Submitted 1 year ago by RyanLiu@lemmy.world to [deleted]
If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?
and that’s missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn’t leave a business card behind, so he wouldn’t have clue who to kill 😂
None of that is gaslighting. However, it’s a red flag.
No, it doesn’t. Nothing here screams fear of abandonment. It screams insecurity, it screams anxiety, it screams mentally unhealthy, but this doesn’t say anything that could highlight BPD, or any other disorder.
You know, the usual.
I’m sure it’s been said already, but there is nothing usual about what you described. She sounds unstable and you should reconsider this relationship.
But to be pedantic, nothing about what you described sounds even remotely like gaslighting.
Just to clarify your second statement, gaslighting is when person A tries to convince person B that person B did not see/hear/experience something that person B did in fact see, hear, or experience.
In OP’s situation, their girlfriend might be gaslighting OP if she texted “I’m getting an Uber home, see you in a bit” and then got mad and insisted she had told OP to meet her at the door.
All that said, I will echo many others in this thread and say that just because it isn’t gaslighting doesn’t mean OP is in a healthy relationship. OP, please insist on relationship counseling at a minimum.
It is absolutely needless, unreasonable guilt tripping, though.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text
You are not.
Source: 20 years of a successful marriage.
Your partner has some issues she seems to need to work through. Entertaining her delusions probably won’t help her.
the usual? what the fuck kind of people have you started so far that asking a series of gone girl fantasy questions in the middle of the night is usual?
I was thinking the same thing.
She asked me to murder someone. You know, couples stuff.
I have dated exactly 1 (one) girl. I am her first relationship as well. Maybe we just don’t know what is normal lmao
If there is one lesson I could teach my younger self, it would be to have several low commitment relationships while I was younger to learn what is “normal”. Once you start making murder pacts, it’s usually too late.
what is normal lmao
It’s not, she’s crazy.
This ain’t it. I can smell the batshit from here.
“What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual.
Uhhhh
The bitch is crazy, get rid of her asap
Yeah, this is seriously manipulative.
As someone who is in a long-term relationship with a partner who struggled with these kind of issues when we met…
She has to be willing to understand this is a problem, and even if her fears are justified, she needs help, because berating you and being manipulative by asking super loaded questions (especially in the middle of the night, wtf. she needs some work on boundaries, too) is in no way shape or form a normal or healthy aspect of any functioning relationship.
Be willing to go to counseling with her if you want to try to make it work, but she has to be able to see what she has done, show sincere regret, and want to change. It can take time, and everyone deserves that chance, but only if they’re willing to put in the work.
If she’s unable or unwilling to accept how hurtful and manipulative what she did was, and that she at the very least needs counseling, then you need to consider ending it.
This is absolutely manipulative.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship, and when she did decide to talk about it, put you into a compromised position- being unable to think clearly.
The questions she’s asking are meant to elicit fear and massive guilt. Though to be blunt, I’m going to assume there’s no real danger of any of that happening, I assume the neighborhood is fairly safe. Because usually it is.
As for what you’d do…? Call the cops. Duh. You (probably) don’t have the resources to find any one and kill them, and besides which, if she’s really asking that you do, uhm… dodge that bullet.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship,
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn’t the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
A much more healthy response, from either individual, would be to set a timeframe for when they can reengage. Either him saying “clearly you don’t want to discuss this now. That’s okay. How about the morning?” or her saying the same, essentially. It’s healthy to admit that you just do not have the emotional capacity to have a conversation respectfully.
There’s a pretty good chance the questions asked were only asked because she was still very emotionally high. The fact that it occurred in the middle of the night, suddenly, after OP being asleep, says that she has probably not been regulating. Not good times to be having emotional discourse. Every person has said weird, gross, or straight up untrue things when they’re emotionally charged. Stuff you don’t believe or wouldn’t act on, and never would have said in a normal state.
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn’t the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
So she gets to unilaterally decide when they talk? including, when the OP is in a vulnerable mental state? I think you’re focusing too much on what the GF needs and denying the OP the same you’d give her. The fact that he was sleeping would definitely suggest he’s not ready to have the conversation.
My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex?
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinkg her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facillitating bad person for missing a few texts?
She is trying to guilt trip you for missing her text by using emotionally ever the top hyperbole which is not gaslighting. Gaslighting requires intentionally lying about something that did not happen to make you question your own experience.
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
Reading this I’m not sure I’d fault him even if that were the case.
Still rampant manipulation, though.
Gaslighting is not a level, just a different technique. It can be done at varying levels of severity.
Abandon ship, my dude.
Holy shit you gotta love the Internet with people, based on this one story, thinking it makes sense to warn that she might be planning a murder suicide. Lol wow.
also why does it have 22 upvotes? very scary.
Really? No.
Borderline personality disorder is a special kind of crazy, yes, but it’s severe abandonment anxiety at it’s core. I hate how much BPD gets thrown around, because it’s quite a bit more benign that people understand.
This situation doesn’t tell us ANYTHING about any mental disorder she may or may not have.
IT DOES tell us that she is not a healthy individual and he needs to fucking run because we don’t want to find out what really is wrong with her.
can we stop villainizing a mental illness please? this is the most blatant overblown reaction ever.
also, his girlfriend is just batshit. just say that. it’s obvious, but you don’t need to insult those who suffer just because it’s a convenient tool to use as a villain.
BPD sucks all the way around. don’t use it as a catch-all for your hatred.
this is the most blatant overblown reaction ever.
correct take
So, fair warning, I am autistic, but also, I’ve had several multi year relationships with people like this, here’s my read of this:
This is extremely manipulative and abusive behavior toward you.
You forgot about a text after a hard day of work.
She got angry and refused to speak with you for hours because you missed a text.
And you say this is apparently normal behavior.
That is fucking absurd, to be frank.
Before any of the rest of the story, that alone is bonkers.
Just do the reverse situation in your head. You’re out late for some on location work event, text her and ask if she can be there when you get back home. She forgets.
Would you be so angry or disappointed that you would refuse to speak to her for 3 hours, would that be something she would accept as normal behavior from you, and would she be inclined to blame herself and totally accept this punishment from you as appropriate?
The rest of this story is she wakes you up in the middle and questions you with absurd nonsensical questions that are all specifically designed as loyalty tests.
I had a 3 year relationship with a person like this.
She was schizophrenic, massively physically, mentally and emotionally abusive toward me.
I am of course not going to say your partner is schizophrenic based off of this alone, I am just saying that reading your story immediately sent me back into the mindstate and memories of my own.
It is however clear to me that your acceptance of this kind of behavior as normal, up until the middle of the night nonsense questioning, to me this indicates that she is utterly dominating you into total submission, and you think this is normal.
It is not.
Fucking bail out immediately is what I would do.
It is completely absurd to think that she could somehow have been kidnapped in the 30 seconds between getting out of an uber and walking to your door.
If she actually believed she was in real danger of being kidnapped, she almost certainly would have told you why, and would have asked you to evaluate her why and what to do to prevent it.
Shes fucking grooming you when she guilt trips you into saying you’d murder someone on her account in a totally hypothetical situation that she is taking extremely seriously.
She is trying to make you feel extremely guilty for things that 1) are not and would not be your fault if they occured and 2) have almost 0 chance of actually occurring.
Maybe there is a 1% chance she will open up later and tell you, wow ok, i was really on edge last night, here is why: and then recount an actual, unlikely but possible extremely unnerving situation.
Or, she is cheating on you or has done something you would be greatly displeased with if you found out, and this is all a reflection/distraction technique. She felt guilty so she leaped at any chance to make you into the bad guy.
Again, I obviously cannot say with any certainty that is what is actually going on, but I can certainly say that she is a highly manipulative and abusive person if you find it normal for her to just completely give you the silent treatment for hours for an inconsequential error.
If she consistently behaves like this when you make a mistake, then you are being emotionally abused.
Run.
Fucking run, bro.
I’ll add to the chorus. No, by definition this isn’t gas lighting, but the behaviour is extreme an no less concerning. I’ll not try to give amateur psychological diagnosis over the internet like some here are apparently willing to do, but you don’t need that to know that she’s acting in a really fucked up way.
I wouldn’t say you were “in the wrong” for missing her text, I mean, you missed it, it’s not like you chose to do that, but I can see why from her perspective it felt temporarily frightening and it made her angry to be put in that situation (I’m assuming she was just frightened and that that’s justified where you guys live, because where I am, her request is strange in the first place and getting mad about it not being fulfilled is ludicrous). How she’s dealt with those unpleasant, but temporary emotions that had a perfectly reasonable explanation and resulted in no actual harm is unreasonable, unfair and ridiculous.
The questions themselves are as manipulative as they are pointless. “What would you tell my mother?” I hardly think that’s a particular important consideration “she’s been kidnapped” probably, since that’s what’s happened in this scenario, the question is not asked to get an answer, it’s asked to maximise guilt because she thinks it’s your fault if some psychopath kidnaps her. The subsequent questions likewise are selfish questions to ask because realistic answers are implicitly unacceptable, she just wanted debasement and contrition. If the CCTV is broken then the police, who would be the ones investigating this, would have their investigation compromised, there’d be little you or anyone could do about that hence asking because she wants some kind of super hero saves the princess type of answer or for you to have no answer so she can pounce. She’s extracting false or unrealistic promises on purpose as a kind of emotional salve. The worst and most concerning of all is the request that you kill someone for her, this is real life, not John Wick. I can only assume and hope that she doesn’t really actually believe you’d do any of this not really want it and it’s just part of this stupid punishment where you’ve got to promise the moon over and over until she feels you’ve made an idiot if yourself for long enough. If she really is sincere about that request and wants to bring it up again in any serious capacity that really would be time to leave because the fact that she has a manipulative streak and is now apparently murderous as well raises a lot red flags, but most likely she was never serious to begin with and this will likely not be something that comes up particularly often. This was up to you but frankly I would have stopped the game of make believe at that point and not actually made a promise to kill people on her behalf even if it’s all non-specific fantasy, it’s not a prospect that should be entertained on any level. The thing about the cat was just funny and honestly would have been kind of sweet if it wasn’t for everything that came before. It is evident from the order of questions and the fact that you had answers to everything at that point that she was reaching for a “gotcha” to prove you don’t think about things because you’re somehow inconsiderate.
This response to an everyday wrinkle in the fabric of life is something to keep an eye on because if she cannot deal with being temporarily made to endure bad feelings on occasion without having to make you pay then this is going to happen to you a lot and the things you’re accused of or indirectly implied to be responsible for will be long and absurd. Let her cool off on this specific incident and if after there’s been time to reflect, she still brings it up again with the same manipulative and guilt tripping approach I’d suggest to her that maybe it’s not working out. If this single incident has shaken her faith in you so badly maybe she could take some responsibility for her own safety since apparently nothing you say will convince her that you’ll be of any use in that regard.
You’re using rationality to defend your behavior instead of connecting emotionally around a fundamentally emotional issue. This doesn’t mean that her behavior was justified either, but rationality will only get you so far in solving this problem. Arguably, there’s an intimate and emotional reason you’re together. If you’re both not engaging in protecting and growing that first, then you’ll end in a you vs her situation.
Girl is crazy and you’re telling him that him being RATIONAL is problematic? Get the fuck out of here.
It’s true enough advice, though. She has an emotional problem, not a rational one. She probably knows full well that her response isn’t rational, but she still feels the feelings she has. Explaining the rationale and logic she seems to be missing is only going to make her more upset. Versus, instead, figuring out what her actual problem is. Maybe it’s a long standing issue, having texts ignored. Maybe she has some past trauma, or something specific happened that day that just set them off.
It’s not always about being right or wrong. Her response, we all agree, was a wrong response. It’s one that I’d be considering the relationship for. But it’s also one to learn from, for all parties. Someone having a problem stemming from an emotion often isn’t going to be made better by logicing the situation into submission.
People, it’s not this black and white either.
If you think issues in a relationship can be solved with logic/rationality only… good luck!
if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?”
So…this makes no sense. If I had to guess, I’d imagine your girlfriend exhibits this kind of strange obsessive behavior inconsistently, has occasional bouts of depression, and is no older than 30. Regardless of whether I’m right (but especially if I am), you should consider whether your girlfriend is suffering from something that requires a psych evaluation and get her one.
My ex-wife would do very much the same thing and more and she was abusive as fuck. If this kind of thing is typical, it’s a big red flag.
Asking people online if your partner is gaslighting you is serious concern for your situation, whether her behaviors were actually gaslighting or not. Your intuition is telling you something is wayyyyy off. Also, that you had to ask us and not close friends, family, or her herself is another major red flag. Either you are socially isolated and have no one to ask or you are protecting her reputation because you know that those behaviors would be judged quite poorly by people that care about you.
As someone that has dated something like that before, I know my words will not mean much to you. You will undoubtedly rationalize her behavior as her being justifiably triggered, reacting to childhood trauma, making a good point, cute because that’s how she communicates love, etc. Regardless, make a note of what everyone here is telling you. Her behaviors were not acceptable at all. There is no justification for them, and that you said it was the usual is troubling.
The best anyone can do for you now is be a voice of reason and direct you to learn about psychological and emotional abuse so you can see it and decide for yourself. Here are 2 resources that I found helpful when I was in your situation:
Save Your Sanity is a series of videos/podcasts on being in a relationship with difficult people. She has all sorts of topics that are relevant, including how to spot gaslighting.
The other is the book Should I Stay or Should I Go? Surviving a Relationship with a Narcissist by Ramani Durvasula. I like this one in particular because it has a questionnaire in it you can take to help you notice of you’re in a toxic relationship. Taking that questionnaire was the catalyst that started my escape. Check it out and be truthful. If she’s okay and this was just a unique experience, then there is nothing to worry about and the book will help you confirm that.
I highly recommend that you don’t tell you partner you are looking into this. Ask anyone that’s been in an abusive relationship. Shoot, make another AskLemmy post asking this. Telling a potential abuser/narcissist/manipulator that you are on to them is a HUGE mistake. Instead, look into it on your own during your free time. If she accidentally catches you, say you ran into this online and it seemed interesting. A healthy partner won’t even think about it anymore. If she starts with an interrogation, gets upset, or suddenly becomes the best girlfriend ever, that’s manipulation.
Certainly, she will commit more odd and questionable behaviors in the future. I urge you to maintain a secret log of her behaviors so that you can stay sane and notice. Please feel free to reach out. Don’t stay isolated. You can make another post, and you can even contact me directly via Matrix (see my profile). Good luck!
I feel like there might be a culture gap here. OP hasn’t mentioned where he’s from, or what his neighborhood is like. I’ve lived in places where women do NOT want to be alone at any time, and I suspect many of the commentors here have never experienced a place like that.
It might just be an unhealthy relationship, but depending on context, it might be a very reasonable and understandable reaction.
everything was already said in this thread, except for one thing: it is pretty normal that the taxi driver waits for the woman to enter the building; she can always ask to make sure he will do that.
so there really isn’t factual problem in the scenario that was described.
It sounds like she was concerned about the Uber driver and didn’t feel like you didn’t make her feel safe. I think it’s an overreaction on her part but it’s still real feelings.
You can’t win those arguments, you just have to stay calm and say that you’re sorry for not coming down as she was arriving. Then maybe ask if the driver made her feel uncomfortable or whatever.
She doesn’t want answers, just empathy and a feeling that you care about her safety.
This is not gaslighting, but it is odd.
What would have happened if you had just said “sorry I’m really busy with work today and won’t be able to meet you at the drop off”?
If this would cause her to act the same way, then there’s something wrong. Maybe she recently did a true crime binge and is feeling insecure about her safety? Or maybe she’s showing signs of mental illness. If you guys are in your early 20s, that’s when schizophrenia typically shows up, and can definitely have some paranoia to it. But, you’d need to get a professional to diagnose something like that.
If it wouldn’t cause her to act like this, then she’s probably just pissed you didn’t do what you said you would do. Maybe you have a track record of this kind of behavior and she’s starting to get tired of it?
You might want to X-post to c/relationshipadvice as well. That being said, the only one responsible for kidnapping anyone is the kidnappers. And no one should expect their friends or lover to kill their kidnappers. It would likely get you killed in the attempt. On top of this, these are all hypotheticals.
Someone who is using hypotheticals that they made up in their head against you is more worried about themselves than you.
It is not my place, but this person sounds like someone I wouldn’t even want to be friends with, let alone date. Friends are there to build each other up, not tear them down and add anxiety.
Just run.
she begin asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
Yeah these sound like tests.
My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her
Of course not.
The kidnapper is responsible. Maybe an instigator, too.
But not random persons who could maybe have done random things differently.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 1 year ago
I don't think it's gaslighting. Gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their perception of reality. This is being angry at someone.
I can't really relate. Is it really that dangerous where you live? We probably live in different countries but I don't have CCTV in the residential area where I live. And usually in the summer, it's still bright enough at 10pm an people are still around and it's safe enough for women to walk home alone. At least in most places.
RyanLiu@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We live in Taiwan, it’s pretty safe afaik, also CCTV is everywhere here especially in and around the big cities.
Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So, London?