How do I realistically get out of the US?

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

Preferably into the EU. I speak some Spanish and I’m set to graduate with an Associates this semester. Hoping to get CompTIA certs sometime soonish and would like to continue schooling to get a bachelor’s in Compsci. Most notable work experience is 2 years in an office setting making collection calls and processing payments. What resources are available to me? Who or what agency/department can I contact to get more information? What’s the pipeline look like?

I know I could look most of this up, but there’s a lot of information out there and some(a lot) of it I find somewhat confusing. Plus, I don’t really even know where to start.

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BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Step 1, figure out if any of your parents, grandparents, or in some cases great grandparents came from somewhere else. Many countries allow near descendents to get citizenship.

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- Quill7513@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  and that’s the true story of how my partner and i figured out that the only non US place that will take us is ruzzia
  
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  - grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    And that’s the true story of how I learned all my Polish ancestors came over before modern Poland was a thing, and thus didn’t have Polish citizenship to pass on.
    
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  - Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    That is a rough one, damn
    
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  - Magister@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    our partner now
    
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  - limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Free benefits
    
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  - Hubi@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Oof
    
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- Trainguyrom@reddthat.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  Step 1, figure out if any of your parents, grandparents…came from somewhere else.
  
  I’m related to 7 different passengers of the Mayflower!
  
  …yup I’m not moving countries the easy way
  
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  - MechanicalJester@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Oh damn maybe we’re related. Wing?
    
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- ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  For great grandparents I go through 23 and me or other similar service, right? I know the grandparents on my mother’s side are Venezuelan and the ones on my father’s side are from the US, I don’t know about further back than that.
  
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  - superkret@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    23 and me is a private company that sells your data and gives you a piece of paper with some percentage points written on it.
    Unless your relatives are still alive and have another country’s citizenship along with the papers to prove it, you’re out of luck.
    
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  - Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    What? Can’t you just ask your mom who her grandparents were?
    
    Although as I type this I realize I have no idea if your parents are still alive, or on speaking terms.
    
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- P00ptart@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I may have to look into this. My grandparents on my father’s side moved here from Norway as children (separate families obviously but immigrated around the same time to the same place, Minnesota) I’d love to go to Norway, I even know a (very) little Norwegian.
  
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Rin@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Semi serious. Who said it is gay to marry your homies?

Image

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- Glitterbomb@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Not OP, where do I apply
  
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  - archonet@lemy.lol ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Seconded
    
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mrtankjump@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
No one mentioned DAFT (Dutch American Friendship Tray) yet. It’s the lowest barrier of entry to EU for English speaking US citizens with no heritage path. It’s just money and grit. Other paths require some amount of chance, be it luck in finding employment willing to sponsor, or acceptance into some student program and hoping you can manage to find employment sponsorship before you graduate. DAFT is strictly having a minimum amount of money (4500 Euro), and then being a successful enough entrepreneur to sustain a life anywhere in The Netherlands.

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- intensely_human@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  You think being an entrepreneur is more of a sure thing than finding an employer?
  
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  - DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Being and entrepreneur in a new country with a different culture and set of laws
    
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  - olafurp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    80% of startups fail as a benchmark. It’s pretty tricky to create a company.
    
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- ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Huh, didn’t know that. It is pretty hard to start a business, but the process itself seems pretty straightforward. I’ll keep this in mind and look into it more, thank you.
  
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viking@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Associates degrees are non-existent and not recognized in the EU, and most if not all countries require you to be a graduate to be eligible for hire, which would make a student visa the easiest route.

Luckily many countries offer tuition completely for free; though bachelor degrees are often taught in the native language. If you’re Spanish is solid, you could of course go to Spain, else with English you’d be somewhat restricted to Ireland and Malta (English is the second official language, but the primary for tuition).

Other than that, some universities have English taught bachelor degrees, so you’d have to research them individually. Finland is very English- and Tech-friendly, for starters.

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- bdonvr@thelemmy.club ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I don’t think they offer free tuition to non-EU citizens
  
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  - trolololol@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Nordic countries do
    
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  - hraegsvelmir@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    There are countries that do, but you’ll still need to demonstrate that you have the financial means to support yourself without working or needing recourse to public services for the duration of your study, so there’s still a fairly significant financial barrier to entry for most individuals. If you have the money to put down for 3 years of rent, food, utilities, etc, while you complete a degree in Europe, I imagine you’re generally doing pretty okay for yourself in the US.
    
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  - obstbert@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    In Germany “not free” means something like 400$ per semester at the public universities, doesn’t matter the nationality.
    
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  - cows_are_underrated@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    But to be fair, the tuition is quite cheap depending on what and where you study. For myself the tuition is about 50€ per month(I just assume that the tuition is the same for non EU citizens).
    
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bokster@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
EU is not a single country, as the US. Each country has its own rules and regulations.

Some countries, as mentioned, offer a digital nomad visa (Croatia is one of them) others do not.

There’s also something called the Shengen area, which not allows for free movement between countries. Not all EU states participate (yet) and even some non-EU states are part of it. This allows you to have a citizenship in one country and live / work in another.

As for the language, your mileage can vary. Most countries will require at least a basic language knowleget to pass the citizenship test. For day-to-day communication, work and study, you can find options where English would be sufficient. Lots of universities offer English-language programs and lost of companies are international with English being the primary language. Most Europeans speak English quite well.

As others have mentioned, a student visa for one of these would be your best bet. Explore which country would make most sense based on your needs.

If student visa is not an option, then getting a job (in the target country) first would be a way in. Get a working visa and start applying for citizenship.

You should also understand that literary everybody ion Europe (not just EU) has an ID and is registered as a citizen. It’s therefore practically impossible to be undocumented and still get salary, open a bank account or visit a doctor.

TL;DR: Explore each country individually. “Moving to EU” makes as much sense as saying “Moving to Asia”.

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IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Step 1: Marry a EU Citizen

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Enjoy your life

(remember, same-sex marriage is legal in the EU so you got plenty of options, just saying 😉)

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- Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  You still have to learn the language and take citizenship tests to become a citizen in many European countries
  
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- PeroBasta@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Same sex marriage is legal in the EU isnt true.
  
  Basically nothing is “in the EU” There are some general laws that each country applies on their own (often treating them as suggestions and get fined if they dont respect them)
  
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  - lurklurk@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    It’s legal in a lot of the EU though, especially if you stay out of eastern Europe
    
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ikidd@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Get a working visa in AU’s or Canada, stretch it out and in the 5th year when the concentration camps and gas chambers are in full swing, there should be a refugee visa available.

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PDiddyDo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
If Americans could stay in the US that would be great.

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- Kacarott@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Americans who want to leave are clearly able to identify the problems in the US, and are therefore probably not the ones causing the problems over there.
  
  And in general we should welcome people who want to change their life conditions. Freedom of movement is important.
  
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  - PDiddyDo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    No need to take the chance. They got a pass the first time. You don’t get another. You vote in a rapist please stay where you are and deal with it.
    
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- MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Those that want to leave are probably not the ones you want to avoid.
  
  IMO, anyone who is awake and aware of the situation in any capacity, and can think rationally has, or is, considering leaving, or has left already.
  
  It’s the people who agree and are happy with what is happening that you should probably avoid, and they don’t want to leave.
  
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  - AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    There’s a small third category. Those of us that see the problems and are willing to fight and die to try and save our country.
    
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  - Venator@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Those that want to leave are probably not the ones you want to avoid.
    
    They’re probably the ones I want voting there though, would be nice if people would move around more within the US specifically to counteract the gerrymandering and electoral college 😅
    
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- Blaze@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Seems xenophobic
  
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  - GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    that’s because it is.
    
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- GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  fantastic take from someone immortalizing a serial rapist and sex trafficker.
  
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phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Mexico actually is a great country to live. Cheap living expenses, and the food is just ridonculously good. There are always good jobs available for educated people with good English

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- Kacarott@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Out of curiosity, what is the climate/temperature like there, in the big cities? I imagine it being very warm
  
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  - AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Biggest swamp cooler in the world just off the west coast. The closer you get to the Pacific, the more moderate the temperature is. It’s rather cool in Tijuana, currently. (50° F/ 10.5° C)
    
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  - phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Depends in where you are. Mexico is (afaik, I might be wrong) the only country that has every possible climat in the world within its borders.
    
    You can have sweaty hot, but tolerable, in Vallarta, you can have dry hot but very doable.innthe Guanajuato region, you can have a milder climate in Mexico City
    
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olafurp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Student exchange programs - > job - > permanent residence is one of the easiest ways to migrate.

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- Zementid@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Use German Grants for foreign Students and be debt free when you finish. … Even that should set you in front of your peers in the materialistic USA.
  
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- MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  This is what I would suggest.
  
  Looking for grants and bursaries for the effort is something that should always happen. You may get lucky, or not, either way it will probably cost less than the same from an American university.
  
  I mean, I haven’t done this, but it seems logical since OP is looking to further their education.
  
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AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Are you able to spend a lot of money on it? Last I checked, there were a few places in the EU that had a citizenship track if you purchased substantial property. So if you’re in position to buy a nice house, that’s an option. I think Portugal is the most approachable cost-wise. But it’s been a while since I looked at this so I’m sure things have changed.

Several countries will allow extended student visas, even if you only speak English. I think Sweden allows this.

Then of course there’s the easy way: marry a Canadian.

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- shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  You saying we’re easy? I mean… we are but you’re not supposed to just say it
  
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  - hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Sorry
    
    Did I pass the immigration test?
    
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- ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I wonder how substantial they mean. I might be able to afford a down payment on something small, as long as the housing market is nothing like the one here in the States. I’ll look into it, thanks.
  
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  - AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Sorry, it looks like the real estate option in Portugal is no longer available. :( Now it would take a €500K investment in a local business or €250K in a nonprofit. If you’re that stinkin’ rich, you probably have better options already.
    
    According to globalcitizensolutions.com/real-estate-citizenshi… , Cyprus offers a citizenship path with real estate purchase of €300K. Greece and some other countries do, as well.
    
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Brainsploosh@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Getting a student visa is easy and an excellent way to both get valid credentials and a feel for the local culture.

As to where you should go depends on what you’re interested in, you’ll almost certainly be able to make a home wherever, so pick something that seems interesting and go (you can always use your mandated vacation days to explore the rest of EU).

For language, in almost all the major cities people will be able to speak English, although typically you’ll want to learn the local language sooner rather than later for social reasons.

If you know Spanish go Barcelona, beautiful city, vibrant in both culture and industry, and with values not too shockingly different to the US. For more info, either visit the Spanish consulate nearest you or look up their online presence.

If you want to keep to English, consider Ireland, they’ve also had a booming IT industry for all the giants needing a foot in the EU.

Mostly you can’t go wrong anywhere in the EU. Biggest culture shock would probably be the Nordics or Slavic countries, but not necessarily in a bad way.

All of them have tons of info about student visas at each university, the degrees are standardised throughout the EU and most universities are good, and typically outstanding in a couple areas.
For more info you just contact their international coordinator, or their closest consulate.

Most countries also have dedicated Web pages that outline the process, steps, and how you move toward permanent residence and citizenship if you’d want that.

Moving is typically the hard part, but if you start as a student, you’ll have a lot prepared for you (student accommodations, stipends, social activities, part-time job offers, recruitment fairs, incubators, etc.)

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- em2@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I second the student visa route. It doesn’t get you residency right away and is an expensive strategy, but it gets you out pretty quick. You also become more desirable since you have a higher education from a locally known institution. Currently doing this in New Zealand.
  
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- ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I had to look up what a consulate was lol. There’s a Spanish one in the biggest city in my state, 6 hours from me but they don’t have a website, I’ll have to call (or check Spain’s embassy website if they have one). Ireland doesn’t look like it has any consulates in the US, and the embassy is in Ireland itself… most likely will have to call them as well. Thanks!
  
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viscacha@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Your best bet is through a company. If you have a reasonable job opportunity, familiarise yourself with the work visa and residency procedures. Your future employer will likely help you in the process.

However, the economy currently is tough also in the EU, so you’ll need to find a nice.

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iii@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Just show up in Belgium. Ask for asylum. If you’re denied, just stay. Belgium does not deport asylum seekers that got denied.

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- ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  lol does that actually work?
  
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  - iii@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    There’s an estimated 112k people living like that in Belgium (1)
    
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Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Job visa or student visa

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- Tichi@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I think the more difficult question will be … which country. Each EU country has specific laws and procedures. Although you can travel freely this doesn’t mean you can settle wherever you want.
  
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- ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Student visa is the most probable one I could get. The biggest issue is admissions, mainly because of language barriers. With Britain no longer in the EU, my next best bet is Spain because I already speak some Spanish, but I feel like it’s not enough to get accepted there.
  
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  - greywolf0x1@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    If money isn’t an issue or you could get financed somehow, a lot of European universities offer a pre-degree/pre-enrollment year to teach you their languages and prepare you for their entrance exam, you could get in this way
    
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  - Flubo@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Netherlands and scandinavian countries have a lot of courses in english. And ireland of course. Also in germany slowly but steadily english courses are more offered. I would advise you to srudy in english because its hard to study in a foreign language even if you already speak it very good. However i also advise you to learn the local language to connect better to people and culture.
    
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Duamerthrax@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Do you have ancestry from a country that makes immigration easier if you can prove it?

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AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
There are a few weird historical rules which may be useful. For example, if any of your ancestors were Spanish Jews who were expelled in 1492, you may be entitled to Spanish citizenship. The same might go for Portugal.

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- Flubo@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Wow is that true? :D thats a crazy long time ago…
  
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  - viking@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Some countries consider limitless ancestral pathways, but you must have factual evidence (birth records, marriage certificate etc.) that are unquestionable. Several countries also consider the paternal side only, meaning you must be able to trace your lineage through your father’s male family line only.
    
    I haven’t heard of anyone being able to trace their line back to the discovery of America, but who knows. Certainly heard of some Brazilian successfully claiming German citizenship dating back to refugees from WW1, which is already 110 years ago and 3-4 generations later.
    
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ving_thor@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
You could do your bachelor’s in the EU. In that case, I believe the easiest way is by searching for universities that offer studies in english. The university I work at offers a master’s in computer science in English but the bachelor’s is in German. Most international universities also have offices that can help you with organizing your stay and visa.

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Sergio@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
iirc we’re right in the middle of hiring season for college students who graduate in May.

look for job fairs. these are events to recruit college students. sometimes they’re held online. Check out your school’s career center to see what job fairs are scheduled. if you’re at a small school, look at the schedule for nearby larger university. back when they were all onsite, you could usually sneak in, dunno about virtual.

once you get to a job fair look for big international companies. ask about opportunities to work overseas. emphasize your CompTIA certs and ability to speak Spanish. it’d be easier with an undergrad but an associates is doable.

consider going to Latin America, since you know Spanish.

wait, did you say your grandfolks were Venezuelan? check out the Latino alumni club of your college. If your college is too small, check out the club of the nearest large university. If they have a “diversity lounge” with counselors go there and ask for an appointment. a lot of times companies make contact with those counselors for referrals. (I know a lot of companies are closing their DEI efforts but fam this is a cycle that happens every 5-10 years and the Latino/Black/etc people who work in those companies still make an effort to ensure fair hiring even if we have to review resumes in our spare time.)

Anyway, this is something to try alongside the schooling approach.
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ultranaut@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
One potential avenue is getting a job teaching English in another country. I’ve known a few people who did that for a year or two after college and enjoyed the experience. I think the pay is not great, and you’re stuck in a classroom teaching a lot of the time, but it’s a relatively straightforward path out of the country and into a life somewhere else, and with a company involved to expedite the process because they want to make money from you working ASAP.

Getting your BS in CS can potentially help you as well, depending on the country you want to move to. Not an expert but when I was looking into this awhile back I found various countries will give preferential treatment based off things like education and skills. Being a college educated SWE or whatever can make you more appealing to immigration authorities.

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BadmanDan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Illegally cross the border into Canada or Mexico and try to get citizenship before they deport you back.

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- TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Why not legally cross? It’s not that hard to do so.
  
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  - BadmanDan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Because imma bad boy 😎
    
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SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Some countries are easier to get into than others. Start researching which ones have a path that could work for you.

Most are pretty strict but some are more open. If I recall correctly the Nordic countries may be a little easier, but don’t quote me on that. It’s been a long time since I accepted that this country had successfully trapped me here.

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ButWhatDoesItAllMean@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Make sure to research expected pay in your desired target countries. I was shocked when I saw the difference between compsci job salaries in the US and Italy. Can adjust for cost of living differences but it was still a significant decrease. Would be good to be aware ahead of time and not surprised if you’re not happy with the salaries presented.

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- GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  What’s the healthcare cost difference? Student loans?
  
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twinnie@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Look up “working holiday visas” if you’re under 30. It’s a process to encourage people to get world experience while they’re young. I’m sure if you found somewhere you liked you could then try and get something more permanent.

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bdonvr@thelemmy.club ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Do you have ANY Italian ancestry? Even fairly distant like 100+ years ago? Irish grandparents?

Other than that it’s gonna be tough bud.

Not EU but there’s ways to do remote work in other countries… Look into some “digital nomad” communities although they often come across as gross privileged fucks who just want to exploit lower costs of living and not try to fit in at all.

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- Agrivar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  My maternal grandfather was born in Italy and moved to the States as a child. Does that open any doors for me?
  
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  - bdonvr@thelemmy.club ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    It likely depends on if your great-grandparents naturalized as US citizens before your grandfather was an adult.
    
    italiandualcitizenship.net/italian-citizenship-by…
    
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vodkasolution@feddit.it ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
People focus on citizenship but you could just relocate in a EU country, stay as much as you can, then switch country: Portugal, Spain, France, Italy are more than ok, Croatia is growing.
The most important thing to focus on, to me, is what kind of work you can do

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YurkshireLad@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
University fees for foreign students can be very high. For example, I think the fees at Edinburgh university for a foreign student are 3 times the cost for English students, and almost 9 times compared to Scottish students. I’m going from memory here so I could be off a bit.

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pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
if you go to estonia you don’t learn Russian

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Blaze@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
!AskUSA@discuss.online

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GiddyGap@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Go as a student and find a spouse while you’re there for the easiest way to stay after you’re done with school.

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