Submitted 5 months ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Projection?
I had a car that didn’t like when the weather was cold and damp. It wasn’t too happy about being parked on a slope, either.
Did the car actually have human emotions? No, of course not, but as a human it was both easy and natural to frame and process it that way.
Instead of it simply being “God made made in his own image”, the truth is probably that there’s more than a little of “man made God in his own image” too.
Yeah, all gods have been made by man.
I’m not sure if the metaphor of you anthropomorphizing an inanimate object is the best one to criticize the projection of one’s own desires and wills onto a fantasy deity. For one thing, your car actually exists, even if its emotions do not.
I’m not sure if the metaphor of you anthropomorphizing an inanimate object is the best one to criticize the projection of one’s own desires and wills onto a fantasy deity.
I’m not criticising.
People are welcome to follow a religion if they want to.
I know that I can no more disprove the existence of a god than prove the existence of one. I know that anybody doing something bad in the name of a god is either lying or being coerced.
“There is no god but man.” - Aleister Crowley
God didn’t design us in his image, we designed him in ours.
Because it’s all made up. It’s foolish to expect any of it to make sense or be consistent.
First prove that this god even exists, then maybe we can have a discussion about it’s properties.
The answer to this is going to differ heavily from religion to religion. You’ve already been inundated with the atheist and agnostic response. Christian theology could give you a few different answers.
The Bible could been seen as man’s interpretation of God, therefore God’s will is placed in terms we understand: emotions. Calling God jealous, angry, sorrowful, or joyful is a lot easier than asking you to understand a four-dimensional physical space. The latter is beyond your perception, much like understanding the “feelings” God exhibits, so it is simplified to terms you can understand.
The second potential answer would be: why wouldn’t he/she be? You’ve made the assumption that emotions are bad or wrong, but if you throw out that assumption, there’s nothing wrong with an emotional God. Maybe being “beyond that” is in fact a mistake? If he/she made us in his/her image, then of course we are given emotions similiar to God. Ultimately, who are you or I to judge whether such feelings are good or bad, or make a being imperfect?
Admittedly, I am deeply agnostic myself, because I ultimately don’t buy any of the explinations I’ve provided here. But I’ve taken time and energy to understand Western theology, rather than dismiss it out of hand, and these are the explinations I suspect you are likliest to find.
What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Trying to understand theology is a waste of time because it’s all made up.
Theology is not a belief in God. It is a study of the belief in God, the connection between humankind and the possibility of God, and the philosophies grounded in religious doctrine. Saying that trying to understand theology is a waste of time is the same as saying that trying to understand any social science is a waste of time.
You may dismiss the beliefs as “all made up”, but their impact on our world is very real. Is studying politics a waste of time because it’s “all made up”? Or are the arbitrary thoughts and feelings on how the world should be run suddenly more important because we’ve removed a belief that you personally disagree with?
Trying to understand theology is a waste of time because it’s all made up.
Made up, sure, but still very useful to understand because so many people believe it.
Trying to understand fictional media is a waste of time because it’s all made up.
Trying to understand linguistics is a waste of time because it’s all made up.
Trying to understand the economy is a waste of time because it’s all made up.
Hey wait this sounds like anti-intellectualism
Ehh, I’m gonna push back and say that, as a lifelong atheist, I have greatly enjoyed reading books on Jesus and the early church. But I’m also a history nerd, so I enjoy stuff from other times already.
Religion is still dumb and makes people hate each other but the books are entertaining regardless.
All religion can be dismissed out of hand. There has been literally no evidence for the supernatural ever at any time that can be verified objectively.
Why are people like you continuing to pretend the supernatural has any bearing on reality? Astounding.
Your ignorance on the topic of religion is what is astounding here. Reducing religion to “the supernatural” is to ignore centuries of philosophy and social theory.
While widely practiced religion, particularly in the Western world, has been disgustingly reduced to nothing more than a series of corporate institutions vying for social and financial power, this does not represent “religion” as a field.
People seek an understanding of the universe, and an answer to all the existential questions they have. Many people suffer existential dread as a result of their powerlessness in the face of the unknown. Seeking answers through religion is one way to quell such concerns and fears. Whether or not you agree with it, it has provided comfort to millions of people who suffer very natural, human fears.
People also want to know what it means to be “good” and live a “good life.” Religion has provided a number of philosophical frameworks in which to seek such answers. If you wish to dismiss all religion out of hand, you’re fundamentally discarding much of the basis for modern philosophy as well. You’re basically left with consequentialism, which has a number of serious pitfalls.
Its just a conversation bro, you can chill out
Assuming we’re discussing the Abrahamic God, He used to be much smaller in scope; in fact, He was the ancient Jewish War God, back when they had a full polytheistic pantheon. So if we’re going back to the original myths, He didn’t really create humans, nor was He all-powerful or all-seeing, or ‘above-it-all’ in general.
(This is back in the days when Gods were more seen as local clan/town sponsors, like how Athena is the patron God of Athens. He was just a tribal patron god, one they prayed to in order to be safe and successful in war.)
Also, back then Gods in general were written as being much closer to humans, in term of emotions and motivations—again, Greek mythology gives a good showing of this, but you can read a lot of ancient myths and see it in play.
As Jehovah became more and more popular (due to all the wars in the region), He started to absorb many of the myths and abilities of the rest of the pantheon, which is why He seems kind of schizophrenic in the older stories. YHWH was actually the head of the pantheon, and as Jehovah supplanted Him as the ancient proto-Jewish tribes moved towards monotheism, the two Gods ended up essentially being merged with each other.
Still, back then, while Gods were seen as powerful, they were still somewhat seen as limited and fallible. In fact even today there is a strong Jewish tradition of questioning God (albeit politely and a bit indirectly so as not to get turned into salt or whatever).
But, as Judaism grew, and split off into Christianity and Islam, God’s followers began tack on more and more powers and abilities to make Him sound cooler (and increase the power of the Church). So that’s where the ‘all-seeing’ and ‘all-powerful’ Great-God-of-Everything business comes from, really.
TL;DR ‘God wasn’t all-powerful and was ‘written’ to have emotions much closer to humans when those creation myths were first being told.
Do you have any links to recommend to check out for further reading/watching? Or what search terms should help me find this the best? Ty :u
I’ve got one that would likely be relevant: The Early History of God – Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
Christian theologians believe in the impassibility of God, which means that God does not have emotions as humans do. Then biblical texts where emotions are attributed to God are explained as anthropomorphism - God using human language to communicate his nature and actions.
How the hell do they explain his “love” then? Seems like they create more problems than they fix with this crap.
“Love” in the scriptures is typically a verb, e.g., “God so loved the world…” It describes an action that God does, not a feeling. God’s love is his acting in a loving way towards undeserving people.
Exactly, that’s a perfectly theologian explanation, it sounds good, but doesn’t stand the least bit of scrutiny.
Already the creation story on the first pages says god created light and saw the light is good. How is it good without subjective emotion?
How exactly are gods emotions supposed to be different. Does good mean something different to god?
Religion is worthless bullshit.
This is the answer or similar enough I got when I was Catholic
Because humans create their gods in their own image. Not the other way around. Your god becomes a reflection of what you already tend to believe because it exists solely as a justification for believing it.
If you’re part of a society that believes that all outsiders are bad. You’re going to invent your god that proclaims outsiders to be bad. If you’re part of a group that has no sense of monogamy, you’re going to create a god that proclaims “polygamy is good”!
Gods are the invented paragons of whatever society created them.
With literally hundreds of Gods I think you’re right.
It’s all made up by humans
Is there proof of a god like at all? Who tf is this mf. Also god caused your misfortune so asking him to help is counterproductive
You can make the characters do whatever you want when you’re writing fiction.
They didn’t have science back then so they were even stupider than today.
The best answer. It really is that simple LOL.
The solution to that question is easy. Your premise is faulty; there is no such thing as a god or gods. They’re man made ideas and there is literally zero evidence to support any god exists. There is loads and loads of evidence that each and every god has been created by humans.
If there is such a thing as a god anyway, it is beyond what can ever measured and it also never interferes with human life or any physical process. In that case, it may as well not exist as it literally doesn’t do anything, making the question moot.
This is the real answer. Youre aaking why dlebnles can’t fly. Well one reason is they don’t exist.
… What are dlebnes?
He wanted a good plot arc leading up to robots not just starting with robots right off the rip
Man saw his ego and named it God.
Which God? There are so many to choose from.
I asked a Christian friend of mine how an all knowing god could be jealous or angry if they were all knowing and the actions of the people they were angry/jealous at were part of his plan.
I never got an answer other than ‘mysterious ways’
In the Bible he is beyond human emotions. Even though he is portrayed as having human emotions in many instances such as in the garden of Eden or Job.
It’s a contradiction of course as the Bible is caulk full of them.
Remember the Bible was written by humans who cannot fathom the mind of such a character as God. At least in the Bible. So they imbue him with the emotions they feel themselves not knowing any better and hoping the illiterate masses will simply believe the scripture wholesale. Which they did and do.
God literally says that he is a jealous god in The Bible. Hardly beyond emotion!
Giving a serious answer with serious consideration that follows serious rules, is impossible with religion, as all the rules are made up, there’s no consistency, and they’re all silly.
Maybe we’re endowed with Godly emotions.
The answer differs depending on which religion/sect/philosophy you adhere to, but God is usually attributed some sort of emotion, or at least a will, because without it the belief in God can’t serve a societal use.
Say you assume a God without emotions. From this it results that nothing we may do or fail to do would impact them, so there are no sins, no divine laws, prayers and rites are useless… So your belief can’t be a religion; nor can it be used to control people. There’s no physical use to preaching belief in God, and not much of a metaphysical need either since God doesn’t care whether you believe in them. “God” becomes a concept like the laws of physics, there’s not even much meaning in considering it as a being. There’s little difference between an emotionless God and no God at all. So all religions will personify God to some extent.
From this it results that nothing we may do or fail to do would impact them, so there are no sins, no divine laws, prayers and rites are useless…
That’s not entirely true. You’re describing what is effectively Calvinism (also, Hinduism/Buddhism) wherein you are born into a particular state of grace (or absence of it) and you just have to play the hand you’re dealt because its “part of the plan”. If you are aware of God, that’s a kind of blessing in its own right. But its like being aware of a political head of state or a famous historical figure. Knowing they exist can give you insight into how to live your life, but they don’t fundamentally know or care that you exist and you don’t impact their grandeur in any meaningful way.
There’s little difference between an emotionless God and no God at all.
There’s a huge difference, in the same way there’s a difference between a Law of Physics and No Law.
Understanding physics allows me to live relatively safely compared to someone who is totally unfamiliar with how conductivity or gravity or momentum works. Understanding spirituality will (presumably) serve the same effect. Spiritual enlightenment affords you a way of avoiding certain hazards, like not holding a big metal rod above you in a storm or leaping into the ocean without a buoy. Ritual and prayer becomes like a car’s safety belt and air bags, cushioning you from the psychic trauma of daily life and protecting you from malicious spiritual entities.
There’s also a host of spiritual intermediaries in the more esoteric faiths. Catholicism has its saints and angels, while Islam and Judaism has the prophets. Animist religions have spirits of the land and the animals. Pagan faiths have their pantheons and demigods. And they’ve all got their terrestrial spiritual adversaries - demons, heretics, the acolytes of rival deities, etc.
Why am I praying to ward off evil spirits if there are none? Why am I wearing these vestments and holy symbols to insulate me against “evil” radiation or bad juju? Why am I going on these crusades if I don’t think capturing the Holy Land has any benefit for my nation or clan?
You don’t have to believe in a “Personal Jesus” to believe in the consequences of a God or a Godly World. Sometimes its just Metaphysical Capture the Flag.
Calvinism still has a notion of divine will, even if there’s no divine judgement. Maybe the notion of “will” can be dissociated from the notion of “feeling”, but that’d be a debate in itself, I personally tend to think that it can’t: Awareness can only indicate what is, not what should be.
As for all the religions with an intermediate between God and men, either they represent God’s will… In which case, God does have a will; either they have their own will. And this just displaces the question, because if God has no will but his angels do, then the angels are effectively the Gods: They’re the ones whose favour prayers are supposed to get.
Also, when I mention the “societal use” of a religion, what I mean isn’t how the religion is useful to the believer, but how it makes the believer useful to the state and/or clergy. My point was that religion with a personalized God who directly judge human actions tend to dominate because they’re most useful as tools to influence people’s actions.
Well you kind of have the thing reversed.
All gods are created by man in mans image. And gods are generally exactly as selfish childish (narcissistic) and emotional as a 4 year old, because that’s the mentality of the people with the delusions that created the gods in the first place. And then the people who think they know what god is and want.
I’m assuming you’re looking for a basic answer from Christianity. In that case, the TL;DR is that Humans are created in God’s image. We’re endowed with God’s emotions, not the other way around, and emotions aren’t necessarily bad, they’re just corrupted in us by sin.
God experiences all kinds of emotions, he is “jealous” for us, he’s also depicted as sad or angry in many cases. Even Jesus, a “perfect man without sin” feels anger and flips the tables of a synagogue when he sees people turning that religious practice into a corrupt business.
So a religious answer to “shouldn’t God be beyond human emotions?” would be that emotions aren’t inherently bad. We should be angered by injustice, for example. Emotions can be bad, if you let them control you and fly into a rage for selfish reasons, for example, but they don’t have to be bad.
I think killing everyone on the planet would be considered bad or ungodly. Have you seen what God did to Job? God pretty fucked up.
Politely, no one asked? OP asked a direct question, I’m doing my best to answer it, and you’re… dunking on me about a point nobody was talking about?
At best, this is an odd non-sequitur. At worst, it’s toxic behaviour meant to shut down any discussion about a topic you personally dislike.
Most importantly is to ask why is he subject to time? Our only concept of existing or being alive is tied to time: thought is a change of state, and change is defined by a progression of time. But if God is everything, why is he subject to time? What’s “outside” time?
Why are we satisfied with the idea that God made man intelligent in his image, while being all-knowing, but not this? Isn’t this the same thing? God could have made man with emotions in his image, while being in no way limited to those emotions himself
(Insert misogynistic crack about an all-emotional God being proof God is a woman)
Whipping out my clover and putting on my best Irish Accent to explain the Holy Trinity
Perfection is a malleable thing. To Christians humans are made in gods image, including emotions. In the minds of people they only think of the emotions that are reflected by god as the positive ones; like caring, empathy, love, ect. But if you take into account that god made everything it is reasonable to say that god gave us the negative emotions as well, since Satan (gods creation) harbored these feelings when it made Adam and eve sin in the garden of eden. Even if god only has positive emotion it does have emotion.
Because main evolved advantageous uses for emotion. We cry, and no longer have to communicate with words that something is wrong. It is advantageous to us to be able to communicate with emotions in more than a vocal manner. Things make more sense when we consider the real reasons they came into being. “We” have probably had these emotions for far longer than we could be considered humans.
Human is created in God’s image. Therefore human emotions are similar to God’s emotions.
sxan@midwest.social 5 months ago
This is “no stupid questions,” but asking rational questions about religion is a waste of time. In most religions, the answer ultimately “you are too stupid to understand the great plan of god.”
You can debate interpretation of religious texts, or how best to follow the laws religions set down; but questioning articles of faith is fruitless.
Christianity is especially full of self-contradictions and paradoxes: can God create a rock so big he can’t lift it? You can spend a lifetime poking holes in The Bible, and you will never get a rational, satisfactory answer that isn’t based on a version of “you are too stupid/not meant to know.”
Many religions are less paradoxical, but the monotheistic ones are mostly just an unbelievable shit-show, unless you’re especially susceptible to self-delusion.
No apologies to Christians: your religion is a fucking mess. You have to be particularly dumb to read the old and new testaments and come away thinking those are the same God. That the loving, caring one who sacrificed his son for people is the same one who allowed Satan to torture his most faithful worshipper on a bet.
Buddhism and most pagan religions make more sense. Buddhism in particular lacks most of the dependency on mysticism and unprovable articles of faith, and is almost more a philosophy than a religion. Buddhists, I can respect. But Christianity is all sorts of dumb.
Actually, taken by itself, the new testament is mostly OK; if you follow only Christ’s teachings, and ignore the peyote trips of post-crucifixion books, like, Revelations, it’s a solid basis for a society of decent people. But Christ was a liberal socialist, which is why most organized Christianity leans so heavily on the old testament and ignores Christ’s teachings of acceptance, communism, and forgiveness.
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Nice … now I need to learn more about Buddhism and use an ice pick to remove all the information I have about the Christian Bible.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 4 months ago
Buddhism as it originally was, was more of a philosophy and way of life.
However, as will all organized religion, Buddhism has morphed in Tibet (free Tibet), India, and other places into mysticism with gods, recurring semi-saviors through “reincarnation”, and classist systems and hierarchies. Sad, really. Humans mess everything up for personal gain and control.
folkrav@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Do you legitimately think that the same people who get into organized religion, that buy into thought systems that tell them how things are supposed to be and how they should feel about stuff, as a general rule have read their own source material that meticulously?
sxan@midwest.social 4 months ago
Yes. Some do. I was raised by a fundamentalist; they read the Bible constantly. Like, book clubs, a couple, three times a week, reading and discussing different parts of the Bible.
By the time I left that home (went to live with mom at 14), I’d read the thing myself four times all the way through, and various sections of it far more often. When dad visits, I hear audio book versions of it playing in the night as they’re getting ready for bed. Self-indoctrination.
IME, they’re not all that unusual in their church.
scarabic@lemmy.world 5 months ago
You don’t have to read it meticulously to see the contrast he’s taking about.
But few actually read it at all. They say they do, but their reading consists of looking up verse references they saw on bumper stickers, leafing through the first pages of Genesis, and occasionally reading a random page only to say to themselves, so silently that they are not actually conscious of it: “hm well I don’t know what all that old timey language means but I’m going to go see what’s in the fridge now.”