Or open up job prospect and educational value?
What traveling? You don’t need 4 languages for Disney World/Land.
Why don;t most of us Americans only need like one foreign language to pass high school? Why not make it mandatory for like 3 or 4 languages?Would that not give us the upper hand when traveling?
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
etchinghillside@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
starlinguk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Learning a language helps develop the brain.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Clearly you haven’t been to EPCOT.
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
US isn’t even teaching the 1 very well. 7th grade is way too late to begin that kind of learning.
AskewLord@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
7th grade? I never took a foreign language until 9th grade. I have two nephews, and both of them never took one until 10th.
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
Mine was 7th and 8th were each half of WhateverLanguage 1 course.
neidu3@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Not sure about other countries, but here in Norway, English lessons start in the 2nd grade. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s similar in the rest of Europe.
Waldelfe@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
English starts in 3rd grade here and a second language like French or Spanish usually in 5th grade. Starting to learn foreign languages in high school is wild.
bufalo1973@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
In Spain there are places where two languages are taught at once since the first minute. There are two official languages. And a third one is taught soon after that.
percent@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
I think this is one of the reasons why people from English-speaking countries are less motivated to learn other languages; English is almost everywhere, to varying degrees.
It’s sort of a gift and a curse. I enjoy learning languages, but there’s no practical need for me to, so I’m bad at it 🙈
grranibal@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
In Portugal, mandatory English classes start on the 5th grade, but from 1st grade kids have the option to take English classes as an extracurricular
Spitefire@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I honestly think it’s because in measures of distance, a US American could be considered well-traveled without ever having left the United States. Living in DC and visiting Florida or California is a big trip logistically. I love to travel and have moved a LOT and I have just barely been to every state in the US (some I only drove through, fuck rural Nebraska). While I disagree personally, I think that most Americans just don’t see the immediate utility in learning other languages.
Not learning Spanish in school as a requirement at this point is just racism, though.
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I grew up in the shittiest state and even we took Spanish. Middle school though. I’d say if we ever get through this racist fest, the basics of French, Spanish, and Chinese would be nice in elementary. Maybe with more advanced options for Spanish in later years since that’s our best chance for cultural immersion if they leave our Latina/Latino brothers and sisters alone for 5 seconds.
percent@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
Fun fact: You can learn without school. There’s sooo much information outside of school walls, and it’s easier to access now than ever in the history of humanity.
nocturne@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
But learning in school gives you people to communicate with in the new language. Something that can be tougher to find on your own.
percent@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
There are language exchange sites and apps for that. Lots of people learn languages just as a fun hobby, and there are many resources out there for it
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Unless you keep using the language, you will loose it, I am bilingual Swedish/English, and since I practice both constantly, I retain my skills.
I did take Spanish as well for a few few years, but have mostly forgotten it.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Tried using my school Spanish once on holiday. Difference between German school Spanish and Spain Spanish is way too big, it’s like even in Madrid they’re using completely different pronounciation rules.
Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
To be fair, no school is going to adequately prepare you for what the local population speaks. Youre only ever going to learn “proper” conversation, but you need to be run through the actual speakers to learn tone, dialect, and slang.
markz@suppo.fi 2 weeks ago
Huh, I didn’t know americans need to do any foreign language. But 3 or 4 is way too much. I could barely manage 2.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I had three and only gained actual usable proficiency in one (English).
hraegsvelmir@ani.social 2 weeks ago
3 seems pretty reasonable to me, assuming you start the lessons much earlier in schooling than we currently do now. Perhaps not mandatory, but I think requiring 2 and having the option for more is reasonable enough. There are plenty of countries that begin English lessons in what would be elementary schools, then add a second European language in middle school alongside continued English classes, and have the option to do a 3 language for students who are interested/would need them for their academic plans.
Of course, if it was just two years of four different languages, that would be a waste of money, IMO. If kids started doing Spanish in 4th grade and were expected to keep that up through high school graduation, and could add German or Russian or something in middle school, it seems reasonable enough to me. You won’t be cranking out kids fluent in several languages that way, but I would expect you could get much better results than we currently do in the first foreign language, plus give them a decent foundation in the second, should they need it/decide to continue learning after 6 years of classes.
AskewLord@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
You only need to do it for getting into top schools.
theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, for one thing, high school lasts a finite amount of time
Alvaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Limited time and resources means ypu can’t learn everything.
Is there a lot to improve and should certain subjects be switched for others? Sure. But does learning 4 languages to a very basic degree (which you will likely almost never use and therefore forget) important enough to kick off other subjects? I don’t think so.
bitchkat@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
When did one foreign language become required?
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s not.
Justifier@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You really are asking too much here
We need to get math, geography, literature, history, writing, personal finance, and driving training working again first
Want to know what my drivers ed consisted of?
Not cars, no
A signature of consent and having me/my class to view unredacted images and video of a girl who some of the people in that room personally knew from that very highschool who didn’t wear a seatbelt screaming with her face having been peeled off having passed through the windshield, and similar gory aftermath images
Thats the educational bar of competence we’re competing with here at least nearly two decades ago. You think it’s gotten better or worse since then?
ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
English is the defacto global language and I think you’d be surprised how many Americans never leave the US, and how significantly fewer never leave North America.
Learning languages would be great, but there are lots of other things that the US education system has been failing at which are arguably far more important…
homes@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
By the time I graduated high school, I spoke Latin in German fluently. In the last 30 years, I have traveled neither to Germany, nor ancient Rome.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
starlinguk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Na denn, what’s stopping you?
homes@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
Money. Or, more specifically, the lack there of.
XeroxCool@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Setting non-travel jokes aside for aoment because somehow Americans don’t travel but they also get spotted as obvious tourists in their jeans and golf shorts.
Between prior English imperialism and recent American global market share, just about any place with a decent internet connection will have English as a viable communication language. It won’t always be great and you may have to talk to a few different people to find one that speaks enough English. The places I’ve been often have ads in English. Often enough, they’re not even dual language ads.
Now combine that with American exceptionalism and you’ll see Americans don’t see a need to learn anything else. No, they don’t see the irony in demanding the language of England as their one and only language heard in the 'States.
But, in a less cynical take, that country is huge and geographically diverse. There are many Americans that travel. Americans that travel domestically (or even only Can/US/Mex) should not be shamed. Language aside, different regions can have as much diversity as denser countries. Think about your stereotype for a resident of California, then New York, and lastly Texas. That is, after all, because the US is actually 50 states in a trench coat.
lemmy_acct_id_8647@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Statistically Americans can barely read and write English at an adult level…
Tedesche@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In America, by far and away the next most commonly spoken language is Spanish. I could see a requirement making it so schools are made to teach Spanish, but I find it hard to see requiring them to teach any other language. Arguably, this might be better managed on the State level, since certain languages may be more common in different states.
percent@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
Yep. I imagine Spanish is much more useful in Texas than in Alaska
Battle_Masker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
bold of you to assume US high schools have money for even one foreign language
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Most Americans don’t travel so it would be wasted if none of those languages come to them.
rumschlumpel@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
What about all the native Spanish speakers who are already in the US?
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Spanish is the one language other than English that is mandatory in many schools. It was in mine.
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You’re free to learn as many languages as you’d like.
AskewLord@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Nah bro. I would rather blame the school or my parents or whatever, then actually put in any effort in my life!
mech@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
US schools already have a hard time teaching proficiency in English.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
Why would I learn another language when everyone else should just learn american.
fleebleneeble@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
I think it’s because they want to keep us stupid and withdrawn from the world as a whole. The US is kind of a giant prison, but with some shiny things to distract the more well off inmates from caring as much. For those who are poor, they’ll be aware but have hardly a network to figure out how to escape. Language is incredibly important and also allows you to think in different ways depending on what languages you know; gives different perspective. They don’t want us to think.
jeffep@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s more likely that most people wouldn’t pass high school anymore
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Its not like people can even focus with all the chaos that goes on in classrooms… (disruptive kids)
minorkeys@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Because your leaders don’t care if you succeed or die in a hole in the ground.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The general idea of school is to learn how to learn. Most of the core subjects are just the tip of their iceberg.
Take the older software devs who didn’t have computers in school when they went. They technically use almost nothing they actually studied in school. So you don’t really want to requie an overload on any given subject. Schools are even dialing back the math requirements. Like pre-calc. Not everyone needs that. The required algebra is more about problem solving than equations now. Which is good. Let the kids follow thier interests a little more.AA5B@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I can see the argument of more focus on a second language, but more languages usually means not enough for any of them.
My high school required 3 years of a language: I took 5 Spanish courses but was clearly never fluent.
In my kids high school, it was the first class in an immersion program program from early elementary through high school. Many of them were fluent. That should be a goal.
notastatist@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
But how do we get the time for it in europe? We startet english in 3. Grade, french in 6. Grade and after that you could choose between spanish and science in 9. Grade in my school. Other people I know had Latin and old Greek or Dutch or polish.
A lot of people in this thread say its a waste of time to have a second language in the US, what do you learn in all this time you have??
AA5B@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s a waste of time to have a “survey” of languages in an environment where you’re not regularly using them : much better to learn an additional one well. Maybe it’s different in countries with multiple languages and borders where you’ll need multiple languages every day. Yes, a second language is a good idea for any kid.
Here school generally has a fixed curriculum through eighth grade, then high school is more flexible, with minimum requirements set by state and student choice filling it out. For example my state had a requirement for three years of languages to graduate high school: I decided on 5 Spanish classes.
My youngest kid took two years of Italian but then had to switch schools where they did not offer that language, so took a little Spanish. Yes I consider that somewhat a waste because it would have been better for him to learn either of those more. However in everyday life he’s not exposed to either.
HubertManne@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
lol. if that was a requirement I would have never graduated. I even had some requirements in college. me and a buddy exchanging transcripts as we got close to garduating. My buddy. “You know, you actually get pretty good grades” (ok I don’t know why he acted as if its a surprise. I think he meant it more of complimentary way than it came out) “oh. except in spanish.”
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
This topic comes up so often here…
I barely even remember much of anything taught in 2 years of spanish classes in middle school…
Now try 4 languages…
I never even have a situation where I need Spanish… and its the most popular language here behind English… imagine how quick French, German would atrophy… literally never met a french or german speaker irl…
I’m a native Mandarin speaker and since arriving in the US, I’ve only spoken it like to a total of 5 people maybe(?) (Mandarin not spoken at home, it’s Cantonese instead) Like I rarely need it…
How many Americans (except for Chinese Americans visiting relatives maybe) would actually need to visit China?
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Hahah travel. Funny joke.
In truth, though, a small number of school districts do do immersive bilingual K-12 education. That means the full curriculum is bilingual…around here usually English/Spanish. Not just one class. Usually in tightly integrated (read: mixed-race) communities.
TheV2@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I hope you don’t mind a non-US-American comment on this one. I see this kind of statement/question quite often and I have a few things to say about it:
- It is not common to learn 3-4 foreign languages at school
It’s not rare to find people who speak more than 3 languages around the world. However in most countries schools just cover the languages you are expected to know in your country/region and the most common lingua franca(e). You guys simply need less languages in your daily business. If anything, there should be a bigger emphasis on Spanish in your education, at least in some states.
- School education isn’t enough to properly learn even one language
The truly foreign languages we learn at school do not stick with most of us. On the one hand, we had to pick a language that we may have not been interested in. On the other hand, you need to spend much more time beyond and after school to get beyond the basics for real life communication - even if the common reference level says otherwise. Even English or the respective lingua franca for the given region is mostly learned from real day-to-day communication. The school lessons serve more or less as a frame.
- An overlooked advantage of learning a foreign language is to understand how little we understand
Sure, learning a foreign language is naturally useful for traveling, job prospects and educational value. But when you rewire/extend your brain a language beyond some basics for traveling, you have a bigger understanding how different languages can be, how much gets lost in translation and how little you understand of the world.
I’m not sure, if Spanish in the USA can be as important as e.g. English in many European countries (as an outsider I get the impression that it should be even more important :D), but I think treating it that way would be a much bigger benefit for the entire USA. Oh and 4) most bilingual Europeans who are yapping about dumb Americans on the internet have no idea how ignorant they are themselves. Greetings from a child of immigrants from Germany! <3
disregardable@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
most Americans don’t need any foreign language to pass high school.
Ryanmiller70@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Yeah my high school said colleges would like for you to take a foreign language class, but it’s not required to graduate from here. Some students did think it was required to graduate and a couple I talked to at the time were surprised to learn I didn’t take any and still graduated.
nocturne@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
At my high school you needed 2 communication credits, foreign languages counted, so did drama, journalism, year book, cheer squad (this always puzzled me as it was not even a class), and others I am sure I am forgetting as it was 30ish years ago.
disregardable@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
11 states have foreign language requirements, but really we shouldn’t even count them. A single 20-30 minute class per day is not going to achieve any proficiency in a foreign language. The only way for an American to actually achieve foreign language proficiency is to go to a 1/2 and 1/2 school.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
And most don’t leave the country for vacations either
disregardable@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
People do go to the Caribbean and Mexico, because they are within close travel distance. Most Americans could not afford a transatlantic vacation. You can take your whole family to Florida for a week just on the cost you’d spend on airfare going to Europe. It’s like $1000 per person per flight, 12 hour+ flight, 8+ hour time difference. A $10,000+ vacation is really not in the average American’s budget.