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Submitted 3 months ago by SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world to [deleted]
Comments
AnxiousOtter@lemmy.world 3 months ago
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
feeding a cat a diet that is biologically incapable of meeting a cat’s dietary needs
We’ve been putting supplemental taurine in cat kibble for decades.
parrhesia@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Just because there is supplemental taurine in cat kibble doesn’t mean that’s the only thing they need from their diet. Just get a different pet jfc
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 3 months ago
I just find it wild that vegans can simultaneously come to the conclusion that all forms of animal farming is unethical but still accept that keeping pets is ethical. My wife grew up on a milk goat farm, every single goat had a name (and they had hundreds of goats), and the goats generally lived lives as good as the average pet. They’d run around and play, get attention from the people who lived and worked there, and every once in a while escape the pens just to prove that they can (they’d literally be standing around the yard waiting for their escapades to be discovered)
x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Almost all vegan pet owners ADOPT their pets.
Compared to Franky who pays a breeder so he can gift a cat like it’s a fucking toy.
BluesF@lemmy.world 3 months ago
There are many different vegans with many different viewpoints. I am not vegan, but I come pretty close - I do still consume a limited amount of dairy, but otherwise I don’t buy animal products. This is for the reasons you say - I don’t want to support factory farming. I also have a limited amount of time in my life for investigating everything I eat, however - I don’t honestly have the stamina to check every egg-containing product to see if it used battery eggs or not. I really don’t have the time to check if the “free range” eggs I’m buying are really free range or if they have sneaked around the regulations and it’s battery farming in disguise. It’s just easier not to buy any eggs.
I will accept eggs from people I know who keep chickens - no problem from me there. I think that humans having relationships with domestic animals is fine, generally we both benefit - the animals because they are protected from predators, they get fed, etc, and us because we gets eggs.
Some vegans would not agree with me. Some vegans don’t believe humans should keep any animals, including pets. I don’t believe there’s an issue with keeping some pets though. Domesticated animals wouldn’t even exist without us… Like it or not their “natural” habitat is living with humans. You couldn’t release all the dogs and expect that to be better for us or them.
Objection@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Honestly at that point I think it’s lower effort to just go vegan. You’re already avoiding meat in every situation where you can’t investigate the supply chain, so no meat at restaurants, fast food, other friend’s houses, etc. I guess if you really crave the taste of meat or something or if you live on a farm already I could see a case for it. For me, the case of going to the grocery and making a meal at home was always the easiest case to have a vegan diet (and avoiding all the extra prep and cleanup from preparing meat were nice perks), the parts that were actual hurdles were the convenience of fast food and not wanting to assert myself in group meals.
Personally, I figure that the tiny sliver of meat that’s produced ethically can go to the tiny sliver of people with weird dietary restrictions, and to cats, I guess. We still need to see a massive reduction in meat consumption if we want to address the abuse that’s rampant in the vast majority of meat production.
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 3 months ago
She grew up on on a milk goat farm but never learned that goats don’t give milk from the goodness of their heart?
x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Biologically incapable is a lie. Vegan pet food is fortified with all the nutrients they might need.
Machinist@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Unashamed omnivore, fisher, and hunter here. Working on our play farm so we can source all of our meat ethically in the future. Taking active steps to prevent the suffering of animals we consume. Don’t have an ethical or moral problem with killing animals to eat them. Prefer to do it myself so that I know that I have done my best to minimize the suffering of the critters I kill.
I’ve been told I’m a raper and abuser.
fite me
Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Much better than sourcing animal products from the supermarker. Still worse than being vegan
4f14_5d4_6s2@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They might be responsible for many less deaths than a vegan, though.
Some food for thought: carnivoreisvegan.com/carnivore-diet-is-vegan/
x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
prevent the suffering of animals we consume
That doesn’t compute buddy
deaf_fish@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Fellow unashamed omnivore. The vegans have the moral high ground. I hope one day to become one. No need to shame or be ashamed of eating meat though. Changes to society take a while, shaming and blaming rarely improve the situation. It often makes things worse.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’ve been told I’m a raper and abuser.
Factory farming is absolutely industrial scale rape and abuse. The more traditional hunter-gatherer mode of existence is at least approaching “natural” levels of cruelty, but it also takes immense volumes of vacant real estate.
It’s cool that you’ve found a way to do a little traditional animal husbandry, rather than procuring meat from the holocaust mills run by some soulless corporate horror show. But its not what I’d call economical. At least, not for anyone who commutes downtown from an apartment block.
I think there’s a kind of ethical middle-ground for folks who can keep a deep freeze full of meat from a cow that gets butchered every couple of months. Then you’re at least mitigating the enormous waste in industrial agriculture and you can talk about animals living a relatively dignified life in a pasture rather than walled up in a cattle concentration camp. But that would mean no pink slime on demand, which violates man’s constitutional right to eat burger.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I bet your carbon footprint is still shit. You got plans to go solar to offset that?
Drewelite@lemmynsfw.com 3 months ago
I think your mentality is great. I’ve heard people say, “Sure I’ll eat a burger, but what kind of psychopath wants to kill an animal themselves?”
I don’t know, what kind of a psychopath pays an industry to do it for them so they don’t have to feel bad about it? Look, I get it, I don’t hunt. But I respect the people who respectfully end the animal’s life themselves. Only they can really understand the cost. We just throw away some old chicken we forgot to cook while passing judgment on who we paid to get it for us and how they did it.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
what kind of psychopath wants to kill an animal themselves?
The mental health issues among abattoir workers is way above the national average. It takes a toll.
I don’t know, what kind of a psychopath pays an industry to do it for them
Out of sight, out of mind. We have professional wet workers for a reason. If everyone had to do this shit themselves, much of it wouldn’t get done. Hell, I still stay up at night thinking about my elderly dog being put to sleep in front of me at the vet’s. If I’d had to push that syringe down myself, I’d have probably sawed my own hand off by now, purely out of shame.
Machinist@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Exactly.
I enjoy hunting but I don’t glory in the killing. There is always a part of me that is sad when I kill. Even killing a rat or butchering a fish gives me a twinge. I don’t feel bad when I kill a mosquito, but do feel bad when I kill a black widow.
If I raise an animal to eat it, it will be properly cared for and have a good life and as painless a passing as I can make it.
When I take a picture of something I killed, I make sure blood or injuries are not visible. That is disrespectful to that life I took.
I recently killed a groundhog because it was being a varmint and digging up the foundation of my garage and chicken coop.
I tried to clean it so we could eat it, but must have hit the glands. The smell of the carcass was almost chemical it was so strong. They’re supposed to be good, but I’d never had to kill one. Harder to skin than a squirrel and they have super tough hide.
I had to toss it and it bothered me. Even though it was being a varmint: to me it is ethical to kill a varmint and not eat it. However, you should make use of that life if you can.
I killed a coon once as a kid and had to eat it after it was smoked. Not good. Never killed an animal again that I wasn’t going to eat except for varmints.
Varmints are animals out of balance. Rats and roaches are almost always varmints. Spiders rarely are. Overpopulated deer are often varmints. A groundhog out in the woods is just a critter, a groundhog digging out my foundation is a varmint. Cats are varmints when they are feral and killing wild birds, especially ground nesting birds.
Critters are animals in balance or domesticated.
Varmints are also almost always a species of least concern.
The environment would be in a much better place if people were more connected to their food.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 3 months ago
I can do two things, ya know.
SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 3 months ago
dodgy_bagel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Cats are bad, generally.
They’re killing machines that have a big impact on local wildlife.
A vegan that keeps cats isn’t exactly approaching the situation from a purely vegan-based mentality.
Sarmyth@lemmy.world 3 months ago
As a person with 3 cats, I get what you’re saying. You’re getting down voted, but we all know cats can devistate local wild life populations.
Rescuing them and making them indoor cats is the responsible thing to do, but I don’t think any vegans would argue with that.
I think its after those establishing facts that the discussion is taking place.
I personally am not a fan of any breeding programs when there are so many cats and dogs available to rescue, but that’s just me.
dodgy_bagel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
True, ethical adoption is an option.
But then I always ran into the issue with how to feed the cute little monsters, which is what this drama is about.
Honestly, it’s easier to not have a cat. Plus I’m allergic, so…
rekabis@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
A vegan that
keeps catsallows cats outside isn’t exactly approaching the situation from a purely vegan-based mentality.There, FTFY.
Absolutely nothing wrong with cats that are 100% indoors, not only do they have no effect on the wildlife, but their lifespans are something like ⅓ to ½ longer due to the lack of accidents or conflicts.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
their lifespans are something like ⅓ to ½ longer
Outdoor cats have a life expectancy of 2-5 years. Indoor cats routinely hit teenager status and can push past 20 with quality care and a bit of genetic good fortune. Its crazy what a steady diet, low stress, protection from the elements/predators, and even middling modern veterinary health care can accomplish.
Now, imagine what this change in condition can do for homeless people.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They’re killing machines that have a big impact on local wildlife.
Saying this to my friends as I drive in my 2 ton steel box full of liquid dinosaurs through the cemented remains of an old growth forest on the way to my job at the bitcoin mill.
dodgy_bagel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
! We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually. Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality. Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. !<
Unless, of course, you’re saying that we shouldn’t stop one bad thing because we do other bad things.
We should rethink our attachments to miniature tigers.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
But you need a job, you don’t need a pet. (Not counting service animals)
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world 3 months ago
That is, of course, only a problem with outdoor cats and feral populations. Indoor cats are fine. Personally I keep my cat indoors for a bunch of reasons, but I also think that reasonable human beings can feel otherwise. I’ve noticed that there are a lot of people online who have decided that not only is keeping an outdoor cat bad, it’s a form of animal abuse. And therefore they not only berate people who allow their cat outside, they also encourage people who stumble upon outdoor cats to take possession of them since they’re being abused. This is a pretty extremist position that probably doesn’t reflect the views of most cat owners, but it tends to get magnified in cat communities that rely on upvotes, since upvotes encourage echo chambers.
There’s a metaphor here.
Noodle07@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Allowing cats outside is bird and mice abuse for sure
exu@feditown.com 3 months ago
But cat
glitchdx@lemmy.world 3 months ago
nah, i just like making fun of and annoying vegans. They call me slurs that are metal as fuck like “carnist” and “bloodmouth”, i love it.
stoly@lemmy.world 3 months ago
You’re confusing the reactionaries with those who live by a philosophy.
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I would say it’s the reactionaries confusing everyone
Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Those who just live by a philosophy might browse there for recipe ideas and that’s about it.
Hackerman_uwu@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s your own fault for meatsplaining to them.
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Here’s another one for you speciesist
glitchdx@lemmy.world 3 months ago
eh, it’s alright. Not as punchy as I’d like.
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 months ago
It’s a mouthful (heh)
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 3 months ago
Are these vegans forcing cats vegetarian diets in the room with us?
B312@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They are tho
oatscoop@midwest.social 3 months ago
No, they’re in c/vegan
hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
thank god, I don’t want to be anywhere near them
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
So y’all are feeding your cats a natural diet of small game?
Which animal in cat food would they ever eat in real life? Which cat is going to go find synthetic taurine to eat? What about the herd of cats that exclusively eats the diseased and rotted meat that isnt fit for humans?
If you are looking for someone to blame for vegan cat food then look at the quality of commercial cat food.
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 3 months ago
Which animal in cat food would they ever eat in real life?
Most of the cat foods I’ve looked at are primarily poultry which cats famously eat a ton of. Sure your average feral cat might not be taking down turkeys, but I honestly don’t find it at all hard to believe that it happens from time to time that a feral cat is eating some turkey, whether its roadkill or catching a young turklet itself
Riccosuave@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I don’t have any skin in the game as I am allergic to both cats and vegans.
However, I think this is kind of interesting because it is going to be one of the first major pieces of Lemmy Lore that a large amount of the userbase is aware of.
In a weird way it means we are forming the bonds of a real community, and even though this is clearly an antagonistic topic it is going to be a lasting piece of history that for better or worse defines our culture.
owsei@programming.dev 3 months ago
this and the three days without shitting post
bunkyprewster@startrek.website 3 months ago
And the beans?
JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 months ago
This one never got traction but it was a personal favorite: lemm.ee/comment/1808516
This was in response to someone considering getting a donkey.
I grew up on farm & we had two donkeys, Honeybun & Buttercup. Buttercup was older & eventually passed away, leaving Honeybun solo amongst the chickens, cows & horses.
Honeybun became ornery as all get out, just mean as hell. He’d started to bite anything close enough to be bitten. These weren’t little nips for attention; he’d draw blood given chance.
It got bad enough my grandfather carried a potato soaked in hot sauce to deter the donkey from biting. Grandpa would try to shove the potato into the donkey’s mouth when Honeybun went in to bite.
I know some donkeys get along well with horses. Honeybun did not. He bit those horses, went after chickens that wandered into his area, & likely would’ve done the same to cows if we’d let him.
I don’t have any specific advice for you, but I do believe donkeys get lonely & need some measure of companionship.
VolumetricShitCompressor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
and jeans and the weird wizard spells
VolumetricShitCompressor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
it is going to be one of the first major pieces of Lemmy Lore
Yeah that’s what I wanted to comment as well. I love that Lemmy now starts to get it’s own inside jokes and stuff. Dunking on overzealous vegans is just the cherry on top lmao
I will never forget omega fart in r/leagueoflegends, truly magical moment.
BigBenis@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Who knew that so many Lemmy users were experts in the science of dietary nutrition?
TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Carnivore, herbivore, omnivore, ITT apparently a lemmy user invention. You can feed your cat a “vegan diet”, you will just have to feed them a god level amount of artificial supplements like taurine, arachidonic acid, EPA and DHA omega 3, vitamin A, etc. It will also increase their risk of urinary tract disease due to alkaline. But I’m just pulling these terms out of my ass, since I’m a lemmy user.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s fun to find people who are trying to make ethical personal life choices and start screaming “Murderer! How could you do that to your pets?! Are you stupid? Are you brainwashed by the vegan lies?! Your beloved animal friend is going to DIE IN SCREAMING AGONY!”
JoShmoe@ani.social 3 months ago
Random user: Free Gaza!
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Free? I’ll take two
chetradley@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Why wouldn’t you fight against animal cruelty?
tomi000@lemmy.world 3 months ago
People are so quick to call it animal cruelty. Did any of you ask a vet if it was harmful to the animal? I didnt coz I dont even have a cat but it seems some vegans did and were reassured that it is alright. Thats because they care about their pet and want to ensure its health while possibly aligning it with their lifestyles, unlike others that just feed them the cheapest crap they can find.
Im not saying its okay to just feed your pet veggies, but just because it doesnt seem ‘natural’ doesnt automatically mean it is bad. This is ‘being gay is unnatural’ all over again.
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 3 months ago
People are so quick to call it animal cruelty. Did any of you ask a vet if it was harmful to the animal?
I have a friend who’s a vet in a trendy community and has seen multiple instances of cats with health issues (some permanent) directly stemming from attempting a vegan diet so his blanket advise is “don’t even try it”
manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
ITT: people with big hurt feewiingssss
its okay babies, you eating meat doesnt hurt anyone! Youve never done everything wrong! Its no worse than how most of us innately benefit from imperialism, we’re so far removed! Phew!
lol, we’re all always so quick to start crying about hoe annoying and rude veeeegans are. We could all consume less animal products. Its ultimately not an issue of personal responsibility, its systemic and engrained in our society.
getting all pissy because someones telling you the truth and it makes you uncomfortable is embarrassing, I’ve been there. I still eat meat more regularly than I’d like to. I dont need to justify it, I think its bad that I do, I’m doing my best over here.
Obligate carnivore! I dont give my cats water! Only meeeeeat, rahhhh I’m a big man-or-similar!
inB4, hurt feeling downvotes 😳
Beaver@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Someone is creating a strawman argument.
Read the scientific evidence for yourself.
Kaboom@reddthat.com 3 months ago
Im a simple man. I see a vegan, I hate vegans. Simple as
MissJinx@lemmy.world 3 months ago
live by the sword die by tbe sword
MerchantsOfMisery@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
I’ve heard some pretty weird ass views from vegans about the diet of Indigenous people who’ve traditionally relied on hunting and trapped.
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world 3 months ago
This whole controversy has been a real boon to my blocklist.
Lemjukes@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Did I miss something recent?
beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
How can vegans even justify having pets? It’s not okay to milk a cow but it is to keep a cat? Indoor cats are deprived of basically all of their normal cat activities. They can’t range or roam, they can’t socialize with other cats, they are denied their natural predator instincts. As much as I love my kitties, like keeping a predator as a pet is basically kind of a dick move. I don’t care how good you treat your slaves, they’re still slaves.
If vegans can keep cats, they can eat cheese if the cow is well cared for or eggs if the farmer isn’t a dick to the chickens.
Nunar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s all about consent.
stoly@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I hadn’t seen this angle, awesome. They really is some pretty great hypocrisy here.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Dear Christ. Every thread on this turns into a shit show. Locking.
x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Lets call it moralwashing.
Hypocrites.
cm0002@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Well I mean the loud/extremist vegan minority are quick to call meat eaters as abusers (rapist enablers even because we’ll drink milk a rapist (farmer) got from a cow) just for eating meat, even though most of us are far removed from the entire process.
But here they are, making a direct immoral action to force their chosen diet on another being who in all likelihood would NOT choose themselves. And that’s on top of the fact they should probably not have a pet at all based on their strict interpretation of vegan.
Nah, they deserve the call out.
This entire drama has had me thinking about that one talk show clip that has a vegan guest and was talking about how their dog “Is totally vegan now and won’t even choose meat if it’s in front of her”. When the hosts tested the dog by bringing out a vegan dish and a meat dish, the dog devoured the meat dish lmao
galanthus@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Why do you think direct immoral actions are worse than indirect immoral actions? I don’t buy that. Hell, you are even saying that you are absolved of responsibility for animal abuse completely just because you are paying someone to do it, and not doing it personally. Most people just deny animal abuse happens at all, or come up with ridiculous excuses for it, but you admit it is immoral, but shift your blame on others along with the responsibility for murdering them so that you can eat them.
This is like saying "x has hired hitmen to killed seven people, but my parent forces me to eat broccoli every day, so since x is commiting a indirect immoral action, my parent is the worst one of them.
I am not a moral person. I, quite frankly, do not care about animals, and I would like to think I would be able to murder an animal myself(for food), since I am doing it now, albeit indirectly, and if you can’t live with the consequences of your decisions, why make them? Weigh the consequences of your actions. Do not run away from them like a coward(a lot of moralizing for a self-proclaimed immoral person).
I respect vegans. If you care about animal welfare, and are opposed to cruel treatment of animals you should not eat meat, and that’s what they do.
cm0002@lemmy.world 3 months ago
First of all, the mere death or killing of an animal to be immoral, it’s simply the way of life in the animal world. The animal world knows nothing of morals and ethics, this very discussion is a wholly unnatural and human unique thing to have. Do you call a lion a murderer when it hunts down and eats a zebra?
Second, a direct immoral action is worse because it involves a clear, intentional act that directly causes harm. In contrast, buying meat is far less worse because a) it’s more like paying someone to solve a problem for you who doesn’t tell you how they solve it and in turn pays someone else who in turn pays someone else who in turn pays the actual person/company taking the action who in turn is spending millions upon millions to keep the majority of people thinking “Everything is fine, no abuse here” and b) the mere consumption of meat isn’t immoral, like I said its just how the animal kingdom works it’s natural. But rather the way that meat is made, the conditions the animals are subjected to that are immoral and wrong.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
no one is paying someone to abuse animals
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
This is the single worst argument you could make.
Every single pet owner does that. Would any animal - including farm animals - choose to eat what humans provide them? Surely [cheapest store brand] wouldn’t be popular if they had a choice.
samus12345@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Good question when it comes to pets. “Would you rather have to go out and hunt every day to get enough to eat, or just eat the canned stuff I give you?” I know I’d take the canned stuff, but who knows what individual pets would choose.
saltesc@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Christ, I hope that dog got taken off them.
SuperIce@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Why?
ulterno@lemmy.kde.social 3 months ago
Why can’t ppl just be a “vegetarian that does not drink milk”, instead of making a whole new ism?
It’s because ism is a syllable of power! They shall cast it when the time is right and have control over the massesssss!
sxan@midwest.social 3 months ago
Because it’s more than just not drinking milk. Vegans avoid all products that result from the direct exploitation of animals, including eggs and honey. It also includes not using animal products like leather; you can be a vegetarian and still wear leather.
Honey always seemed a stretch to me, as apiaries benefit bees, but veganism is pretty significantly different from vegetarianism; having a different term for it makes sense.
aniki@lemmings.world 3 months ago
Veganism isn’t a diet.