in current Danish shortening it to halvfems which actually just means “half to the five” in old Danish (2.5) to say 90. 92 is then “tooghalvfems” (two and half to the five, or 2+2.5). The “sindstyve” part (multiplied with 20) fell out of favour.
So we at least have some rules to the madness. Were just not following the at all anymore.
HorreC@lemmy.world 2 months ago
How did you guys even get to this thought process for saying this sort of thing? Why would you work in fractions for whole numbers in language to start? Is this a monarch thing like they fancied themselves a math wizard so they said it like it was a solution on countdown and others mimicked to keep them happy/sound smart themselves?
VonReposti@feddit.dk 2 months ago
The reason is that the Danish numbering system is based on a vigesimal (base-20) system instead of the decimal system. Why is a good question but it might have been influenced by French during a time where numbers from 50-100 is less frequently used, making them prone to complexity. The fractions simply occur since you need at least one half of twenty (10) to make the change from e.g 50 to 60 in a 20-based system.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Little fun-fact: We still have a trace of this left in Norwegian, where the most common way to say “1.5” is not “en og en halv” (“one and a half”) but “halvannen” which roughly translates to “half second”.
We abandoned the “half third”, “half fourth” etc. very long ago (if we ever used them), but “halvannen” just rolls nicely off the tongue.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Dane here. My guess is utter madness resulting from a history of overdosing on fly agaric filtered through the urine of slaves, followed by a distressingly long period of Catholicism.
Frankly, it’s a wonder that our ancestors didn’t come up with an even MORE bizarre way of saying numbers and other things!
ignotum@lemmy.world 2 months ago
When I’m in Denmark and have to say 92 I just say “kamelåså”
StThicket@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Syglekole?
te_abstract_art@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Oh man, that takes me back.
If you haven’t seen it, enjoy
skvlp@lemm.ee 2 months ago
(5-0,5)20 = 4,520 = 90? 2+((5-0,5)20) = 2+(4,520) = 2 + 90 = 92?
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Image
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 2 months ago
This is making my brain hurt. I need to try reading a few more times but, if I am understanding it correctly, the old Danish way of saying it is mathematically incorrect?
Half-to-five == 2.5
2.5*20 == 50
…
Did I read that correctly?
AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I think it means half less than 5, or 4.5
TaTTe@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’m not Danish, but I think he meant 4.5 instead of 2.5. It’s like halfway from 4 to 5, not from 0 to 5.
A similar word exists in Finnish too, when going from 1 to 2: “puolitoista” translates to “half second”, like halfway to the second number, and is commonly used to refer to 1.5, BUT without any multiplication shenanigans.
lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
I love how halvfems exists but fems doesn’t (and I guess it never did)
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 2 months ago
Sorry to ping you a bunch with replies. I’m curious now, do you have unique numeral symbols for the numbers after 9?
VonReposti@feddit.dk 2 months ago
No, we use the same numeral symbols as everyone else. We just pronounce it in the most unintuitive manner possible.
I can imagine that we once had symbols representing the base 20 system but standardised at some point to decimal symbols. I though haven’t encountered any piece of history to back that up.