Why?

Comments

• it_depends_man@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  How hard is it to implement email verification?

  Harder, actually.

  That’s the point of OAuth, which is what you’re seeing there.

  The idea is that you’re you and you have a… google account. This shitty little website doesn’t want to be responsible for you login details, because those can get stolen. Maybe they contain an email address, which is a problem. Software needs to be updated, it’s all a big. They don’t want to touch anything in terms of security that identifies you as you.

  Maybe all the website does is save your favorite pepe memes. They don’t need anything else from you, but they still need to have something to get a user id and make sure nobody messes with your pepe meme collection. That’s where this system comes in, because the rest of website becomes significantly easier. They don’t need to store anything personally identifying, all they get is an ID and they can connect it with your pepes.

  The only downside to OAuth is, as you can also see, that it’s corpos you don’t want to trust that are offering it.

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  • zewm@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Okay, but where is the link to this Pepe memes page?

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    • it_depends_man@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Unfortunately just an example.

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    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Yeah show us deh memes

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  • lenocolomo@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    While I get that, it is still unfortunate that no open-source, trusted variant can be part of the usual ways.

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    • it_depends_man@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      That’s… mostly because of popularity and it depends on whether some service is offering OAuth and if the website in question is using THAT identity provider.

      For example, mastodon is technically offering it.

      github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/16221

      but this is the docs page:

      docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/optional/sso/

      So the answer in this case is to just grow, promote and support what we’re already doing: fediverse stuff.

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    • foggenbooty@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      There’s really no reason something like that couldn’t exist. A foundation would just have to decide to dedicate the resources to it.

      The issue is it would have to gain significant adoption in order for web admins to think to include it. This list here is actually a lot larger than you usually see. It’s often just the big 2 or 3.

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    • Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Actually, there are some open-source self-hosted alternatives like Hydra but no one implements it :( I have seen only 1 site that support it

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    • gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      They can? They are in some cases!

      Just usually indie stuff. There’s Login With Mastodon on plenty of websites.

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    • fascicle@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Even something like bitwarden would be nice

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  • criss_cross@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Was just about to say getting Auth right is super hard. Getting someone else to do it for you is a godsend.

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  • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Most users outside of Lemmy dgaf about corpos if it saves them having to type in an email address on their phone and get it right and then go to their email and then hit refresh a few times before going back and hitting send again and then checking their spam folder

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  • Wispy2891@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    But most oauth implementations use the user email as identifier so they get the email anyway

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    • it_depends_man@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      All the smarter ones don’t because an email can change, your google account unique id will not, that’s the purpose of account IDs.

      I won’t deny that many people/websites probably do use email though. Which is bad. But I can’t deny that that probably is what is happening.

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  • nieminen@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Yeah, some of the same reason everyone uses stripe or PayPal for payment systems. If the site itself handles the cc info it holds all the liability, and has to pass rigorous POC testing and compliance.

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  • fraksken@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I have no account with the above. I wouldn’t make one for being able to use another service.

    No idea what the product is here, but I guess I’m not their target audience. Which is fine.

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    • gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Just have a spam account?

      spamspamspamspam2026@gmail.com for e.g.

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• echodot@feddit.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  How is it login with YouTube and login with Google two different things. It’s the same login.

  What website is this?

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  • dreamy@quokk.au ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It’s kirka.io.

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• 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  How hard is it to implement email verification?

  Securely? Very fucking difficult.

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  • ChromaticMan@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    No it’s not.

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    • bangupjobasusual@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      Sorry, yes it is. I’d really prefer it if software developers would take this more seriously. Managing user credentials is a high risk burden that you should avoid if possible.

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    • whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      securely

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• BiscuityCat@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It reminds of this: Image

  There were more options on the website, but I forgot the name of the website, and I cannot find it now… :(

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  • marduk@lemmy.today ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Image

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    • Nukitashi@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Finally! I xan log in using potatoes 🥔

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    • ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      This is the one that came to my mind. Much funnier

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  • MintyFresh@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    What!? I can’t even log in using my PornHub credentials? Fucking amateurs.

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    • BiscuityCat@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Don’t worry. That option was there as well.

      However, depending on the website it may require your watch history before allowing you to login.

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• RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  If I don’t have the option to use email or continue as guest I refuse to use whatever the site or app is.

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  • SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Is bugmenot still a thing?

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  • nieminen@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I’ve reached that point as well. Every new thing I sign up for I use an alias email, because I’m certain they’ll sell my shit at some point, and I’d like to be able to know who did it.

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• IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Datamining.

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• CannedYeet@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I can see how they got there from the implementation side. There’s a library they used for their site, maybe a CMS, where all those choices are just a click away. But for email they have to get their hands on an SMTP server. And that takes non-zero effort.

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  • kinther@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Exactly this

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• zorro@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I feel conflicted. OAuth gets a lot correct in so far as most sites don’t have to deal with a lot of difficult auth bits, but also I don’t like having to rely on big (usually social media) companies to be the auth source.

  I think about dnssec a lot.

  It feels to me like there should be some form of public key infrastructure where there is a global root key (or short list of) then providers that can issue certificates out to other smaller organizations or individuals who could then use that source of trust to prove who they are. Imagine OAuth but you could just fill in your provider of choice (self hosted?) and if the certs checked out everything would verify correctly.

  That being said who does the bits around ensuring that you are who you say you are. I suppose a government body running such a system could work though I sweat at the idea of going to the dmv to reset a forgotten password or report a stolen identity.

  Idk maybe if I think about this enough I can come up with a cryptography secure system…

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  • bangupjobasusual@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

    You just invented passkey with oauth.

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  • ironycanal@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Just as long as it can be run in capitalism!

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• dyathinkhesaurus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  If you log in with social media, they get more than your email address. Data mining.

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  • artwork@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    They do not, normally, unless you specifically allow that. Yet, indeed, many services enable/require quite permissive scopes by default.

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    • Jhex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      so they mostly do…

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    • valar@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Regardless of your privacy choices, if you are using a shared login, that activity it is connected with your broader profile.

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• artwork@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Because it’s significantly harder legally and financially to process Email (even via outsourced services as MailChimp) and store someone’s personal information as Email if compared to a social account ID, in long term.

  Not only that, but OAuth providers have APIs to get sufficient User information as Name, Email (yet, by requested/allowed scope only), activity on that social network as posts/channels/followers count etc.

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  • emb@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    This right here. I’d rather my email stay the source of truth for auth, but totally sympathize with website owners that don’t want to store and protect any sensitive user data (like an email address and password).

    On some level I know the OAuth flow should be pretty safe. The idea that I have one identity that gets me into multiple sites makes a lot of sense. And I’m already using the same email in most places, so it’s not like I’m anonymous anyway.

    And yet… I can’t convince my paranoia that ‘sign in with Google’ isn’t oversharing. I always worry that authorizing with other sites will give too many permissions yo see/alter Google/whatever data, or that clicking it will take me to a fake Google/whatever page where I give away my creds.

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• StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  If i cant log in with an independent email then im not ltailgate.

  I had the same problem yesterday as I was investigating tailscale. And while I get it for that service there’s no reason for it for some of the other services that ask me to link my other accounts to them as a means of logging in.

  No. I will not consolidate my log-in profiles under companies that dont see me as a person.

  Anonymous or nothing. Period.

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  • gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I host my own headscale instead

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  • Disorder6069@sh.itjust.works ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I believe they have passkey as an option now

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    • dustyData@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I hate that I can’t change the auth method. I’m stuck with github. And for the life of me can’t figure out how to change to anything else. The option is not there were help says it should be, and support doesn’t care. My only choice is to scrap everything and start a new network from scratch.

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• JoMiran@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Image

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• TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I’ve always hated logging that shit. Why would I want to add dependencies to my fucking logins?

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• kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  What is VK?

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  • crimson_iris@piefed.social ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I believe it’s vkontakte, basically a russian facebook.

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    • Kurtagag@lemmy.ca ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Oh TIL

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  • Dymonika@lemmy.ml ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    VK is Russian Facebook, invented by Pavel Durov who himself was cast out of Russia and went on to build and run Telegram.

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    • tja@sh.itjust.works ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      No, He ist in Dubai

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  • artwork@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    vk.com

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    • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Well I’m not clicking that

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  • jaybone@lemmy.zip ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Sounds like an STD.

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    • lemmysmash@piefed.social ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It is.

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• sidebro@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I dislike sites like this, I usually click away or just don’t sign up

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• Sibbo@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Oauth should become federated, just as email.

  Then the browser should generate the buttons based on which oauth services you actually use.

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  • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Oauth should become federated, just as email.

    Aren’t you just describing OpenID at that point? Implementation and adoption has been uneven, but the standard complements OAuth.

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  • Joeffect@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The problem is the activitypub and Oauth are two very different ideas… one is so posts from one server show up on another and one is who are you?

    How would you store and trust private keys?

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• the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Whatever site that is, I dont need to be there.

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• MutantTailThing@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Guess I’m not logging in

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• altphoto@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I want to login with my butthole print. Did you know that no butthole is the same?

  Problem is with general cleanliness. Like the Japanese with their bidet’s, they wouldn’t have a problem signing in because the print is always a clean print.

  There’s also hemorrhoids and other temporary deformations of the butthole that take some time to repair. I mean with hemorrhoids you’ll be waiting there for a week. But what if you just had a big poop. Well, it might help deter criminals trying to ping the machine too quickly.

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  • f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    American high-school athletes in conservative states: Login with genital verification.

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• Agent641@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Can I login with Pornhub?

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  • merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I’ve always thought it was amazing that Pornhub offers to let you sign in with something – I can’t remember if it was Google or Facebook or something.

    There really can’t be many people who use that, can there?

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• voodooattack@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  No login with GitHub or X? Tsk tsk

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  • nieminen@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    People need to stop using xitter

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    • voodooattack@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I haven’t “used it” in years. I just keep the account alive because of OAuth and other factors.

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• redlemace@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Collecting as much data they possibly can to increase the value of the data. Bottom line: more info=more money

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  • tyler@programming.dev ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    They get less info… oauth is used do you can handle less customer data and so you don’t have to worry about leaking a bunch of usernames and passwords…

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• SirHaxalot@nord.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Because for the vast majority of people yet another password, or even yet another 2FA code is an anti-feature.

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• iltg@sh.itjust.works ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  not 100% related but i think login should be less user friendly

  “here take this 512 byte hash and store it and it’s you and if you lose it or have it stolen i couldn’t care less”

  email verification is hard to do right (as said in top reply), oauth is annoying to get set up but more secure and all big providers have fancy recovery and login methods

  no oauth? get the hash or go away

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  • dreamy@quokk.au ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I very much agree. I’ve always loved how Mullvad VPN and SMSPool have handled logins in this kind of fashion. It’s just much more convenient than e-mail + password.

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• CoolSouthpaw@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Cos fuck you, that’s why.

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• bacon_pdp@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  A SAML token verification can be implemented correctly in under 50 lines of code. (Without needing anything beyond a basic crypto library for decryption and signature checks ) then you just have a SAML identity to user account mapping table (so that they can have multiple SAML providers and retain access or switch between different accounts).

  But yeah, some shady sites use it to get your name and other information. (Which SAML providers should properly inform you about, as they are the ones packing that data based on what the receiving has registered)

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• psx_crab@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Money.

  Also it kinda depend on how much you trust the website security and how much precaution you have. For general public who don’t really know how to protect themselves against hacking and databreach(those who might not know the existence of password manager), the option of letting a giant corpos handle the login is much better than to just blindly trust the website.

  Also money.

  Also the website might not want to build and maintain their own database for this(which cost money), so they outsource the login to other company.

  And also money.

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• Highlow@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Because we are employed developers and this is what the bosses wanted. There are lots of things I made that make me facepalm or I think is stupid but im a peon and my only other option is to find a different job. Where there will also be dumb shit I have to code for a paycheck.

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• Smeef@crazypeople.online ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Right? It’s demented!

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• gole@lemmy.zip ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  The apple one is enforced by apple if you want to go on the app store. The rest follows. Personally I blame apple for starting this bullshit.

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