If you were still wondering if the NYT shills for the oligarchs…
"No precedent in American history!" NYT would have defended child labor.
Submitted 2 weeks ago by VetOfTheSeas@discuss.online to workreform@lemmy.world
https://discuss.online/pictrs/image/01388c24-f281-4cda-ba70-b31b442a4283.png
Comments
thefluffiest@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Always have
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Well the title “Medicare For All Would Abolish Private Insurance” is true though.
The big question is why should we care? Why should this be our problem? Why should our hard earned money be used for profit instead working only as an insurance pool?
Things change, and one has to adapt (just look at the LLM crazy), same with insurance companies. They can similarly adapt and do something different, for example start offering insurances that would be on top of the M4A. Not replacements though. Medicare “Advantage” should be abolished as well.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But, they’re liberals!
/s
raptore39@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I’m starting to think they are putting in subliminal messages, making their base ask ask “hang on, why is this bad?” Much like Fox has the progressive talking points front and center.
FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Abolition would destroy the cotton industry! There is no precedent in American history!
Skyrmir@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My wife needs a surgery thats likely to cost 18 to 20 grand without insurance, and I have to do some really careful math to figure out if putting her on my insurance would actually save us anything.
Most likely flying to Mexico for a week to get it done would be cheaper too.
Drusas@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
I'm here waiting on insurance to approve a medication I need, like, eight months ago and which costs over a hundred thousand dollars per year (before insurance gets the negotiated price).
Skyrmir@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
First set of pills was $483 with insurance. Bought the refill as uninsured, it was $38.
Our insurance industry is so broken it’s really just unfathomable.
Hideakikarate@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
My grandfather needed some medication. Only 3 months, but over $400 a month. I found a Canadian pharmacy, bought 3 months of it, had the doctor fax the script there, and it was less than $300 for the 3 months. It was quite literally a lifesaver for him and their finances.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My brother spent eight fucking weeks with a constant migraine unable to walk or even stand up without falling over, before his insurance finally approved the MRI that discovered the golf-ball-sized tumor in his brain. Muigi Langione is all I can say.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Stopping the orphan crushing machine would abolish the orphan crushing industry. There’s no precedent in American history.
Medicare for All would save a trillion dollars and 114,000 American lives, both annually. Fuck the insurance racket.
GeirGrusom@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Insurance in general should be a public aervice rather than private enterprise and it should not be used for medical care at all.
Lyrl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The public service should provide a universal floor for citizens. There are quasi-medical services like massage that both have medical benefits and are also used more as a spa treatment, and people with pets are finding pet medical insurance more attractive these days. I think areas like that can make more sense to keep private.
Noodle07@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Think of all the bombs the US could buy for Israel with all that money !!
Womble@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
As well as this being stupid for the reasons given, its also just flat out wrong. There is no reason why you couldn’t have additional healthcare insurance to act as a top-up/faster non-essential care/nicer facilities when you are in hospital. That’s how it works in the UK, even with completely nationalized, free at the point of use healthcare there is still room for private insurance, it just has to earn its place rather than being a complete leach.
Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
Exactly this. Universal healthcare still leaves room for private facilities and insurance, it just forces a minimum standard on the market that they clearly don't want in the US
KryptonNerd@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
I will say though that the presence of private healthcare in the UK does make me very uncomfortable, especially with how much the NHS is struggling for money
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
It kinda feels like our postal service in the U.S.
They defund it, then complain about it, then start ranting that it “Doesn’t even make a profit” even though the whole point is that it’s supposed to be an affordable and accessible mail service.
They’re even doing the same thing with schools. The entire conservo-righty playbook anymore is to get rid of our public services so they and their rich buddies have more to gain at our expense.
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub 2 weeks ago
Yep. Same in Australia.
I think 20 years ago an American would have told you they have the freedom to choose the level of cover they want, starting from none at all.
Now things have deteriorated through collusion or corruption or price fixing or whatever.
They’ve made so much money they have too much influence to do away with them.
Abyssian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’ve made so much money they have too much influence to do away with them.
That one guy on the news found a way. I imagine it wouldn’t even take a thousand of us following that lead before things began to change.
SalamenceFury@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Yep. Brazil has both free healthcare and private insurance, and most of the time private is better, but only because they’re directly competing with something that costs nothing. They gotta keep their prices reasonable to be attractive.
helvetpuli@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Being a complete leech is very profitable.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Because in the corrupt US market that would devolve into you either having private insurance, or expect to wait 3 years to get anything done and expect to get mrsa when you do.
The free option would be utter trash, to the point where it would be nearly unusable.
The private sector has actually been nudging things that way for quite a few years now up in Canada.
Medical care shouldn’t be a class system. Flat out.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
oh no, my private insurance, which only gave life saving measure so an astonishing number of people who are alive and thriving today because one of their CEOs got shot in the fucking face, deservedly
Weydemeyer@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Had me in the first half…
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The only thing that we can statistically, empirically prove from that incident is that shooting insurance CEOs in the face provide a net positive for society.
and this theorem could be extrapolated into other segments too, besides healthcare.
Which is why they are so desperate to convict luigi, and why i’m so shocked they havent arranged an “accident” for him yet.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
We have generations of data from countries all over the world with universal healthcare. It costs the people less, undeniably; there’s zero benefit to for-profit private insurance… for people, anyway (not corporations).
I’m not positive, but I think USA is the last “western nation” without it. So… US taxpayers actually send billions to other nations all over the globe, all of which have better healthcare. Nice.
Even Mexico has universal healthcare, soon they’ll be trying to end American migration.
Oh my God, it just dawned on me. Trump was right… Mexico will pay for the wall! Trump’s lowering US citizen’s standard of living so that they will have flee over the border by the millions and viola! Wall.
Brilliant.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
We don’t care. Bankrupt America to death.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Who is this “we” you’re talking about?
Raiderkev@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My only qualm with it is whenever the Republicans get into office, they will weaken or destroy it. If we didn’t have scumbags in office, and scumbags voting for said scumbags, it would be amazing. Universal healthcare is absolutely the way.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Nah, some do dual payer, which is less bad but still not true universal.
It’s basically universal healthcare but with a small excess on it, usually something quite low like €100
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
there’s zero benefit to for-profit private insurance… for people, anyway (not corporations
In germany there are a lot of benefits through. Less waiting-time, broader choice of treatment, better service in hospitals, a room for yourself instead of a shared room, and also a wider choice of places to go. And in the end it’s even cheaper than public health. At least beyond a certain income - threshold. Highly unfair, but…
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
A national law against child labor was passed in 1916, but it was overturned by the Supreme Court in 1918. A 1919 law was also overturned. In the 1920s, an effort to pass a constitutional amendment failed, because of opposition from the South and from Catholics. The Fair Labor Standards Act (part of the New Deal) in 1938 finally ended child labor in factories, mines, and other occupations. Child labor has always been a factor in agriculture and that continues into the 21st century. — Wikipedia
Something tells me if we did a complete archive search of NYT (and, for that matter, WSJ), circa 1910-1940, we’d find that it has, indeed, defended child labor in the US.
prime_number_314159@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
flippedtips.com/plegal/save/clin1910s.html
Under “Stunned Nation Reacts” I guess they argued it should be left up to the states… Which is a defense of it, in the context of the time.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Yeah, states rights tends to come into play when ethical protections are opposed. Slavery abolition, and abortion access come to mind. We may see it again regarding gay marriage.
Curiously, the same players who oppose all these things are not for states rights when it comes to cannabis access.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I can only imagine what voting for a president or such would have been like back then. Voting for a local congress person, okay you might have known them or know someone who might know them. But the president, you were told who they were by what… 1 newspaper? Unless your family was paying for more than one, aka if your family knew to switch somehow
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Olde Thimey federal candidates, including presidential candidates, actually traveled on the campaign trail, and would go town-to-town, make stump speeches (often on literal stumps) and gladhand by the hundreds. So the people often got to hear the candidates answer questions relevant to their own districts.
These remote media-only campaigns are unique to the post-radio age.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
it’s 80 or 90% owned by the same family from that time too.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s also a flatout lie. It wouldn’t abolish private insurance at all. Nytimes is dogshit journalism.
BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A blatant lie as well, plenty of countries with universal healthcare sustain a private health insurance industry.
matlag@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yes, but admittedly, the sector would plunge in terms of revenues and profit. What will be left is much smaller than what they have today.
One of the biggest and longest rip-off scheme in history would end quite abruptly.
Now from an economic standpoint, that’s as much money available to consumers that was previously going almost straight to shareholders with a limited return. That could be huge!
Lyrl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Unfortunately our morass of a healthcare system is deeper than insurance - medical device companies, big pharma (&PBMs), venture-capital-owned hospitals, and more all take their cut. Universal health care would not end the rip-off. But it would be an excellent first step.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
More an indictment of their mediocre reform than a testament to their accommodation.
Why do you still need private insurance in a public system unless it’s two-tiered and rationing care by wealth level.
Lyrl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It’s not possible to approve all care. Taxpayers will, through representative lawmakers, allot a certain amount of money to healthcare, and within that budget, decisions must be made. The realistic goal is not to have every possible treatment always approved, it’s to have a moderately high floor of care that everyone has as a baseline.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Abolishing slavery destroyed a massive industry too. They would have been against it.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Pwned
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub 2 weeks ago
I hate when things that are obviously inefficient have to be supported just because they exist.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s hard to defend the status quo otherwise.
toxicbubble@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
remember when NYT made Sanders look like a far left radicalist
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Step 1: free healthcare for all
Step 2: re-education camps
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Tbf we may need reeducation programs. We have a big problem with fascism and low critical thinking
anon_8675309@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If everything had to have precedent, nothing would ever change.
Rooster326@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
in the beginning there was nothing, and there nothing remained. Change is scary.
PhoenixDog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You just described why conservatives exist.
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Oh now we care about precedents for some reason.
Xerxos@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Forbidding orphan-crushing-machines would destroy the orphan-crushing-machine industry! The horror!
grainfed@quokk.au 2 weeks ago
There are some things which should not be privatised. Several reasons, mostly conflict of interest. Government needs to run the country, so politicians, military, police, tax dept, national intelligence, national education and health are some things which run clear to my bleeding obvious state of mind. Oh and transport, imagine if people needed to buy their own land, to pay to build a road, to travel on. Heaven forbid, but just extrapolating extreme capitalism.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 2 weeks ago
This post is crazy old shes probably paid over 130%
Amberskin@europe.pub 2 weeks ago
That’s peak ignorance. Plenty of countries with universal heathcare have a thriving private medical insurance industry. The thing is they cannot force the scam level prices they do in the US, because private insurance is a ‘nice to have’ instead of a ‘must have’ thing.
ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Except in every civilized country in the world.
brownsugga@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
NYT are a fascist mouthpiece
stickyprimer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“Abolish?” Pshaw. People even have private insurance in the EU under full government healthcare.
Doomsider@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Also, even with countries that have a public option private insurance is usually still allowed. There are zero good arguments against it and a lot of superfluous nonsense meant to muddy the waters.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Right, there’s no precedent in American history for declaring an entire class of business to be illegal.
en.wikipedia.org/…/Prohibition_in_the_United_Stat…
I think guys have maybe heard about this.
www.nytimes.com/1930/01/02/…/prohibition.html
Oh hey look, yeah, you did!
You can not like it but can… can we not, with he blatant historical revisionism?
You could also just point out the Sherman AntiTrust Act, point at that, maybe.
Oh right we also banned gambling, tons of forms of gambling, back in the day.
en.wikipedia.org/…/Gambling_in_the_United_States
PASPA
I wonder what the kalshi odds are on that happening again…?
Anyway uh, the Old Gray Lady needs to go to fuckin’ bed now, thanks.
boaratio@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I lost my job at the end of February, and have been enrolled in the affordable care insurance program ever since. Let me tell you, it’s almost less than having no insurance. I got charged $1.1k for my COVID booster. I got charged full price for my dental cleaning. My current “insurance” has denied every single thing I’ve submitted. I still have to pay them $500 a week though. Want to talk to them on the phone to resolve claims? Good fucking luck.
ZMoney@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There is a precedent and it’s called the VA. The military is the largest socialist organization in the US.
VelvetPinkOtter123@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is like 7 or 8 years old now but more importantly, it’s just a statement of fact, not an argument
Wtf is wrong with you guys where you just assume every statement is some kind of personal dig?
The article asks Economists about their predicted impact of switching to universal healthcare to every day people beyond the treatment they get. For example, what happens to all of the people who work for these private insurance companies? What about retirement plans? Lots of people have retirement plans based on stocks. How much of their retirement stock money is tied up in private insurance companies?
It’s not an argument for, or against, anything. Just literally someone asking an Economist, lets pretend we made this change tomorrow, what would the impact be?
And the answer is, “we don’t know because nothing like this has ever happened in the United States before”
Typically Economists can look at past events to predict what an upcoming event would look like. But there’s literally nothing close to this that’s ever taken place so while they can all guess it’s literally just that, a guess. There’s nothing in the past to compare it to
And this question gets more complicated when we ask what exactly the change would be. Should it be a slow, incremental change, or a sweeping set of legislation that makes massive changes seemingly overnight? Is the government ready to provide this coverage or would it find itself overwhelmed and unable to provide service fast enough and so needs time to build internal infrastructure?
It’s just information.
The person who commented is a fucking idiot who clearly didn’t read the article and you’re all idiots for going along with her shit before reading the article yourselves too
DupaCycki@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Freedom for all would abolish private slave ownership and trade. There’s no precedent in Roman history.
This is how dumb arguments like this one sound. Only a genocidal maniac could unironically spew nonsense like this.
rayyy@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
There is no president in history of insurance being so expensive and worthless.
einlander@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
And still tries to decline your claims.
thesohoriots@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There was that little bit of time we got some claims through. Something about an Italian plumber.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My sister had her gallbladder removed a decade or two ago. It was basically exploding or something in the er. Really disgusting amounts of pain.
Anyway, she was immediately denied as they couldn’t determine whether her gallbladder removal was elective or not. The doctor said something like “well fuck that, that’s why we have a team of lawyers.”
I think that’s a pretty succinct summary. Without one or more lawyers at your disposal we might as well all get fucked.