Submitted 1 day ago by IloveyouMF@lemmy.world to [deleted]
I think progressives never thought about this because we banked on immigration and demographic change allowing us to win culturally and electorally but the issue is immigrants tend to be overwhelmingly male, that is how Trump won actually he won over a lot of Hispanic,Black,Asian and indigenous men who feel humiliated by a new culture, economy and world.
So what can we do rhetorically and policy wise to win more young men over ?
I think instead of focusing on how to sell this product, we focus on the product itself because it’s impossible to sell something that Democrats keep pulling off the shelf as “defective.” Like any other item that people buy, committing to something only to have the “company” do a 180 and stop supporting it immediately after your “purchase” is just going to drive people away.
It’s not a rhetorical problem. It’s a propaganda problem. People aren’t being reasoned into right wing politics. It’s being beaten into their heads day and night by talk radio, cable news, local news, and YouTube; and this has been going on very deliberately for decades. The right wing powers-that-be have been busily, patiently, creating a massive, pervasive propaganda machine for a long time while the left sat on their hands. We’re now seeing the results: a world where the right can do and say literally anything they want without consequence. Their base is very literally brainwashed through brute force repeated messaging that nobody can compete with.
We needed the Democrats to do something about this propaganda machine before it became unstoppable. They already didn’t do that.
The best thing any of us can do is try to steer kids away from the propaganda before they get sucked in.
How do you do that, though? For obvious reasons, the rich and powerful aren’t going to suddenly start pouring their resources into progressive messaging, and there’s only so much you can do when you’re diametrically opposed to them.
this is the gordion knot that the “let’s respect the nazi’s viewpoint instead of mocking and ridiculing them” people have allowed us all to become tangled up in. fascists have been allowed to take over education, mass media, social media, news media, and every other possible channel of communication, making avoidance of their propaganda almost impossible, let alone keeping kids away. they’ve pretty much defeated public libraries, and next will be academic libraries and higher ed altogether. they don’t want anyone exploring any ideas that didn’t originate with the fascist regime
cult programming and mind control, after it’s already happened, is extremely difficult to reverse. used to be a team of people would have to involuntarily abduct a person and perform intense deprogramming methods over a course of days or weeks to get someone out of the cult mindset. and that was just for one single person. btw anyone who tries to tell you maga is not a full-blown textbook definition of cult is either part of the cult, or in denial of reality. same as the maga cult.
now we have millions of people simultaneously believing that they’re perpetual victims and also invincible and superior to their supposed “oppressors”-- anyone woke, women, mexicans, lgbtq…pretty much anyone who isn’t straight, white, male, evangelical, republican, nth generation citizens.
i wish i had a feasible answer, but the outlook is grim
As individuals, we can only influence our friends, family, and kids as best we can. Sometimes that’s not at all. We’re all now familiar with the trope of “Fox News ate my parents’ brains”.
This isn’t a game or a movie that necessarily has to have a happy ending. Sometimes shit’s just fucked. As long as the propaganda machine is in place, millions of people will be brainwashed.
The first thing is that progressives need to stop being intellectually dishonest. The movement needs to admit that the world view is a technocratic one in which the best course of action given the evidence available is the one that will guide the decisions of the movement, not popular sentiment.
As of right now the progressive agenda looks like a mass of contradictions whose only identity is opposition to MAGA and the right with such intensity that the right has in fact co-opted many of the stances that traditionally belonged on the left, losing the support of the working class.
Seen through a Marxist lens, it is not surprising, the progressive movement in the US is not a worker’s movement but rather a managerial class movement.
its just too disorganized, no coherent or concrete motives for progressive.
I agree that we need to be more technocratic as I think democracy is kind of running it’s course in the world. Maga also has a lot of contradictions to be fair
It doesn’t matter what MAGA does or what MAGA is, progressives need to define themselves independently of that. But a popular workers movement it is not. That crown for right or wrong belongs to MAGA.
Doesn’t that Hasan guy do this?
Yes Hasan piker does support terrorists in all their forms, specially domestic ones
Good thing he’s a Nepo baby! Imagine the horror of having him complying with a platform rule’s. Absolute insanity
Guess I’m out of the loop. He seemed pretty normal on Endless Thread, except for streaming 7 days a week. [Endless Thread] The Stream is Up 🅴 #endlessThread podcastaddict.com/endless-thread/…/194201483 via @PodcastAddict
I honestly don’t think progressive politics is the problem. When it comes to the US. The only other party is the democrats and at best they are center at best but really they are just Republicans from 20 years ago. From a fiscal sense.
Both times they sold the American people to pick them just because the other side is worse. The problem is most people don’t want to pick the lesser of two evils. They want to pick something that will change their lives for the better.
The problem is when Democrats don’t really have a platform or communicate that platform effectively. But the other guy is saying he will fix the problems in people’s lives even if they are lies. Most low information voters will roll the dice on the chance he is not lying. Because the other side has brought nothing to the table at all.
The logic i have seen with a man like that broke my heart was this. He said i care about the plate of Trans folks and other minorities but like on an airplane you have to put on your own mask on first before you help others. So when you are out of work or can’t afford to live. The culture wars feels like less a priority for those type of people.
When looking with that lense it makes sense how people voted. People with higher education and income voted Dem becase they wanted to help others.
People with lower income voted Republican out of desperation and was easy for Republicans to sell the snake oil of. If we hurt these small group of people. All your problems will be solved. Then those same people are hurt more when they find out it was all a lie.
Read up on history and how Germany was after World War I. It’s like having a crystal ball of what’s going to happen next.
So funny thing is republicans say the same thing. There is a famous quote ““Conservatism is progressivism driving the speed limit.””
I would argue the left needs to take some responsibility with getting distracted in the culture war and losing site of the working class. Look at Bernie you can go back to 2016 and see people saying that bernie was a bro candidate and not progressive enough compared to hillarly on insert x wedge issue here
Yep that’s why they fucked over Bernie so hard. He was what we always wanted in a progressive president. But since the rich area playing both size and acting like they different the DNC sabotaged him twice and now we see the result.
Better marketing.
Drop policies that have been consistent long-term losers like expanded gun control.
Force through policies that improve their lives at the cost of others, for example, healthcare paid for by taxing billionaires
Drop policies that have been consistent long-term losers like expanded gun control.
Suppressors are a literally a hearing safety device/noise pollution reducer and Democrat politicians describe them like they get all their information from a John Wick movie. It would be so easy for the party to drop the matter entirely and throw politically-homeless gun owners a bone by taking suppressors off the NFA.
Force through policies that improve their lives at the cost of others, for example, healthcare paid for by taxing billionaires
Yep! Follow that up with policies that improve people’s lives and we have a ticket that writes itself.
Pride in intellectual achievement would be a good start.
People gravitated twoards progressive policies after the great depression, before the cold war.
The cold war was the first time the US made it legal to use propaganda against its own citizens
So basically, people will support progressivism as long as they are educated and don’t have their brains raped by neo-religious and capitalist propaganda from childhood.
I had a feeling this post is race bait.
How is that post wrong ?
How is anything I have said wrong.
One thing that would probably help a lot is more progressive rolemodels who actually go out proselyzetizing, i.e. a more direct progressive equivalent to the likes of Andrew Tate. Though IDK how to actually make that kind of thing big, the fascist tech bros who rule silicon valley will surely suppress it even if it was gaining some momentum.
“Real men take care of their neighbors and vulnerable people, not just themselves and their family”? Honestly I have no fucking idea lol.
Crush patriarchy. That’s the system that’s failed these men after all. It wasn’t progressive values that promised them women to dispose of. It wasn’t feminism that promised them easy success and automatic status.
It’s the promise of patriarchy that has “been stolen from us”. And it’s the restoration of patriarchy these men are clamoring for. Men want their privilege back and the Left can accommodate them for the low low price of jettisoning feminist values from the movement.
This is really the most Democrat bullshit ever. Left politics is getting more support than ever, but we’re going to get obsessed with pleasing the groups that hate and oppose us instead of championing the issues of those who support us.
My idea, as dumb as it is, would be one of the tools I hate ( AI ) to start a mass disinformation campaign that claims all the people like Joe Rogan or any of these other bad apples are weaklings that sexually prey on little kids. That, alongside any other way to make them look weak
If they play dirty, I see no reason not to do the same.
souperk@reddthat.com 11 hours ago
IMO it’s about saving men from the patriarchy. I was recently on an interview of Judith Butler and I really appreciated its take that the movement needs to show empathy and compassion.