What's the deal with male loneliness?

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨ComicalMayhem@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

Like, why is it so widespread, what causes it, what solutions are available, etc. I don’t really know how to ask this question so I hope I’m making sense

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hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
This is a video about it, which I think takes a very sobering approach to it. Her humor tends to be very dark, but if you look at the comment section, she seems to be hitting it head on.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQv8VuLpKN4

Now for solutions, I don’t know anyone who talks about it beyond the basics of “listen to men” and “give them a healthier and less judgy space to develop social skills”. But that’s probably because this is such a complex issue and there seems to be no simple solution.

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- lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Man I had to scroll far down for this. I know her appearance and character is a bit hard to take seriously but she makes great points in this video.
  
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felixwhynot@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
One thing that helps loneliness is communities, especially those that meet IRL. I believe there has been a significant decline in club membership and social groups in the past decades. I think there are several factors behind this, including financial stress (and the resulting scarcity of free time).

One action that people can take is to join communities and participate in them! Even just online groups with similar interests if not IRL groups can help to make friends and feel connected. HTH

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muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Because everything that used to give men purpose nolonger exists or is nolonger viable.

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- smileyhead@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Because borning a child yourself is the purpose of life and without it there is no sense in living.
  
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  - muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    The fuck u tryna say?
    
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ogmios@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
There’s been a concerted effort over the last several decades to push a men vs women dynamic online, and most men don’t buy into it, so it’s really just been people shitting all over men without consequence.

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Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I’ve thought about this a lot myself. I’m 12-15 friends/acquaintances down due to them deciding to step out of life in their twenties or thirties. On paper none of them seemed to be in too bad a way and yet…

There’s obviously the problem that having and discussing emotions is for girls and gays only (/s), but there must be more to it than that.

I think there’s an expectation (where I live) that men should be strong and stoic at all times - but, honestly, many of us are fragile little flowers, some of the time, but it’s seen (erroneously) as weakness.

In my experience most men are happy to talk about: “big screen tv’s, blunts, 40’s and bitches” to NSFW quote

Steve Berman

but they can’t open up about emotions and feelings.

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- KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Sorry for your loss.
  
  Yes, I think of emotional talk as “showing weakness”, because people around me gladly lash out at the exposed surface. Men and women do that, but it hurts more from women. They seem to be better at dealing emotional damage, or I’m just more receptive when it comes from them.
  
  Also, talk about feelings needs to be handled, and can be handled very poorly. It also can seem demanding. “When I have my plate full of my own stuff I don’t want to deal with yours”, or similar mindsets when the tools to properly handle such a situation were just never acquired.
  
  On the other hand talk about sportsball is a way to entertain oneself while giving the lizardbrain time to adapt to the people around it.
  
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  - Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I think you’re correct that (some / many) people see the tiniest chink in your armour and go for the juggler (jugular vein - clown 🤡 joke) to compound your misery to make themselves feel/look “strong”.
    
    And, yes, in abusive relationships I believe a husband is more likely to hurt and damage his wife with his fists whereas a wife would be more likely to hurt and damage her husband with words - generally speaking. It’s tragic either way…
    
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Zorque@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
What’s the deal with poorly explained questions?

Why don’t they provide more context for their perspective? Do they think people will magically know what they mean without them explaining it?

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- FrostyCaveman@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I think that’s part of the fun of an “ask people” forum, the answers reveal the common understanding of the definition of the question itself!
  
  For example, In this question the term “male loneliness” is seemingly semantically meaningful. It seems to be a name given to the popular perception or understanding of a certain phenomenon.
  
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  - Zorque@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Part of the fun of a forum is interacting with people as well, which OP didn’t do. Just shit in the forum and fucked off.
    
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Snowclone@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Part of capitalism is a need for high consumer culture. I grew up in a Latin American culture, and there are American sub cultures that also work similarly, there’s no nuclear family. Of course your relationship with your parents and siblings are very strong and important, but you have no problem living with grandma, or having your extended family live all very close together, my family were all in the same apartment complex in an immigrant neighborhood. I grew up with my cousins, like every day, if we didn’t want to play outside we’d go to different houses to see what everyone was watching on TV, we shuffle around with the different game consoles at different houses, food was entirely communal. After I got married to a typical American partner and started raising our kids together I was very shocked to find out that some food in the house is apparently owned by someone. And eating that food is a serious offense. Anyway, people used to live very close if not in a large family home with extended families. Why was this bad for capitalism? One large house owner by an entire family of 12-22 people securely, in which no one needs to buy their own home. We’re a few cars and carpooling is a simple task, where food is distributed to the hungry without a lot of steps between grocer and table, I was wearing clothes my uncle wore when I was an adult. When everyone dresses in a similar manner and suits and work close lasted generations, a pair of taken care of shoes or boots that just get repaired every few decades, are you starting to see the problem? That NOT good for capitalism. When the concept of the nuclear family took hold there was a huge boom in home conduction, hardware stores, department stores, companies made fortunes off baby boomers, all this individualized products, razors, deodorant, soap, every stage in life requires a new variety of soap, 10 kinds of cereal to pick from, new shoes every 6mo.

Humans are Apes. Every other ape on the planet lives in large troops that mutually aid eachother and who is boss, and who is contending to take over, who has first pick of food and women, it’s based on what? Being hella aggro? Being bigger, stronger, what? Usually it comes down to who has the best social skills, who ever bonds with the most members of the troop, because when a fight ensures, it’s not about who is smart, cunning, or strong, it’s about how many apes jump in on your side. We are DEEPLY social animals. The nuclear family isolated men the most. Toxic masculinity harms men on a HUGE scale. Quietly, emotionless, provide a secure home, two or more cars, and income to spare to the family you alone protect. It’s pretty lonely. Many men don’t even have friendships, one of the worst aspects of toxic masculinity is that it’s a sign of weakness to be kind, caring, and nurturing. You know. Those aspect of social life that make every other species of ape successful. So where do men locked out of this already broken system go? They look for groups that will accept them, invite them out, bond with them socially. And who’s funding all these far right groups that do this with millions of dollars? Russia. Far right billionaires and millionaires who don’t want these men talking about WHY they are locked out of the system. If you look around you can also notice a lot of small service business aren’t run by white people. You see Hispanic, Asian, east Indian people, who ‘‘are all packed into that house like sardines’’ with a staff of related people doing the work. Consumer culture is a dead end. The Nuclear family is a dead end.

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Econgrad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Men have been taught not to approach women in public unless it’s online in a dating app. Women have always been taught not to approach men.

So no one is having relationships except for a very small portion of people who are disproportionately physically attractive.

Pair that with the hypergamy that women are doing where they only chase men out of their league now for the most part and it makes things that used to be normal and taken for granted like getting married and having a family exceptional jewels that are hard to come by.

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- Pazu900@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  This isn’t true. This is what right wing loser podcasters claim to further women or libruls as the problem. It’s a much deeper problem than that.
  
  If you actually spend time around women you’ll find that looks are a way lower priority for them than for men. You’ll find that they value things like being understanding, doing interesting things, being trustworthy, and for physical things as long as you’re hygienic and have a semblance of style they really don’t care much even if you’re heavier. And guess what? These are ALL things you can work on to improve yourself.
  
  Want to have more women like you? Work on yourself first. Women aren’t attracted to men who complain online about “I’m not allowed to go talk to them in public”
  
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  - botterotter@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    At least in my experience, women tend to care about looks just about the exact same amount as men, that is to say some care almost exclusively about looks and some not at all, and everywhere in between, and at about the same rates from what I’ve seen. Anecdotal tho, and the general gist of what you said still applies, I’m just being pedantic lol
    
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- Lanthanae@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Interesting that you took this post to be entirely about romantic/sexual relationships, especially since a partner should not be solely responsible for assuaging your lonliness.
  
  Even if everyone had a partner/spouse male loneliness would still be a massive issue because men aren’t socialized in a way that equips them to have emotionally intimate platonic friendships. If my wife was my ONLY friend, I’d still be very lonely. Furthermore, even if I wasn’t dating someone, I wouldn’t be lonely because of the friends I have.
  
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- Pacattack57@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I was about to write this exact thing and you’re already getting downvotes for it. People refuse to except reality.
  
  There is an extremely large portion of men that are scared to put themselves out there because they are ostracized as creeps and fear the consequences of social shaming. “The worst she can say is no” is no longer true. The worst she can do is take a video of you while she publicly shames you for being a creep and trying to rape her.
  
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  - Acamon@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I think the reason for down votes is that the comment suggests that issues with dating are the reason for male loneliness, when most people in the thread would argue that believing that ‘a romantic partner is the only acceptable source of meaningful emotional connection available to men’ is a big part of male loneliness.
    
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  - Zron@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Met my wife online during the pandemic.
    
    Dated a fair few women before her, meeting online and in real life.
    
    I’m not super attractive, and pretty awkward, but I always make the effort to be polite and actually listen instead of waiting to talk, you’d be amazed how far that actually gets you.
    
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LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
And what’s up with cab drivers and B.O. - how long are those shifts? I’m thinkin’ Hey!

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- jaschen@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  What’s up with dumb answers to serious questions? I’m just wondering, Hey!
  
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jagged_circle@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
What makes you think this is a gendered thing?

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- HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I don’t think it is a gendered thing, but there are societal expectations regarding men versus women that can complicate the issue
  
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  - jagged_circle@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Anyone who has gendered expectations is not a friend. Avoid them.
    
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- phoneymouse@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Women are better at being friends to each other. I’ve basically given up on trying to make friends with other men because they are terrible friends. At best, they make no effort at all at friendship and are completely passive, requiring you to call and make all the plans. At worst, they are hostile in various ways when you try to befriend them.
  
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mke_geek@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
If people are lonely it’s because they cause it themselves.

I’m in an activity group and it’s mostly the women of the group who are organizing the events. The men sign up to attend. The women are the ones who make plans and the men just go along.

Why don’t the men take initiative?

Even playing a board game, the guys just sit there playing a game. The women are the ones who introduce themselves, ask other people their names, what they do for a living, engage in conversation. This is all stuff men could be doing themselves but choose not to.

Some men isolate themselves using video games and didn’t join any social groups then complain that they are lonely. It’s like complaining you’re hungry when the food is right in front of you but you just won’t eat it – you’re expecting someone else to literally feed you.

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- Mrfiddles@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  A lot of men were never taught to do this. We raise young girls to be incredibly social, but boys are not socialized to nearly the same extent. You can see this in Autism diagnoses. Girls are diagnosed as a much lower rate and the ones that do receive the diagnosis tend to be really severe cases. The leading theory as to why is that society places so many social expectations on girls that the more mild cases quickly learn to mask and pass themselves off as neurotypical.
  
  Hell, I’m 35 and I just started a group chat with some of my bros in order to help with motivation to get things done (it’s basically a stand up meeting but for our personal lives/goals). NONE of them even know each other, they were just doing this to help me out because I’m burned out. 2 weeks in and they had all thanked me privately for giving them a social outlet and improving their mood. None of us usually text people unless we need to, and now we’ll routinely get roped into conversations because someone shares an interesting update.
  
  Meanwhile my wife is juggling 3 different group chats in addition to half a dozen friends she keeps in touch with 1-1.
  
  There might be some biological mechanism too, but I think a lot of it boils down to boys have “productive labor” modelled for them as ideal behavior while girls are taught how to be considerate friends.
  
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  - mke_geek@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    This makes it seem like men can’t learn. There’s nothing biological about organizing an event or talking to people.
    
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- Smoogs@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  plenty of men out there do planning
  
  going along with someone is not a lack of socializing it can be their way of supporting.
  
  In fact it’s probably better that a dude doesn’t take over on a woman doing it because that has been taught to be all sorts of sexist now. I know if it were me in the middle of organizing and some dude took over I’d be all sorts of pissed off.
  
  There is social aspect in video games too. In fact there is a large amount of social presence online. You also have wallflowers online but just saying, if someone is looking at their screen it doesn’t necessarily mean they are incapable of social ability. there’s actually a skill in online presence.
  
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orcrist@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
What exactly are you talking about? Men who feel lonely sometimes? Men without friends? Men who are not having sex?

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- abbadon420@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Men without hats?
  
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Godthrilla@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
We’re meant to be alone.

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- Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  We aren’t though. That’s just something we’re told.
  
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- insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I need the most cynical take you have…
  
  Hans Moleman (from The Simpsons) standing inside a cracked phone-booth
  
  …nooooh, that’s too cynical.
  
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- yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Humans are social animals
  
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Mammothmothman@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
There is a lot of comments faulting society. But the individuals need to take personal accountability. Choosing to live online is what I see as the crux of this issue. This comes from personal experience of living online and being loney and miserable untill i started getting out and meeting people. This lonelyness “epedemic” is people not managing their screen time.

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- SoftTeeth@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Generally if there is a massive trend in society then only systemic changes will change that trend.
  
  Sure it would be nice if every incel worked out, microdosed mushrooms and became more selfless people, but that’s not something that will happen.
  
  One thing that would fix a lot of this would be the government better regulating daying apps, since that’s how the vast majority of people meet their partners now.
  
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1984@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Social media changed dating, and made it ok for both women and men to treat eachother as commodities, resources, status symbols.

This bleeds over in real life, where women don’t need/want to have relationships with men anymore in the west (outside of their love relationship). They already get all the attention they need from social media.

Some women can be cold there days and dismissive. They don’t trust men and because some men are awful, we all get the same treatment.

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- Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  Social media changed dating, and made it ok for both women and men to treat eachother as commodities, resources, status symbols.
  
  I stopped reading right here. Men and women have ALWAYS treated each other as commodities. Since…always. Hell, you can go back to the early 1900s before women were allowed to vote, and your wife was LITERALLY considered your property. Some cities like Kansas City even allowed you to legally beat your wife, because again, she was your property.
  
  Or you can go back even farther than that. You can go to the 1400s in England, and mothers would willingly hand over their sons to the king. Sons as young as 9 years old. And the reason was so that the king could have casual sex with your children. And this was not only accepted, but encouraged socially back then. Mothers would brag to other people in their social circles that the king chose THEIR son to fuck in the butt at 9 years old. That was like a status symbol for your family to have your kids chosen for the king’s personal sexual purposes.
  
  So yeah, social media had nothing to do with people treating other people like objects. That shits been going on probably longer than the concept of literacy and the written word.
  
  When it comes to dating, most men date for looks, most women date for status/wealth. And then people wonder why so many relationships fall apart. It’s because SO many people are just looking for the blonde girl with the biggest tits, or the doctor with the biggest paycheck.
  
  Well looks can fade, and wealth can disappear. If you marry a girl for her looks in your 20s, you’ll be bitter in your 60s. And if you marry a guy for his bank account, you’ll still be stuck with him if he gets a prenup, or goes bankrupt.
  
  Don’t date someone for what they bring to the table. Date someone for who they are as a person. Because an average looking girl who’s amazing to hang out with will still be amazing to hang out with then they’re old. And a blue collar working man may not be rich, but he’ll still give you the shirt off his back to prevent seeing you be unhappy. Even when you’re old.
  
  All these relationships I see today are just people looking to use other people, until you see the rare ones that you realize “Yeah! They’re going to last together.” Meanwhile Britney Bangs-a-lot is on her 7th marriage.
  
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LordWiggle@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I know Jordan Peterson has a lot of followers. He says it’s the women’s fault men are lonely. He says men are their victim, pictures women as evil while men should be on top. This creates an even bigger isolation and creates sex offenders.

In Japan and South Korea there are many men who are isolated because of videogames and it’s online culture. They have a relationship with a Nintendo character of AI on their phone (no joke).

Because a lot of lonely men are in the internet, it’s not a representation of the real world. Doesn’t change the fact there are many non the less.

Just because there are many different cultures access able for anyone through the internet, it’s easier to isolate yourself in such a culture. Whether it’s on reddit, 4chan, through games, forums or sm groups. But it keeps you off the streets, away from real socializing, learning to behave, how to talk to a girl, find a hobby which isn’t on your computer, meet real friends.

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- FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  I know Jordan Peterson has a lot of followers. He says it’s the women’s fault men are lonely
  
  Peterson has a habit of saying things that might technically be true in isolation but will then disagree with you when you try and make a conclusion from it. In this case he has also said it’s men’s fault for not making women a good enough ‘offer’.
  
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  - LordWiggle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    He’s a racist, misogynist, narcicist, piece of shit who sexually objectified his own daughter (if not more than that)
    
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N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Lack of socializing. We’ve lost the third place in modern society. It’s work and home and nothing else. Lots of people work from home now, which is great, but only if you have a third place. You have to meet people in the real world and find a way to connect with them.

People laugh, but churches are a good way to do that. Check one out, sit in the back, and watch the people who show up- the demographics, make sure the congregation is diverse, etc. If you see a same-sex couple walk in and sit down like they’ve done it a hundred times, you don’t have to worry about all the hate bullshit.

Church is a great way to meet people in a place where everyone feels safe and accepted. They are extremely welcoming to newcomers. There are always activities and groups to join. Churches have been the third place for literally centuries.

Even if you have irreconcilable philosophical differences, check out a Unitarian church.

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- FuglyDuck@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Church is not a great place for third places- unless you happen to be like all the others at that particular church.
  
  No church will actually accept you unless you’re the same as them. The “sameness” doesn’t have to be about race or orientation or accepting that.
  
  They might be totally willing to let you in the front door, but unless you conform, that won’t be for long.
  
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  - j4k3@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I’ve never talked to anyone in a library. Have you? Generally conversations are taboo in my experience. Maybe things have changed since I was able to go to one and relax.
    
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- lordnikon@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  This is good advice but also note there are other alternatives to church that function the same way like humanist churches or the satanic temple. Note the satanic temple has nothing to do with satin and is not the same as the church of satin.
  
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Sonor@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
What i really want to see is how the rise of ai companions will affect all this. Nomi, replika, and the others are already doing good, and i forsee that it will keep growing as the technology improves, for better or for worse

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- rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  They are not doing good. People are becoming dependent on chatbots produced by for-profit companies to get their fix of human socialisation. That’s absolutely awful, very unfortunate, and most assuredly unhealthy.
  
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  - Sonor@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    What i meant by good was financially, not as “good for society”. Maybe i should have made that clear
    
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Sam_Bass@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Too much duplicitousness out there

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kandoh@reddthat.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
There’s a multitude of reasons, my personal favourite is that men are highly aggressive sexual creatures and the stigma against homosexuality is hindering our ability to form fulfilling relationships with our male peers.

Just crack open a history book, looks like a lot of the masculine activities came with a considerable amount of gay sex. Like, it seems like the main draw of joining an army to go to war is that you can fuck a bunch of dudes the whole time you’re away on campaign.

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- Feathercrown@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Deranged take
  
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- Dogiedog64@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Bro has never met another man before SMH.
  
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- Zombiebadguy@lemmynsfw.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Dude… what the fuck???
  
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- DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  you poor simple bastard
  
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Coreidan@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Yes because only males can be lonely.

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MITM0@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
People simply just don’t like men

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RatzChatsubo@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Women are not putting themselves out anymore

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- spujb@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Women don’t owe you sex, learn and grow as a person
  
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BigTrout75@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I would like to blame modern society but since the term “Lone Wolf” exists, I’m guessing it’s older than that.

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TachyonTele@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Asking the big questions over here. You’ll be rich if you find the answer.

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Lazhward@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
youtu.be/X4sMv7zs4m4

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