Submitted 1 day ago by BadmanDan@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/70a880a8-175e-4dcc-b799-4afb88a328ef.jpeg
Now that we have final numbers. It appears that Harris had all the white & black support she needed for an EC victory. But Trump outright flipping Latino men and making huge gains with Latino women seems to have made all the difference.
What do you think?
First image is 2024, second is 2020.
These are national statistics. They bear no direct relation to the outcome.
Kamala lost because the Dems didn’t show up. Again. Look at the number of votes for 2020 vs 2024. All those “undecided” and “obstainers” that didn’t just stay home. They didn’t bother doing a mail in.
White people voting for the right is the problem. Like how can we go on here and blame Latinos for shifting when such a high percentage of white people voted for him? Especially when you factor in the population size and not just % left or right.
I am ashamed of my peers.
Since Trump’s number one message was about immigration, it makes me wonder how Latinos took that message. A bystanding white person might think that Latinos should be appalled at the way Mexican immigrants were painted as criminals. But then again, maybe Mexican immigrants who’ve been in the US a while look down on that recently arriving, or don’t want more of them to compete with. After all if you are a Mexican immigrant, you probably compete with other Mexican immigrants for work on some level. So there again we have the failure of identity politics. It’s about economics, not identity.
Oh no doubt in my mind it’s the same as the stockholm syndrome afflicted gay men who were all over social media supporting Trump. It doesn’t matter what the Republican party does or says, men in the US want to support it and delude themselves that they aren’t it’s targets.
Whole thread full of people blaming an entire race and sex whether that’s Latinos, Latino men, Whites, or White men. You ask a stupid question and you get stupid answers.
Don’t forget all the people who voted for Biden in 2020 and didn’t fucking vote in 2024
15 million of them. That is a staggering number.
15 million of them. That is a staggering number.
It’s also not an accurate number. The official count for Biden in 2020 was about 81.3 million (found many places online, but the official one is a good choice) and the unofficial count for Harris by AP so far is about 74.3 million. That’s about 7 million, which is less than half of what you claimed.
People have got to stop just posting straight up false information. If you don’t know, don’t post.
I think white men and white women bear more of the blame here purely by population size.
Agreed. Despite all the nuances, which are important, too. Judging by this table, the biggest blame it on white men, followed by latino men and white women.
Latines make up 20% of the population. They are the largest “minority” population. They make up closer to 30% of under 18 demographics. If population trends continue, they will be the largest ethnic group in the country in about 25 years. That’s three eight-year presidential terms.
They’re a minority ethnicity, but the largest one and the second-fastest growing one behind Asians, who, despite one of the lowest birth rates, have proportionally the highest rate of immigration. Trump also gained 12% in the Asian electorate as well. I would say these voting trends, if they continue, look extremely promising for Republicans in the future.
All that said, Black, Asian, and Latine men and women voters combined comprise roughly 29% of the voting public in presidential elections. White women alone comprise 38%. Latino men are 5% for comparison. White women are the largest voting demographic by far.
In 2016, 39% of white women voted for Trump. In 2020, 44% of white women voted for Trump. In 2024, 53% of white women voted for Trump.
I’m all for blaming minorities for the democrats sagging support (I’m not), but if we’re looking for someone at which to point our fingers, if white women had voted like they did in 2016 when Trump was elected the first time, every single Latino man (I realize that’s redundant) could have voted for Trump, and Harris would have still received more total votes.
With how thin our election margins are, I wonder if literally just misogynists can swing the election. Would 1 in 100 Americans refuse to vote for a woman for president? I think maybe yes.
It’s hard to separate out the factors. Would a man have also struggled with a campaign starting so late (and doing so poorly in a previous primary). Would a white women? How can we separate out the influence of race, sex and the less than ideal running circumstances.
Given who she is, and running when she had to, she actually did pretty damn well.
Tbh looking for blame beyond biden seems pointless to me. She has every sign of having been able to win over more people had she been prepped as the nominee fun the start…
As another White Dude for Harris, I concur entirely. It’s definitely an issue with white dudes.
Who’s talking blame?
White people are so obsessed with blaming an optgroup like what about all the white guys that voted for him
What about all the white women who voted for Trump? Benefitting from structural racism is a helluva drug
… but he’ll make my racist life better, he told me! /s
I know! Let’s blame EVERYBODY. That way nobody is left out and we can just admit we ALL fucked up so next time we can constructively work together to NOT fuck up instead of slinging mud at each other for the next four years.
not gonna happen. harris supporters still think genociding and massive wealth inequalities are okay. dems have lost my vote nationally until they start supporting labor and stop fucking warmongering.
Congrats on your surplus privilege! But I have some bad news for you…
Please be careful whenever you ask these questions. It’s so easy to blame one single minority group for a widespread failure. Of course analysis of individual voting groups is legitimate, as long as you properly frame what you’re doing.
This is a serious issue both because of the connection with racism (i.e., it’s the Latinos’ fault) and abdication of responsibility (i.e., we bear no responsibility).
“Are we out of touch with our core voters?”
“No, it’s the voters who are wrong”.
This will probably be how the Democrats regroup after the loss.
As a data analyst, the way the two graphs are setup terribly. There’s really not enough information to come up with any conclusions from the charts.
Also, first, there’s not enough information from the graphs to determine the situation since it’s only by percentages and not population. Second, our system is based on the winners of each state and used by the electoral votes. So overall popular vote isn’t going to determine who got elected, even if the chart showed all blue for all demographics.
Need some titles on those columns. I’m guessing red/blue are the usual party colors, but what is the 3rd?
The biggest factor really is disengagement. There where millions who where involved in 2020 that just skipped out this time.
3rd is the percentage of the vote amongst all demographics.
Why are columns 1 & 2 shifter between the two images? Makes comparison harder.
The 3rd column might be the relative share of registered or eligible voters.
Your narrative is that Latinos “shifted right” but I think this is a false framing- it was the Biden/Harris administration that shifted hard right on its proposed immigration policies and it left many Latino voters feeling politically abandoned.
Look at the Democrats’ 2024 immigration bill- it is deportations, immigration quotas, and building the wall - while including nothing “left of center” such as amnesty. It is literally a Trump 2016 wishlist.
So the solution to not liking the democrat shift right is to join in with the side off the scale right? I’m not following the logic there…
Populist messaging is popular because it acknowledges that people are suffering and offers easy “solutions” to it.
Most folks don’t actually want to hear the details, they’re both busy and don’t fucking understand it without the benefits of a educational system that has been systemically destroyed for decades.
Trump said he’ll fix the economy and blamed Biden, Harris wanted to pretend that the lines went up so things were good because she was effectively burdened as an incumbent candidate.
Harris decentivized her base of support by chasing Lucy’s football of Republicans that aren’t fucking fascists, going after the Cheney votes of all fucking things, Trump siphoned votes from people that don’t quite know how to fix the problem but know there is a problem.
You can point to Harris’s specific policies all you want, the people you need to get to the polls and vote for you don’t know about them because they’re boring.
I’m not proposing a “solution” here, but the logic is obvious: as the Democratic Party moves to the right, their traditional base becomes more alienated and less incentivized to vote.
A lot of Latinos are fairly conservative people, a lot of them are strongly Catholic with all of the baggage that comes with it, etc.
Basically the only major policy reason they ever leaned towards the democrats is immigration, so with the Dems going further right on immigration it makes a lot of sense for some of them to be jumping ship
Why go with republican-light if the real thing exists? Catering to the center and right wing as Democrats is off-putting to basically everyone except libs
wow, you answer one question about abortion by saying immigrants are rapists and suddenly people feel abandoned. tsk tsk.
I think you’re trying to force a narrative on to this that doesn’t exist. You’re assuming that many of these Latino voters are against harder immigration policy. Polls are telling us the opposite. Poles are telling us that a lot of these Latinos that voted for Trump want this. They didn’t think Biden was too strong on immigration they thought he was too weak.
This literally makes no sense. That immigration bill was bipartisan. And if Latinos felt Dems shifted to far right (which is laughable if you actually look at the policies), why would they vote even further right? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
The fact that any group aside from white men voted for trumpism is the issue. The disconnect was the complicit main stream media sane washing the craziness. They put racism/homophobia/fascism on the same level as Harris’ policies.
Idk, white folks voting for Trump is an issue if you ask me, a white guy. Too many white folks sane washing his shit. Morning Joe went from “he’s a fascist” to “let’s put out differences aside”. Other whities need to realize this is a grift that will likely kill your own.
I object!
White men voting for trumpism is also the issue.
For sure, though I get the op point that at least Trump pretends to promise them something unlike every other group
Someone pointed out that a lot of Latinos are effectively white, like Cruz and Rubio.
Miami Cubans are absolutely convinced they’re white and not immigrants. Source : 20+ years in Miami
So at what point do they become locals? Caucasian people were also immigrants at some point
Only 5% of Latino men shifted. That chart says Latino men were 4% of the total vote. Harris needed more than another .02%
I think you’re getting confused by the column placement. This appears to be a 16 point shift with another 3% loss for Harris on top of that.
Yup… You’re right. 19% of 4% is 0.76%.
Much more, but not enough to tip the scales.
Quiet you, it has to be our fault. There’s just no way he got someone with satellite network access to fuck with the numbers while everyone got distracted by an unusually large number of bomb threats specifically in the swing states.
To actually answer the post title you’d have to go state by state in the swing states to see if she could flip enough of them to make a difference. I suspect the bigger problem is still lack of turnout rather than any specific demographic.
A functional, coherent working class policy would’ve ticked some of those numbers in the campaign’s favor across the board without even having to divide by race or gender.
I don’t think this is what you intended OP but we should be careful not to blame voters here. Trump and his enablers are to blame for what he does, not voters.
That said, this is interesting. The shift to Trump among most communities was tiny, which could explain why most people were so surprised by this outcome. But why did Latinos shift to the right so much? That’s what I’d like to know.
I’m not blaming anyone, I’m just pointing out the actual data and asking how & why? For example,
White turnout increased this election, but trump lost some white men & women support again like he did in 2020. And it appears Harris did bettter with white women than Obama, Hillary or Biden. The white vote didn’t change that much.
Black turnout was slightly down, and Trump was able to make a small 2% gain from black men, which isn’t much considering they made up 5% of the electorate this election.
As for the “other” demo. It’s every other ethnicity, but none of them are really big enough to have really big impact unless a specific state has a very large percentage of them and they all go overwhelmingly one way.
So I’m just saying, the only big outlier I see is the Latino vote. Which shifted HUGE for trump, and it appears that’s what won him the election. And I’m asking is that true? And if so, why? Compared to other demos.
If that lasr column is population, latino men are 1/7 compared to white men. So the larger difference is much smaller than it appears. And how did there get to be so many more latino women than men.
No, the last column is what percentage of the vote they made up.
Ah. Similar effect in reducing the net difference
It is also crazy that I lived long enough to see more Latino men vote Republican than white women 😂
Do some rough math say there are 200,000,000 total eligible voters.
2024 would have 12,000,000 male Latino voters 2020 would have 10,000,000 based on the 3rd column
Even if 100% went left to right at most you have a 12M shift.
That shift though in absolute numbers was far less than that though based on the R/D split, so not a tremendous impact over all.
There was just a lot less people showing up over all for any reason.
I don’t think anyone shifted right. They just didn’t want whatever it was that Harris was selling.
Ummm, yes they did. Latino male turnout went up 1%. More of them voted this election than 2020. Which means they shifted right.
The percentage of all Latino voters going up between 2020 and 2024 doesn’t necessarily mean there was more turn out from Latinos; if the voter demographics have shifted between 2020 and 2024 so that Latinos make up 1% more of the population, then they are still turning out at the exact same per capita rate as before, as a group.
Which sounds like a short time, but that’s a small shift and plenty of people turn 18 every day.
Non sequitur, there are many analyses of the party change and they don’t all boil down to left vs right.
Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
It’s really unclear, to me, what these tables are even saying. What’s each column?
Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Collumn 1 is Percentage that voted for the Winner (Republican 2024/Democrat 2020), Column 2 the Loser, Column 3 is the percentage of the people polled.
So row Latino men: 55% voted for Trump, 43% Voted for Harris, and 6% of the exit poll said they were Latino men.
TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
The first two columns is what percentage each party receive for that particular demographic. The third column is the percentage that demographic made up of the total votes.
So the each rows first two columns should add the 100%. The final column should add to 100%.