Submitted 3 months ago by Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Every member of the military needs to be reminded that they are obligated to disobey illegal orders. Every member of the military needs to be reminded that the Posse Comitatus act prohibits the military from engaging in domestic law enforcement activities.
And the military needs to be reminded that immigration is a law enforcement issue, not a military issue.
They will just remind them that trump is immune and he will pardon loyalists.
One final reminder to every military officer: The statute of limitations on these crimes extends well beyond Trump’s term: They can be prosecuted under the next president.
That’s what yes-men are for – to work around such pesky limitations on power.
Gitmo should have been shut down two decades ago. Torture, waterboarding, “advanced interrogation techniques” … don’t think we forgot about that. It’s a shame that no American president had the courage to close down dirty military institutions.
Stop. This is so fucked up. This has nothing to do with president’s od christmas past. This is the current president opening a concentration camp. Just stop with this false equivalence.
You had 2 Democratic presidents since it opened. It’s a legitimate criticism. Trump is using existing infrastructure that could’ve been dismantled.
Kind of jumping into the middle of yours and his here, but the ghosts of our past is quite frankly always relevant. As a gross oversimplified example, WW1 caused many hard feelings and set the stage hat led to WW2. The end of WW2 left the US in a position to consolidate a large amount of power, while the Soviet Union gathered allies to match. This put In place many scare tactics you see used even today. The collapse of the Soviet Union put Putin in position to become the president for 30+ years. One could say that Germany backsliding caused the Kaiser to put Lenin on a train to the Russian Empire is the reason the world is in the state it is in today.
The ghosts of our past are ALWAYS relevant and pretending things should be changed in a bubble does no good when planning the effects. Torture has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Many voters opposed Citizens United, yet it was passed under Obama. Many citizens opposed the Patriot Act, citing it’s opportunity to be misused to indefinitely hold people. And sure enough Bush signed it and we are still dealing with the repurcussions.
Both Obama AND Biden ran on the platform to close Guantanamo so it could not be misused, and did not. Could Trump have reopened it? Sure! But then we’d be faulting him for reopening it AND using it as a camp. It’s not “both sides nonsense” to say that if Obama had succeeded in it before he left office, we wouldn’t be in this position. He stated as early as 2009, and had 7 years after that to get the votes together, ultimately handing it off to Trump in 2016 with 0 inmates because he failed to get a vote to approve it. Trump didn’t close it for obvious reasons, and then Biden had 4 years to take his crack at it and also failed to close it. And now, here we sit almost 20 years later with bushes prison island still open, being used for the same evil bush used it for - hiding people from the press so those nasty headlines stop because they can’t access the island.
Over turning Bush II’s policies were the primary reason I voted for Obama. Since then, I’ve only depressingly voted for democrats on the basis that they would at least slow the rise of fascism.
This isn’t “both sides”, but if we couldn’t get gitmo closed with democrats, how could we do it with bold faced fascists?
Dude, fascism didn’t spring into being fully formed out of nothing on the dawn of January 20th, just as the Roman Republic didn’t crumble in a day. It’s been decades and decades of baby steps towards this point, until we finally got to where things could get much worse all at once. Yeah, Kamala wouldn’t have made gitmo into a concentration camp, but she wouldn’t have dismantled the machinery built by the war on terror and the war on drugs that the fascists are using right now. Let’s not oversell it; at best, she would’ve kicked the can down the road another four years. Our past leaders all had chances and made commitments to close gitmo, and they had the perfect authority to do so, and then decided that they could wield the tools of fascism wisely rather than destroying them so that a future fascist wouldn’t have them just laying around. This is on all of them, too.
How many people has Donald Trump had tortured…so far? His crimes still pale in comparison to George W Bush, who should have been hanged by the neck until dead.
If we put kamala in the white house do you think there is even a 1% chance she would open a concentration camp at gitmo?
I believe that having the choice to either expand gitmo, close gitmo, or do nothing and leave it for the next republican to deal with, she would choose to do nothing about it, which is still better then Trump and why I voted for her, but it was a depressing vote. She is not more progressive then Obama and Obama did not close gitmo. You don’t gently wine down Auschwitz.
I was excited when Obama won and would close gitmo. I was hopeful that Biden would have a huge program to reunite the separated families. I begrudgingly voted for the cop that the DNC thought was a good idea after months of BLM protests. I’m burnt out now.
This has everything to do with past presidents. They all wanted Guantanamo Bay to stay open so they could torture and imprison people. They did, and now Trump is.
It’s not like nobody could have predicted this. It’s not like nobody told them, “You should stop torturing people, stop imprisoning them there, and close the place down.” … In fact, they all heard that advice and ignored it, because they were happy to forget about human rights.
Of course Trump is doing terrible things, and this is one of them. But he’s not the first, and he certainly won’t be the last. And what you wrote about Kamala is on-point, but you don’t even see it, do you. Would she have closed Guantanamo Bay down? Of course not. Because she feels the same way.
Its like having a permenant place nobody ever looks at with no rules.
Way too convienient to get rid of.
Probably more a decision of the intelligence communities more than the military.
You would prob enjoy Jon Stewart’s “is this fascism?” video.
American here:
I would like for the civilized world to do a full trade embargo on the US. I want the economy to nosedive so hard that either the GOP votes to remove the motherfucker from office, or get crushed in the biggest electoral landslide in history in 2026.
As a Canadian, it really really sucks that we have to hurt our friends to help them, or you’ll hurt us all worse. It really sucks that you, personally, had to say those things too, but it’s also brave, and makes me hopeful that we can get through this.
Another Canadian with the same sentiment.
I feel like the same world needs to make a global Alliance where if America tarriffs Amy on country in the membership, everyone else responds with similar tarriffs.
America needs to learn that it isn’t alone in the world and it can’t survive in its current state without friends.
Poor Columbia having to give in to America’s demands over coffee, if they had an alliance with other countries maybe they could have said fuck you Trump.
That is probably the most effective thing that could happen. But if they won’t do it to Israel for committing genocide then I doubt they’d do it for it’s political doppelgänger.
I think it’s more likely they’ll go after us than go after Israel, because the world doesn’t have centuries or millenia of anti American bigotry stored up that in a twisted fashion leads them to let the Israeli government do whatever it wants to poor Muslims as long as that means there’s a Jewish state.
What complicates matters is all the military power we have and the certainty most people have that Trump would order it to attack anyone who embargoes us.
the unfortunate thing here, is the the US and the USD is so integral to global trade, that we would probably experience a global economic downturn similar to that of the great depression.
That’s happening either way, my dude.
The world has that option. Come to think of it, it’s pretty pitiful they haven’t the humanity to stand up to this monster looming across the sea.
I’m almost as disappointed in the rest of the world not standing up to the USA as I am disappointed in my fellow citizens’ abdication of social and civic responsibility, common decency, and basic humanity.
The only problem with accelerationism, is that sometimes it accelerates in a direction we didn’t expect or want.
It’s very possible that whatever terrible consequences befall our political body have been planned well in advance by smarter than us, or those in the cameras, and this whole thing is the groundwork for actually seizing and abolishing democracy.
Best case, we depose a wanna-be despot because things go to shit.
More likely case: we get both concentration camps AND a dictator.
It’s very possible that whatever terrible consequences befall our political body have been planned well in advance by people smarter than us, or those in the cameras, and this whole thing is the groundwork for actually seizing and abolishing democracy.
cope
I plan on complaining about it on the Internet. That’ll show 'em!
That seems to be the sentiment
Ok, what are YOU going to about it? You’ve stomped your feet and pointed your finger at just about everyone else in this thread, what’s your plan?
In the presidential campaign, when Trump said he would help out the average person, yet he filled his cabinet with nazi billionaires. I mean, what are we to believe, a criminal is held accountable, or something? Ha ha, boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
what are we to believe
Why Fox News, Newsmax and random cryptofucks of course!
Did we stop them from building the internment camps at the border in his last term?
Did we stop the Biden administration from using them once Trump built them? No, no we did not.
Okay now that we agree concentration camps bad, what is your opionion on trump making new ones?
Yeah, never mind, you know Trump built them. No bid deal great guy.
Does your arm get tired with all those straight elbow salutes or do you get used to it? How hard is it to learn that craze walk you guys do?
Biden made a gesture, but it was feckless and performative. He EO’d not renewing DOJ contracts with geogroup and core civic, but the current contracts stayed in place and were years from expiration. And, it was just DOJ which does not include ICE. Geo and core run the majority of these detention compounds on the border. They have been buying political influence with the money they get from government contracts. Of course Trump is all in for it. They have been lining his pockets for a long time. The more people locked up, the more money they make. And by “they” I am reffering to shareholders, which consist of cops and teachers and other municipal workers who have their pensions invested in geo and core. Capitalism has started to eat its own tail.
call these camps or detention centers whatever you want. It is the wrong language. These places are not owned and ran by the US gov. They are owned and ran by mostly 2 companies. Geogroup, and core civic. I encourage everyone to learn this, and to relay it. Instead of getting ride of these compounds, we need to get rid of these companies who have turned our justice department into a for profit billion $$$ industry. These companies are publicly traded. Cops and teachers have their pensions invested in them. YOU could have investments in them and not even know it. Esp if you work for the government
And this is where lemmy needs some mastodon features for boost and repost
I feel like “It’s not a concentration camp! it’s a for profit concentration camp!” isn’t the great rebuttal you think it is.
Nope
Yeah, I voted for Harris. Unfortunately, 6.27 Million 2020 Biden voters did not do the same.
And far more didn’t vote at all.
Let’s stop acting like we’re so surprised. Millions were told repeatedly what would happen and they did. Not. Care.
This is America. In all its ugliness. We truly need to own it because enough people here did not care.
Thats what I said, they didn’t voteat all. Trump votes did increase but only barely. The DNC voters just stayed home because everybody shits on them online.
ok, so the answer is ‘no’ for you, then
Poll aggregates projected a trump victory the entire cycle. It is not just suppression or intimidation, it is that we who did vote did not manage to convince everybody else to vote with us.
If they wanted to vote for a right wing reactionary they would have voted for Trump, not the one pandering to his base.
Enjoy Fascism then, innocent blood is on your hands.
Simple I couldn’t vote due to. Kamala deciding to stay silent in my offers. I don’t align with speeches but visions. I asked for a private dinner to discuss these future.
Enjoy Fascism then, blood is on your hands.
Right yes I actually meant to ignore you and comment on the next person down.
Nice try, FBI
I’m gonna be mad about it and have a negative opinion about the US.
Better then trying to deflect it on the democrats through some crazy mental gymnastics.
Sorry, I’ve been getting trolled since about 10PM last night.
Nah, I know who’s responsible. I just can’t do anything from my country. That’s a US problem. And Cuba I guess.
I don’t know what gymnastics you’ve already seen, but I think they share some blame. I agree Trump proposing to send migrants to Guantanamo falls on Trump and Trump alone. However, Obama and Biden both campaigned on closing Guantanamo and claimed it was a priority for their legacy. Both had 2 terms each to do so. Both could have done so with executive orders without the need of congress. But as soon as they were elected you never heard about it again. Because Dems don’t want to close Guantanamo. They want to have an offshore prison where they can detain people without due process and torture them on foreign soil. Dems love the police state and Dems love military expansionism as much as Republicans. It would be a lot harder for Trump to send people to Guantanamo if the facility had already been shut down and turned over to the Cuban government. So its not the Democrat’s fault but it would not have been possible if they had followed through with their campaign promises. So fuck Trump and fuck Elon as well, but let’s not pretend the Dems actually have any intention of advancing a progressive or even a populist agenda because they don’t.
Neither side is good on this issue. Trump opened camps and Biden continued to use them.
Yes, I already did, even before this particular news broke out…
I tried to individually tell every one I know (which is not too many ppl sadly), basically told every single one of them to consider back-up career options… There are a couple of 1-year exchange students from Europe in my floor and I have not-subtly hinted at them to make contingency plans for PhD training back home. I’ve been following the news very carefully recently so I can share relevant items as soon as possible… The people need to know. I’ve even considered making know-your-rights printouts before they claimed they’re doing an ICE raid in Chicago, but realized how little resources I have for that… I absolutely will do something. Not sure what it is but I can’t see society go this way.
I just feel bad that as a non-US citizen there is only so little I can do… I don’t even know if I could join a protest without being considered for deportation at this rate. Am planning my leave as well so there’s that.
Funny incident, I blurted out to my family 2-months ago that Trump will probably build a concentration camp and was told to shut the F up… Murphy’s law I suppose
Everyone who was supposed to prevent this and had the power to do so either tried and failed or didn’t bother.
Right now the objective is “Survive”, the bad guys have already won.
Yep.
Gonna be tough to stop the creation of the camp since it’s in Cuba but there are orgs that are rolling out strategies to protect people in their communities from getting caught up in this. Check out your local orgs and see who is working on this and cooperate with them.
That’s what I thought people might say and was hoping people would be more upset then this =/
I am upset about it but what else can we do?
This was exactly the same approach the Australian government took with its ‘pacific solution’. Offshore detention into remote, hard to access locales, classify all discussion of ‘illegal immigration’ under national security laws. Makes getting news in and out nearly impossible.
I dunno man…are you? I can’t afford to go to prison. I have three kids that rely on me for sustenance and a house. Nothing that Trump administration does is going to make life more difficult for me currently. I’m emailing politicians, trying to make good points online, and protest. I think that’s all I can do right now. Now, if my family is threatened, or I can no longer provide for my family, then we’ll talk again.
I think we’re starting to see in real time why nobody stopped Hitler either.
The people in power that are supposed to stop this aren’t. AOC is trying to rally people, but not sure how effective it’s going to be yet.
Anything you do as an individual is likely to fail and only make things way, way worse. So you tell me man…what should I do that I’m not already doing?
Nothing that Trump administration does is going to make life more difficult for me currently.
Woof. I remember saying that back in 2017. Four years later…
Recommenting from another post:
I sent a text to those I love in any capacity, even former coworkers who’ve probably deleted my number. Not a group text - one by one. I think it’d be prudent for all US readers to consider doing the same.
Knowing some of you are like me, in that you might not know how to word such a text to someone not expecting it from you, I offer you my copy/pasted text:
America has a concentration camp now. I won’t send you anything more…it’s kind of rude that I’m sending this one. lbc.co.uk/…/donald-trump-announces-plan-to-send-m…
A consideration to the ending of slavery in the United States was the advent of photography. Film was used to share the horror of the Nazi concentration camps in WW2 because they knew there would be people who deny history. Israel denied access and targeted journalists in Gaza for over a year for a reason.
Public perception sways from indifference to protests when they can’t look away from the destructive results. It’s the whole reason black sites like Guantanamo Bay exist in the first place and were used to hold extradited citizens without due process for years, they want to pretend the Constitution doesn’t exist and they haven’t sworn oaths to it and will do everything they can to hide their crimes.
@surph_ninja@lemm.ee Just pointed this out. We already see the horror every day. Aint nothing going to happen.
Maybe we can start by looking at all the corporations who are most supporting him, and push hard for boycotts. It might be slightly indirect, but corporate partners do seem to have the most influence on policy decisions. Maybe we could make a document in the style of the PrivacyGuides project to help people choose alternatives to fascist supporters.
I’ve seen posts on Mastodon calling for the general strike as well.
General strike is the way to go. It’s like peaceful protesting but it’s devastating to the thing they care about most. Older gen are mostly trumpets so they also get hit when their generational wealth drys up and they get to be the ones worrying about making rent.
I’ve been saying it but most people are hard programed not to question anything and never stick their neck out. I would have hoped concentration camps would be a line in the sand but just look, all over the this post people are obsfucating who is responsible. They think it’s important to assign blame to democrats, an almost irrelevant factor after they proved they can no longer win elections at a national level.
Anyway, I’ll be there with you when the strike hits. By that I mean the strike of the billy club as they throw me in a patty wagon for dissent.
I made a community for it.
Guantanamo bay was a thing ever since 2002. Biden and Obama tried to make it smaller. Trump is trying to grow it. If there was a clear action to be done that ended this abhorrence it would have been done by now already, but it has proved too resilient already. So no, there isn’t anything that’s gonna be done about it, except grow it as per Trump’s request.
Is there anything Americans could do to petition other countries to help us? ICC or the UN? Or in civil court, could we crowdfund lawyers to sue the government?
Nice try FBI guy.
I don’t genuinely think there is anything we can do without getting rid of our current government in its entirety. That or stuff I won’t say online
We have had one there for 25 years now.
You just watched over a year of a live-streamed genocide. What makes you think either party is opposed to this? Or that the people will draw the line here?
And then the US said to Germany, “We too, can do Auschwitz.”
I guess most Americans will celebrate? They voted for it, the end of the Tyrannical woke Biden era.
I’m sure the private prison industry will lobby to use them as slaves
opposition? in THIS democratic party?
Think the only ways to stop this is passing a bill prohibiting using money on GITMO like the Republicans did with the prohibition of spending money to close GITMO.
Or lawsuits.
Already did it. Got the fuck out. It’s not like I can swim to Gitmo.
I think it’s a distinct possibility, obviously there is something going on that he doesn’t want the American people to see. Best case scenario, ill treatment of detainees, worst case scenario, yeah it’s a death camp.
Uh, I missed this one. Someone got the backstory?
watson387@sopuli.xyz 3 months ago
No one in the government is going to do anything about it. They’ll argue about it, but nothing will be done. They all bow and lick the boot of a fucking clown. Trump, with a lot of help from billionaires and the media, lied and manipulated his way into power. He’s just a mouthpiece and easily manipulated; not smart enough to come up with any of this. The fact that 33%+ of the country’s population thinks he’s a genius is sickening.
Immigration is the horror show they’re going to use as a distraction while they pass Christofascist laws, all while Trump and his new billionaire buddies loot the country. I would suggest everyone actually read Project 2025 and see what their future plans are.
gothic_lemons@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Most power is freely given in authoritarian regimes. We should fight back, not give up hope. We should call and write our representatives in congress.
This was a law that went throught congress first. 12 democrats voted for it. Those Democrats we should be flooded with our thoughts and feelings on the issue.
Republicans as well. I’d like to believe there are a few left who don’t agree with what’s going on, but are too spineless to do anything about it. Maybe guilt and pressure can make them fight next time.
We should fight too and nail with everything we have. We haven’t totally lost our democracy until they shred the constitution and write a new one, or pack it with amendments.
Mateoto@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Seriously. Americans act like scared puppies, barking but backing down when facing an orange pomeranian constantly barking.
The people have the power. Organize statewide protests, block roads, and mobilize the working class to stand against fascism. Be more like the French citoyens.
Stop waiting for someone else to save your asses. This is 2016 all over again, when you pinned your hopes on Mueller or some other investigator. No one is coming.
Stop whining. Take action. Fight fascism.