Submitted 19 hours ago by IloveyouMF@lemmy.world to [deleted]
I think progressives never thought about this because we banked on immigration and demographic change allowing us to win culturally and electorally but the issue is immigrants tend to be overwhelmingly male, that is how Trump won actually he won over a lot of Hispanic,Black,Asian and indigenous men who feel humiliated by a new culture, economy and world.
So what can we do rhetorically and policy wise to win more young men over ?
“Progressives” lost because they’re throwing all their weight behind a few big issues that are very disagreed with by the majority of the population - gender ideology, immigration, socialism/communism, at the top of that pile - and getting aggressive, instantly going to name calling and threatening violence, calling for censorship and “de-platforming”, and trying to get people fired and ruin the lives of at anyone who doesn’t blindly follow along.
The blue collar workers? Dems don’t give a fuck about them. White people? Bend the knee to everyone and apologise constantly or get fucked. Men? Fuck everything about you unless you identify as a different gender or are in the country illegally.
It’s really not surprising to anyone outside of the democrat bubble that calling half the country Nazis, bigots, and a half a dozen “phobes” is a bad idea. Also do you realise you’re just admitting to trying to “buy” election wins by essentially importing and bribing immigrants to vote Democrat? That’s another reason the democrats got annihilated.
Also, after they lost they said anyone who didn’t vote for Kamala was a racist, sexist, nazi almost guaranteeing they will lose mid terms. I’ve moved from Dem to independent because it is clear Dems hate my existence more than they care about winning
It’s kinda hard to look at what’s currently happening in the US and not feel like every person who failed to vote against trump is a bit of an asshole. What a nightmare we all have to live through now.
Revolution.
Help them to break down. Encourage them to be soft and show them that that softness is strength. So many of these young men are like this because they feel alone. We need to bring them together in positive ways.
Sell a more radical version
Look at what men are missing and how the right is selling it to them.
Men aren’t doing so hot right now, emotionally and mentally. They feel like they are not manly, and criticized for trying to be manly or liking manly things. There’s a lack of transitions into manhood, and the bar that is seen as a successful man with a good career is pretty much impossible.
If you have a poor paying job, you’re not manly. If you have a well paying job but it’s blue collar you’re not manly because you’re a dumb working stiff. If you have a white collar job you’re not manly because you’re not doing anything tough with your body. Maybe if you’re a CEO who owns the company but also does rock climbing and bear fighting are you seen as manly enough, maybe.
Then you have these guys, your Andrew Tates and so on, who act very manly and tell you it’s ok to be a man and then spout off some of the most toxic, asinine shit saying that’s how you be a man. And young guys fall for it because they aren’t shown any alternative.
Then on the left you have people who speak ill of men as a whole, and manliness as a whole. Sometimes the criticisms are correct, but a lot of times it’s presented as men overall. If you try to say that it’s not every man out there who’s a monster, you get blasted with criticism for saying “not all men”. They also don’t provide anything positive or solutions for feeling manly, with the best they can be offered is to be more like women.
So young men, especially young cishet men, are actively pushed away from leftist spaces, leaving them feeling demonized by those spaces, and actively pandered to by the right which are offering mind poison dressed up as solutions.
So what do we do? There’s a few things to fix.
leftist media has to stop demonizing men and start demonizing actions. Instead of saying “men are rapists” start saying “rapists are bad”. When people start to say things like “cis people are shit” other people need to call them out of it, because if you’re supposed to be the side that accepts people’s gender identity, it should be for all gender identities. It can feel cathartic to rail against the majority demographic, especially when people of that demographic have hurt you, but if you feel that it’s unfair to rail against a group because of the actions of a few members of it, that should apply to all groups. Things like “what’s wrong with the straights” doesn’t help build bonds with allies, and it turns young men away from leftist spaces.
there needs to be validation and recognition from the left for problems men have, like suicide, workplace death and heavier prison sentencing. The left needs to show that they are trying to fix these problems, too, instead of telling young men to suck it up and be a man about it because they are the oppressor demographic.
there needs to be people who counter toxic masculinity, not with telling men to be more like women, but with positive masculinity. If a man is having emotional or mental problems, toxic masculinity says to push that down. Femininity says it’s ok to be soft and vulnerable. Positive masculinity would say that a real man is true to himself and his feelings and expresses then freely, even if others might ridicule him for it. There’s a subtle difference, and the end result of femininity’s and positive masculinity’s tactic might be the same, i.e. the man expresses those feelings, but the way that they get there is very different. The former makes the man feel less validated in his identity, while the latter uplifts it. The memes where they say stuff like “I always tell my homies I love them before they go to bed” actually work.
leftist influencers need to make fighting for the rights of minorities seem manly. Badass. Like a hero. Worthy of praise and celebration.
while they won’t get the financial and political backing that the toxic male influencers get, there needs to be positive male influencers who talk about masculinity in a positive way, while promoting the ideas above. There needs to be an alternative, who acts manly but in the fun, positive way, that validates young men’s feelings of inadequacy, frustration, and isolation, while promoting an egalitarian perspective.
there needs to be a cultural shift in what makes a man. A shift away from dying in battle or becoming a tycoon, and a resurgence of the working class hero. Mass media itself needs to change and promote positive male figures. It can work and be popular, like in Avatar the Last Airbender. We need to show men that they are still men, and still worthy of love, respect and adoration, even if they aren’t a super soldier or a wealthy elite. A lot of this is counter to capitalistic goals, so it may have to be subversive, but eventually it needs to be made the norm.
other men need to continue to step up and speak out about injustice towards minorities and against toxic masculinity behaviors in the day to day, and start decrying those behaviors as unmanly. People need to call Andrew Tate and the like unmanly.
ideally, the men’s rights movement should be absorbed by the left and the toxic incels kicked out. It should be done in the name of gender equality. Fixing only woman’s problems won’t solve the patriarchy (which could be changed to a different term so everyone feels like it’s less of an us vs them) and feminists should try to help solve men’s problems directly rather than indirectly. Young men would see feminism as more appealing if feminists actually focused on men’s problems as well, rather than ignoring or worse, demonizing them. Feminism could be rebranded as an egalitarian movement for all sexes and genders, maybe get a name change. If the patriarchy affects everyone, then the focus should be on everyone. Maybe it would have to be a whole new movement entirely.
So it’s a larger problem than just getting more leftist male influencers, and some of those problems are systematic. Some can get worked on today. Talking about masculinity in a positive way, promotive equity, stop both their side and your side from bigotry, and, probably the thing that would get young men on board the most:
Actually trying to solve the problems young men are going through.
You can’t help men and hang on to feminism. Feminism is inherently anti-male.
Thank you for taking the time to write that. That was very well thought out and I really can’t see much or anything to quibble about.
I am a gay man raised in a conservative culture and I really know quite a lot of men in their 30s and 40s who are straight and accepting of me, but still deeply deeply troubled and confused about what it means to be a man. They struggle to identify and articulate their emotions quite a lot.
The fact that those in same-sex relationships have to invent their own ways of dividing the work in a partnership without reference to pre-defined gender roles makes their insight incredibly useful to the world at large. A lot of the struggles that men experience are due to rigid gender roles that do not allow for healthy expression.
I get a little bit angry because it’s like we were expected to accept that provisional approval from the Supreme Court, which as we all know is a very fragile victory.
Why? Because frankly, I think gay men and lesbians have a lot to teach about relationships just by existing visibly. Transgender people do too, but they do not yet enjoy the patchy and tentative acceptance that same sex relationships between cis people have achieved in the large parts of the USA. Their struggle is very intense right now and the LGBQs can help by getting loud again.
Why did we give up on the fight so early? The struggle for existence is not quite as dire for gay and lesbian people as it used to be, but it is still quite a struggle as nothing is assured. But it is not just for our benefit that we must be visible. Frankly, our experience gives us a great deal of wisdom and insight that our society, and men especially, desperately need.
l feel that the acceptance of LGBT people has actually had a beneficial effect on cishet men in ways most people aren’t aware of.
Dating is a good example. Traditionally the guy asks the girl out and pays for everything. This system sucks. It means men feel desperate and have to prove their worth (financial and otherwise) feeling lonely and worthless and women are stuck with the constant stream of guys trying to hit on them, dealing with harassment and worse.
But with more acceptance of homosexual relationships, that traditional method of dating doesn’t apply. The old “but who’s the guy” confusion goes away, and people as a whole realize that it’s stupid. If you see a post about a woman insisting a guy pays for everything or a guy insisting on ordering for his date they seem old fashioned and weirdly demanding. Most people wouldn’t bat an eye about a girl asking a guy out on a date now, and I’ll bet there’s some old newspaper headlines about some lady doing that in the past.
By your nature you’re helping to break down these dysfunctional systems and it’s actually helping people, so thanks a lot for that!
W-Wait, what is this? A well-thought out, constructive, sympathetic comment? Here? I don’t believe it!
Real talk, though: This is an incredibly solid post and I really appreciate you taking the time to actually write all of these points out. It’s rare (or, subjectively, it feels rare) to see an admission that a major shift in how this topic is approached is needed, and I feel just a bit more hopeful seeing someone else put in the time to go this deep on it.
I would only make two add-on comments to your points:
With regard to point #6, I agree with the concept - but I wonder if “working class hero” is the right target to be aiming at. Unless it comes with a major effort to utterly restructure our economy in such a way that either a man’s value is no longer measured in his ability to be successful in a paid position, and/or we restructure our economy to make success more viable, I fear that efforts to support “working class heros” are doomed to become awkward failures as automation continues to steamroll the viability of those positions.
One point I don’t see brought up here, though it is touched at in (1) and (8), is that we’ve got to modulate how we discuss so-called “toxic” behavior. When so many seemingly minor behaviors are met with the same levels of disdain, villainization, and even punishment as things like actual sexual assault, it ends up feeling deeply isolating, undermines the point that is trying to be made, and pushes men towards the worst actors.
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it!
I kinda agree on your points. I feel that working class heros could make a comeback if done well, though.
Hell ideally I’d like to see more historical stuff based on labor history, Blair Mountain was crazy and could totally be an action movie.
All these things already exist and maybe just need more exposure.
brb gotta tell my sone I love him
I want “manly-ness” to go extinct. Honestly I bet mods might delete my comment. But I feel the issue is we as a species are figuring out (slowly) that we all need to go extinct. Human brain architecture is fatally flawed. Greed and selfish notions, always striving for power, and the destruction of basically all other life in this planet, tells me we all need to simply accept that we are empherial, transient and temporary. Nothing is sacred, there is no gods or meaning. Ultimate Nihilism essentially. MISANTHROPIC ANTI-NATALISM. But also negative-utilarianism, which states that those who choose to stay living need to focus on reducing other people’s suffering. Honestly, it’s almost fascist itself, my beliefs. Here’s one: those who cause other people suffering should be executed! No tolerance for intolerance… start by burning all the churches down. Outlaw religion, the mind sickness. Only allow what can be proven scientifically. But yeah, basically we need to genocide the genociders… no forgiveness. Cull the conservatives. No more nations or governments. No patriotism or nationalism or exclusive cultures… above all though, we humans are garbage and we have poisoned the entire planet. We must go extinct. Never get off this planet! Kill any who try to leave, gotta contain the cancer!
I mean, if you really were the ultimate nihilist, you wouldn’t have a problem with manliness because it wouldn’t matter anyway.
doomer to the nth degree.
i hope you get better <3
This is all from the perspective of a non-american from a country where thankfully we are still liberal at heart and only entertain some progressive ideas, instead of buying it wholesale, meaning the right has yet to completely cannibalise the government over the mistakes of the left.
You can want everyone to receive equal opportunity and dignity, but people are not equal and will not end in the same place once the race is over. You can’t demand equality of outcome and onboard the most competitive demographic, there is a reason if the stereotype of leftist men is passive wimps. This is completely compatible with prgressive ideas, but it’s incompatible with progressive brains, apparently.
The core idea of intersectionality is that each demographic has its own issues and they manifest differently if more demographics overlap in the same individual (e.g. sexism against white women vs sexism against black women exhibit different tropes and connotations).
This does not mean whoever has the least minoritary traits is the most acceptable target, that is some marxist “oppressor vs oppressed” horseshit and, while it was probably the intended idea, it is massively counterproductive and doesn’t have to be the actual application of the issue.
Men have issues that women don’t have, women have issues that men don’t have. As soon as your movement decides to prioritise one they have lost the other.
The reason this does not happen with race is that no movement in the US can realistically exist politically without white people simply by virtue of how huge the white slice of the demo pie is, and because this whole thing was started by highly educated, economically mobile, overwhelingly white, college grads who live in very specific coastal bubbles, hence the endemic hatred of farmers and factory workers, the actual working class of the US, as hicks and racists, and the lionisation of serving staff like baristas and waiters (the only working class most large city dwellers ever interact with).
It’s just a fucking L on its face isn’t it? “Yes come join the party that thinks men being in power is the problem” fat fucking chance lol.
And when they do join, the parodies write themselves.
I don’t care if you think it’s “just a name” (especially in light of what progs consistently do over “just a name” and “just a statue” and so on) it’s a massive optics L that shows all of the horseshit about microaggressions and non-confrontational language and whatnot are entirely performative.
You have the most obvious othering language in the core ideas of the movement and then complain about microaggressions? And you wonder why people don’t take you seriously?
And while we’re on that:
You can’t have a political movement that does not tolerate dissent and confrontation, or only tolerates it in one direction.
The whole point of politics is to create a critical mass of people who align on some goal to push for it, you don’t have to agree with them on every point, if you had enough people who agree with you, you would be already in the majority and would not need to participate in politics.
Easy example from the last decade: TERFs.
Now, I don’t like TERFs, on account of them being radfems and thus automatically hostile to me due to the circumstances of my birth (i.e. penis), but you know what? I reckon they probably want women to have better salaries and fewer barriers to entry into professional fields.
Let them force themselves into political irrelevance if they refuse to play ball, don’t make a big fucking show of kicking them out of the movement, because then you end up on the back foot of having to explain “trans women are women” to the mass population and the TERFs simply need to say “look at these brainwashed biology deniers, they think males and females have no differences” and you end up eating your own ass in public, when the point is that trans women ought to be treated as women for their own good and a more welcoming society.
(side note: if you are in that brainless chunk of progs who do believe there is no difference between the sexes, I highly encourage you to look at the world records in any discipline with easily measured metrics such as 100m dash and freestyle swimming. Not a single male record is under the women’s record, in some cases every historical male record eclipses the current female one. Males and females are different, this should be acknowledged, and it should not be a barrier to equal dignity in treatment.)
A movement that can’t include anyone but the most in-line and pure of the ideological adepts is doomed to be irrelevant, and on that the progressives have an almost complete lock.
TERFs are “radfem” in nothing but name.
wow. most of what you write creates culture that completely excludes and alienates women. See: hostility of current male dominated fields towards women. Blows my mind that you consider going backwards, rather than male culture evolving to be better human beings, to be a solution.
I have a bit of a preconceived notion as to why you are saying this, however I would rather ask you to be more specific before jumping to conclusions. Can you give concrete examples as to how my suggestions would alienate women?
I don’t follow the media and the debate where you live, but over here left leaning politicians and media tends to frame it as: women, minorites etc have a problem. Men are the problem.
You’re basically pushing any undecided man over to the right.
So we should lie?
Men are the problem. The patriarchy, the racism, the discrimination? Men.
Troll grade: C-.
Does Trump pay you by the hour or per post?
liberal politicians and liberal MSM frame it that way, because they have nothing else to offer but toxic culture wars.
The same as it always has been. Punk Rock. Conservative shit is so goddamn cringe it's really hard to imagine how it has convinced anyone that it is any kind of counterculture.
Easy
Every time there is a conversation regarding men issues, bring up how women have and keep having BIGGER issues
That’ll work wonders
I genuinely believe that more empathy is needed in both directions for people to come out of their trenches. Problem is, it"s hard to feel empathy for those who have no empathy in return. It’s a locked position reinforcing itself with every bad interaction. To break out of this we would have to listen and show that we care, while not getting the same things back. It feels bad. Unfair. Again, this goes both ways.
Reframe spending as stimulating the economy.
Create jobs through a green new deal that allows for upeard mobility for the motivated. Small business grants.
Create tax incentives for, endorse and give loam grants to businesses that provide workers with a share of a company. Whether co-op type thing or convoluted stock share program.
Young men want to matter, and they want to see the results of their effort.
You can’t really do anything. Men had privileged position in the society for millennia. Now you’re basically asking them to resign this privilege. They will not do it voluntarily. It doesn’t make sense for them on any level. They will push back and the harder you attack their special rights the harder they will push back. It’s only natural.
I think the only thing you can do is to educate them about democratic values so that while they are regaining power they still respect the rights of other people and don’t create authoritarian state. This is what clearly failed in the US.
The fact that you’re the only person who pointed out what men can do and are being downvoted is insane. Everyone else is completely blind to even entertaining the idea that progress might not be the main problem.
Given the fact that there is a massive backswing towards the right in most of the west, very much riding a wave against progressive politics, with the largest gender divide in viting demographics on record in the US, and a republican winning the popular vote for the first time since Bush’s second term?
US Progressives need to worry about this, not everyone else. Everyone else is telling progressives to shove off.
“Progress” does not exist, only marxists think history is a linear path from bad to good, reality is a bit more complex. (a good answer to pretty much any of Marx’s arguments, incidentally)
If you want your worldview to win, and your worldview is both against the ruling class, its supporters, and doing anything to onboard them? You’re just not going to win. You’re not going to win even if you were to execute a revolution because you just don’t have any measurable support.
So, unless you just want to circlejerk about how right you are and accomplish nothing, you should look into how to get the people on your side, very much including the demographic that makes up most of the politicians.
The reality of this all is rather complex but I think the greatest issue is fundamentally the empathy gap. Men’s issues are not recognized as issues, they’re just dismissed out of hand. I’m talking about the easy things like the sentencing and education gaps.
We need to start the discourse that these are very real problems that are worth addressing.
Another problem I personally run into is how it’s acceptable to discriminate against men, “kill all men” is acceptable but “kill all race” isn’t. Neither should be and we don’t recognize it as a problem, instead defaulting to arguments that are considered horrendous in another context.
Every time I have heard someone say “kill all men” I have immediately dismissed everything else they are saying because their logic is just as rotten as other racists/sexists
How did you dismiss all the leftists in one fell swoop?
If they wanted to address the education gap, wouldn’t they? Why would they want to when trades provide more money, no lost income for 4-5 years, or a crippling debt? Women are at a disadvantage there. I mean, I definitely don’t want to minimize overlooked hardships, but…
You’re paying with your body, the work can be very dangerous, and it takes a while to ramp up to decent pay. On top of that the pay isn’t always going to be better than a degree (iirc research has concluded that lifetime earnings for trades are behind degrees), ignoring countries with sensible tertiary education options.
Trades are not equivalent. And education is still a significant indicator of political alignment.
Honestly, this is a great example of the empathy gap.
Be nice and respectful to them and masculinity. Like “It’s masculine to protect the oppressed”
Don’t belittle anyone for that matter, such as based on race, gender or religions, even if you’re upset at that grouping.
I think you can refocus the modern aggressive threatening behaviour of young men into either a physical or psychological aspect of masculinity that celebrates being respected and admired for the safety projected by them. A ‘real man’ is someone who makes sure everyone is heard, everyone is safe, everyone can rely upon, and that no one can get away with shit around. They should be beacons of safety, strength of character, and patience. I believe our ancestors gained this by survival, team bonding through necessity and respect for the danger of nature. Humility needs to come back in a big way.
Exactly. Men want to feel important as well. I think taking away masculinity has led us to this dangerous place.
That, or if they insist on being agressive shits, enlighten them to the time honored tradition of punching nazis.
My great grandfather shot nazis for King and Country 😎🇬🇧
I like this actually
Real men are woke
Real men wear cat ears, maid dresses, and share their gf with other men
Start by no longer telling men who have done nothing wrong they are responsible for the misdeeds of others. It breeds resentment and closes people to anything else you have to say.
This comes up a lot, and I really don’t know where it comes from. Who is telling you that you’re responsible for the misdeeds of others? Seriously, point that out, because I’m in my mid forties, I’m a white cishet American man, and I’ve never felt like I was being blamed for the sins of people who look and fuck like me. Really, it just sounds like a conservative strawman talking point, because nobody does this.
Literally the talk about how privileged men are is that
Legit I think it’s to shift the focus away from helping other people for the sake of being nice and onto uniting together to fight a common enemy - the bosses, corporations, etc. Dale the machinist from Alabama isn’t going to go to the protest to protect trans latinx PoC out of the kidness of his own heart but he might if he realizes it’s part of a larger project to go out to take back his rights from the people fucking him over, and fuck over his boss. Young men are drawn to masculinity and militaristic language right now, and left wing politics can be easily framed in those terms. Yes, being good to other people should be good in its own right but a lot of people don’t see it that way and we need to get them on our side too.
Just a heads up, the majority of Hispanic people hate “Latinx”. It’s not even pronounceable in Spanish.
Oh I know, I was just using super stereotypical language. Every Latino I know just says Latino or Hispanic.
education, because of centuries of mysogyny, now that women are getting alot of funding and help in thier college careers, and beyond. and men are practically ditching it halfway because they dont see themselves even with thier degrees getting a job in it, this makes them extremely bitter and turn to right wing echo chambers, because it gives them validation.
also socially women when interviewing are better at getting certain jobs than men, like in biology related fields.
Male stereotypes have to be culturally broken first. Men are being taught that showing any emotions other than anger and hate is effeminate. They’re being taught that empathy is weakness, that education is stupidity, that freedom is slavery.
Everything that makes men human is being stripped away, leaving a husk of burning hate awaiting marching orders. They need to reconnect to humanity.
I am going to be honest, I think women need to be a a part of this. We are used to being right in regards to gender conflict because usually we are but one thing I agree with men on is that every woman says they want men to share their feelings more but many women lose respect for a man they see as weak.
Bell Hooks talks a lot about this so you can go read her.
I do not find that to be the case at all in my circles, it’s usually the guys giving shit to other guys for expressing emotion and the emotionally expressive people (including women) riffing them for back for being assholes. There’s certainly a song and dance to doing this effectively.
I don’t really think it should be a gendered expectation but rather an everyone expectation. If someone is being vulnerable with you that wouldn’t otherwise, don’t be an asshole. If someone needs to be called out for exhibiting rude behaviour to someone else, do so in the way that works for your circumstances.
Frankly, I was going to say almost the opposite. Conservatives are appealing to young men by decrying the “woke” process of breaking down those stereotypes. It’s a reaction to those “traditional” masculine traits being challenged by a more enlightened society.
The key is not breaking down those gender norms, but rechanneling that masculine energy and “gender pride” into something healthy and beneficial. We need to reframe the conversation, because when you attack, people instinctively defend. Instead, we should model the new masculinity, one where being tough means being confident enough to stand out or be yourself. Where being a bro means being a friend, not a douchebag. Real men have the strength to admit their faults and ask for help. Real power is punching up, not down, and real bravery is accepting people for who they are.
Contrast someone like Joe Rogan with Pedro Pascal. Which one is a “Real Man™”? Which one should we celebrate and focus on? Boys need role models, because we don’t know how to handle our hormones at an age when everything is confusing. If you tell them their instincts are wrong, they will retreat to a safe space where someone else will tell them that society is wrong and they should be as gross and misogynistic as they can be.
Real men are creative. Real men are kind. Real men are curious. Real men are sincere. Real men admit mistakes and accept consequences. Real men lift others up. Real men are able to ask for help. Real men are comfortable with their sexuality, and are not afraid of exploring their preferences.
All children are born selfish and frightened. We have to learn to be better through empathy. Without positive role models, we cannot learn to overcome those selfish impulses, and we cannot stand up to the bullies that will try to sell the red pill.
Because no matter what we do, there will always be conservative dipshits talking about how oppressed they are because they can’t insult people by calling them “girly” or “gay” or “retarded” anymore. There will always be angry gym rats who think big biceps and a fast car will fix their insecurities. There will always be bullies, and we should always stand up to them.
Also, every boy should watch Ted Lasso. Seriously, there has never been a better breakdown of male stereotypes than that show.
40 something male that has struggled to overcome toxic masculinity. I mean I was literally slapped silly by my parents and grandparents for crying when I was 5 and told “boys dont cry”. I mean I’ve cried 3 times in my life before coming to terms with needing to change. Eventalking to my wife it’s taken years for her to accept that Im allowed to feel more emotions than anger and laughter.
Im a foster parent now and it’s been a lot of work to internalize my stuff but damn im supportive if the boys we have want to feel their feelings. 3 year old wanted a rainbow shirt and I got it for him but his dickehad machismo father called him a faggot. Oh boy I made sure he wore his favorite shirt for every visit.
Do what you say you’re going to do when you get elected. Quit finding just enough no votes and making excuses. You promise, we vote, you don’t deliver. Then you ask “why does no one want to vote for us? We promised to be marginally less terrible than our opponents!”
Maybe stop hating their guts…
I don’t know. How do you teach empathy?
You got to beat it into people
This is proof that the current progressive agenda causes the same kind of brain rot MAGA does.
As a mom of men, it has always concerned me that, while we were supporting our girls, we left our boys to flounder a bit. We spent so much time telling girls that they could do anything and they could be ‘just as good as the boys’ and talking to women about glass ceilings and ‘don’t let the man keep you down.’ What did we tell our boys or rather what did they hear?
Thanks I agree and this is a valuable perspective
Sell it to women first and let them broadcast that they wont date any regressives.
Im assuming the regressives are mostly young cishet men
the issue with that is with less women dating period since less women want to settle. Would that work ?
There just isn’t a gaurentee or even a good enough chance that being a progressive or supporting progressive politics will get you a girlfriend or wife so would this kind of incentive system work ?
If you want the carrot and stick to work you have to give the carrot.
Telling women to just date random progressive guys for the cause even ignoring the fact it’s not ery ethical. I just don’t think you could convince enough women to do it for it to work
they don’t even have to date them. dating them and publicly showing the dates off (like in tiktok videos etc) helps and counters misogynists like the Tates or ppl claiming girls only date rich guys etc, but just hanging with boys and making clear they are leftist and like being around leftist boys will sway lots of boys. talking politics also helps.
i remember in my teens there were multiple girls doing this and it helped a lot. there was this punk girl and she would hang with like four boys and play them punk music, make them tea and hand out mixtapes and flyers for protests. another was a girl scout and met boy scouts on scout camps and they were following her around like creeps, but she invited groups of them to activities after the camp and got them to go to peace protests and help at cummunity events. if a cute girl asks a boy to help her hand out flyers for a good cause at the town fair most can’t resist. and many girls have no idea how cute they are. they see stupid ads with supermodels and compare themselves with them, but there’s a very wide range of what boys like and they’re very likely in it, for most boys, even if they think they’re ugly.
hah that’s true, good point
You don’t like cishet men much, do you?
Without having stats to back it up, it seems perfectly logical to me. Cishet men are the people conservative views benefit the most, and they’re the people folks like Andrew Tate specifically target. If I had to make a blind guess, I’d have said it’s cishet men, too.
I said regressives, most of which I’d wager are cishet men.
That doesn’t count cishet men outside of the regressive group. I hope, otherwise I’d be in trouble with myself
Women don’t want effeminate men.
first of all, progressive men don’t imply them being effeminate.
secondly, you should be aware that “women” refers to a group of about 4 billion people. that means, if what you say is false for only 1% you’re wronging 40 million people. (but what you wrote is probably false for a much higher percentage. just like men, women can like different and multiple types at the same time and their preference can even change over time)
Doesn’t that Hasan guy do this?
Yes Hasan piker does support terrorists in all their forms, specially domestic ones
Good thing he’s a Nepo baby! Imagine the horror of having him complying with a platform rule’s. Absolute insanity
Guess I’m out of the loop. He seemed pretty normal on Endless Thread, except for streaming 7 days a week. [Endless Thread] The Stream is Up 🅴 #endlessThread podcastaddict.com/endless-thread/…/194201483 via @PodcastAddict
Maybe like, one day you are gonna need the social safety net, even if you’re a very strong cis het guy.
One you’re gonna be old. One day you’re gonna be fired without notice when your car breaks down. One day your girlfriend might have a surprise pregnancy you can’t deal with.
Just brainstorming but I would start with saying, sure this doesn’t benefit you right now, cause you got the luck of the draw, but one day we will all need help
IMO it’s about saving men from the patriarchy. I was recently on an interview of Judith Butler and I really appreciated its take that the movement needs to show empathy and compassion.
It’s not a rhetorical problem. It’s a propaganda problem. People aren’t being reasoned into right wing politics. It’s being beaten into their heads day and night by talk radio, cable news, local news, and YouTube; and this has been going on very deliberately for decades. The right wing powers-that-be have been busily, patiently, creating a massive, pervasive propaganda machine for a long time while the left sat on their hands. We’re now seeing the results: a world where the right can do and say literally anything they want without consequence. Their base is very literally brainwashed through brute force repeated messaging that nobody can compete with.
We needed the Democrats to do something about this propaganda machine before it became unstoppable. They already didn’t do that.
The best thing any of us can do is try to steer kids away from the propaganda before they get sucked in.
The first thing is that progressives need to stop being intellectually dishonest. The movement needs to admit that the world view is a technocratic one in which the best course of action given the evidence available is the one that will guide the decisions of the movement, not popular sentiment.
As of right now the progressive agenda looks like a mass of contradictions whose only identity is opposition to MAGA and the right with such intensity that the right has in fact co-opted many of the stances that traditionally belonged on the left, losing the support of the working class.
Seen through a Marxist lens, it is not surprising, the progressive movement in the US is not a worker’s movement but rather a managerial class movement.
I think instead of focusing on how to sell this product, we focus on the product itself because it’s impossible to sell something that Democrats keep pulling off the shelf as “defective.” Like any other item that people buy, committing to something only to have the “company” do a 180 and stop supporting it immediately after your “purchase” is just going to drive people away.
I honestly don’t think progressive politics is the problem. When it comes to the US. The only other party is the democrats and at best they are center at best but really they are just Republicans from 20 years ago. From a fiscal sense.
Both times they sold the American people to pick them just because the other side is worse. The problem is most people don’t want to pick the lesser of two evils. They want to pick something that will change their lives for the better.
The problem is when Democrats don’t really have a platform or communicate that platform effectively. But the other guy is saying he will fix the problems in people’s lives even if they are lies. Most low information voters will roll the dice on the chance he is not lying. Because the other side has brought nothing to the table at all.
The logic i have seen with a man like that broke my heart was this. He said i care about the plate of Trans folks and other minorities but like on an airplane you have to put on your own mask on first before you help others. So when you are out of work or can’t afford to live. The culture wars feels like less a priority for those type of people.
When looking with that lense it makes sense how people voted. People with higher education and income voted Dem becase they wanted to help others.
People with lower income voted Republican out of desperation and was easy for Republicans to sell the snake oil of. If we hurt these small group of people. All your problems will be solved. Then those same people are hurt more when they find out it was all a lie.
Read up on history and how Germany was after World War I. It’s like having a crystal ball of what’s going to happen next.
StarlightDust@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 minutes ago
Christ - some of these replies are exactly what a lot of women talk about when we say that Lemmy has a misogyny problem.
Blokes really don’t recognize how much harder shit actually is for women, overall. It would be lovely to just sit on a bench for 5 mins without a stranger coming to chat me up, or if people would stop crediting men for my work when they don’t even ask for it.