It’s simple, if a restaurant adds something to the bill I did not agree to beforehand I’ll never eat there again.
Restaurant Bill
Submitted 11 months ago by YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world to mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/21973e66-9f4f-4cfc-be8a-066cdd914693.jpeg
Comments
corship@feddit.de 11 months ago
BassaForte@lemmy.world 11 months ago
If a restaurant adds something to the bill I didn’t agree to beforehand, I’m not paying.
corship@feddit.de 11 months ago
That would be confident, but usually it’s not worth the trouble.
I’d rather leave with 20 quid less than wasting 30 min of my time.
snooggums@kbin.social 11 months ago
I have never eaten at a restaurant that did not disclose a mandatory gratuity ahead of time, but I suppose it could happen.
Frozengyro@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They should have it listed somewhere in large print and/or verbally inform people so patrons are aware ahead of time
jasondj@ttrpg.network 11 months ago
Went out to a pizza place the other night. Thought it was a brewery (one of my favorite local brews, actually), and had been there before and enjoyed flights from them…only to find out the place was a joint between the brewmaster and the restaurateur. Brewmaster took his share, his recipes, and dipped.
Anyways while the food was pretty good, I mostly went for the beer and that’s a big part of why I won’t go back (they only had a couple cans from the brewery left and nothing on tap, only some other regional breweries).
But the other part is that my wife put a tip down on the slip for our party of four (us and two kids) and asked me to doublecheck her math. I thought it seemed high and it turned out they already put a tip on the bill. For a party of four. Never saw that before.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Yea they better have this charge displayed very well on the menu
twisted28@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This has been happening in Florida for a few years now. Restaurant owners went to court so they could keep the service charge. In the beginning I thought it was just a mandatory tip to stop people from stiffing the waiter. Nope they actually expect you to pay 18% plus another 20% for the waiter. Ridiculous. We don’t go out to eat much anymore on principle.
DiatomeceousGirth@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s cuz they’re too chicken shit to actually raise the menu price. So they can blame the government or the workers instead of taking responsibility for paying their staff shit wages forever
twisted28@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Yes, Greed., as always. I suspect many industries will completely or partially close in the coming years as the population is just too broke.
vivadanang@lemm.ee 11 months ago
“no one wants to work anymore” says restaurant owner who won’t pay a living wage even after jacking up service fees.
AtariDump@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Rentlar@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Yeah if I hear a word about my decision to include the service fees in the tip, that’s the last time the restaurant will see my business.
latca@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Paying for servers based off of the price of the food just doesn’t make sense to me. If I order a super expensive caviar and super expensive bottle of wine the staff would be paid more than another server with large party that only orders inexpensive drinks. The second server would be paid less for doing more work.
I think they should just be paid a decent wage for doing their job well despite what the customer decided to order.
On a side note if the server has to do something like prepare a salad table side or flambé a dessert they should get a bonus for doing that.
Okokimup@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I worked as a server at olive garden many years ago. They famously had their soup, salad, and breadsticks deal for like $6 something. People would run us ragged getting more of each thing. And we’d be lucky to get a $1 or 2 because the price was so low, but it was vastly more work than regular food.
dan@upvote.au 11 months ago
I think they should just be paid a decent wage for doing their job well despite what the customer decided to order
Where I live, there’s no separate minimum wage for tipped positions. It’s the same as the regular minimum wage. Even so, it’s still customary to tip, but just for some jobs. It’s never made sense to me that it’s customary to tip a Doordash driver but not a casual FedEx or UPS employee when the latter likely has more work to do and stricter deadlines to do it.
III@lemmy.world 11 months ago
not a casual FedEx or UPS employee
Do you want corporate efforts to reduce delivery driver wages and processes to demand you pay their wages through delivery tips? Because I am sure are ready to go on this endeavor as soon as you want.
Vox@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
at a lot of places tips are split between front and back of house and those tips are based on the price of the meal, not the “tip” that was given. This results in many servers losing money and having to pay coworkers out of their own pocket on big groups or expensive bills that either don’t tip at all or only tip something like 10%.
I’m not advocating for this system at all, I just wanted to share some more info on how/why tipping works the way it does (in the US at least).
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
What percentage tip results in negative money?
Diasl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
I don’t think you know how numbers work. Why would they be paying coworkers out of a tip that never existed?
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s not going to the server, not unless the city has a minimum wage, or something. But any thing over that is 100% going to managment’s coffers.
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
ALL cities in all states have a minimum wage for all workers. By federal law
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
18% service charge and then still ask for tips? Fuck all of this, this is a scam and refuse to pay this shit.
freeman@lemmy.pub 11 months ago
Based on the bottom of the receipt i would have said to the server something like “great, it says right here no need to tip”
III@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What a lovely way to ensure that your customers will never return.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 11 months ago
How about just raising prices since it is a cost of running the business.
awesome357@lemmynsfw.com 11 months ago
That sounds just like tipping, but with more steps. And also the resteraunt skimming a chunk of it too I’m sure. 18% service fee so we can pay 8% higher wages.
badbytes@lemmy.world 11 months ago
LOL
Dkarma@lemmy.world 11 months ago
This is probably a hotel or resort. $4 cookie and $6 oj are the giveaways .
$11 cannoli etc.
Rootiest@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Why have a service fee at all then?
Just raise the prices and use the extra income to pay the employees better if that’s really your intention.
People won’t get upset about the tip on top of it if you don’t already have a “service charge” sectioned off in the receipt.
Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s so that they can deceitfully advertise prices which are lower than the real price.
I believe this is totally illegal in the EU (because they’re obligated to list prices and all charges, fully, upfront and that even includes taxes) but I guess that in the US there are States were it’s either not illegal or has never been challenge in court.
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 11 months ago
I had a service charge like that added in Rome once. It is most likely illegal, but Rome is a pretty lawless place as it is, so I didn’t bother spending time arguing it and getting all worked up about a couple of euros during my holiday, just avoided the place thereafter. I know that’s probably what they’re counting on …
roofuskit@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I the s legal most places in the US, some big cities like New York City have outlawed it.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 11 months ago
Look at how the tips were calculated. They were based on a bill of $95.65, the price of the meal before the service fee.
This service fee allowed them to increase the price of the meal by 18% without increasing the calculated tip by 18%.
They are stiffing their employees.
WhipTheLlama@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Alternative option: the service fee is the tip because there’s no way I’m paying more than what’s on that bill.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Just raise the prices
They’re already selling lemonade for $6. The sky is clearly the limit.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 months ago
If the service charge is so they can pay the employees better, I guess they don’t need a tip on top of that unless they went above and beyond their basic duties.
bmsok@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The entire service fee thing is fraud at this point. Undercutting wages and skimming profits for owners off the backs of their employees.
I know it’s been happening forever but this shit has been escalating exponentially.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 11 months ago
It’s to make you mad at their employees
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 months ago
It’s failing. I’m just mad at the employer.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Possibly illegal, depending on your local laws.
If it is legal, contact your congressman (local, state, national) because it sure as hell needs to be illegal.
flipht@kbin.social 11 months ago
Very unlikely. There's a statement at the bottom that explains what the fee is. There's a QR code at the top for more information, which OP cut off.
I doubt they went through the effort of updating their POS system, providing links to info on the receipt, and chose not to post a sign or put a note on the menu. Everywhere I have been with a service fee like this posts it, which would negate any legal issue.
Caveat emptor.
LufyCZ@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
It’s illegal if the fact that a service fee would be added wasn’t shared before ordering (on the menu / by the waiter /…)
Nollij@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Possibly. Local laws vary heavily, and could limit hidden fees like these. If the franchise is in one of these places, but the parent chain is not, it could easily be implemented despite being illegal. It’s a similar case if the local operator didn’t have the required notices in the required way, since it would be done separately. Not necessarily out of malice, but a ton of places simply do not run a tight ship. The receipt is absolutely not the place these notices are required; that’s just a convenience.
It’s also possible that the POS has a bunch of options that can easily be set by management without involving lawyers. A required tip (often for large groups, but not always) is an easy use case for this. So are the various messages, including the tipping scale, or adding a promotional QR code (e.g. scan the code to fill out a survey and get $5 off your next visit)
In any event, I stand behind my advice- check if it’s illegal, and push to make it illegal.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 11 months ago
So you carefully included every possible level of US government, but still forgot about the entire rest of the world.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
First, many places have a local, state, and national government. Particularly the ones that use dollars, as shown as the receipt.
Stop trying to be offended at everything.
Sabin10@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The rest of the world doesn’t exist, it’s just a scam made up by the passport cartel to fleece you of your money every few years.
DeepFriedDresden@kbin.social 11 months ago
Let's see... dollar sign? Well that cuts out a lot of the world. Written in English, so that leaves about 3 countries. Australia doesn't have a tipping culture the same way we do in North America so that leaves either Canada or the US, in which case you can replace state with province and cover your bases.
Spaghetti_Hitchens@kbin.social 11 months ago
Looks at a picture of a receipt that is almost certainly from the US:
What about yhe rest of the world?!
billwashere@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I would simply not go to that restaurant anymore and very plainly let them know why. This is greed and I will not reward it.
Much like when I place a to go order and go pick up the order and the POS (point of sale not piece of shit if you’re wondering) system pops up that tip screen. You didn’t do anything worthy of a tip so I will not be tipping you. Now if for example when I get there they apply some discount I wasn’t aware of that makes my bill cheaper, I’ll tip for that. Throw in some extra cheese sauce, tip. Anything above and beyond, tip. Just ring me up and hand me my food, yeah no tip.
DrMango@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s this (the service charge) or they raise prices across the menu. Some people prefer this, some people prefer the added cost baked in.
Personally I think the service charge is a little deceptive because you are hit with an unexpected expense at the end of your meal. Even if they’re very up front about the charge most people won’t be automatically calculating the 18% extra on whatever they’re spending, they’re just going to look at the price on the menu.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
You realize that giving you 5% off so you will tip 15% is still greed though right? The greed is always there, it’s just your perception of how it’s delivered. We expect a little foreplay with our greed.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Oh boy, the unlawfulness of USA. This would be clearly illegal in EU, as misleading pricing.
Even if stated there’s an 18% extra fee, I’m pretty sure it would be illegal to state prices exclusively without it.
I would simply refuse to pay that fee if it was here, and report them to authorities.skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 11 months ago
I don’t think so, as long as the fee is made clear before getting the bill (e.g. indicated on the menus and signs outside). It’s definitely legal in Europe, assuming you were warned beforehand. It’s very common in some European countries (while entirely nonexistent in others).
In countries where tipping isn’t traditionally acceptable (like in places where it’s associated with bribing), service surcharge often replace the tipping. Charging a service surcharge and then suggesting a tip is ridiculous though.
I simply wouldn’t tip after that surcharge, but then again I’m European.
irotsoma@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Basically, they just raised their prices by 18% and blamed it on the greedy, useless employees. I don’t know why businesses bother selflessly “creating jobs” if they are so much trouble. Shouldn’t those be the first things to cut to make their business more efficient under capitalism? Stop doing charity work and run the business yourself.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 11 months ago
Probably better than expecting customers to tip voluntarily
Oh wait, they do that too
ropegirth@lemmynsfw.com 11 months ago
Increase the price of everything and pay a life supporting amount of money per hour of work. No tipping, no more service charge.
This service charge is literally the same but blaming the employees.
Illegal_Prime@dmv.social 11 months ago
I actually support phasing tips out for service fees, less dodgy and less influenced by cognitive biases from customers toward certain genders or ethnicities of staff.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Are restaurants just poorly managed, or is there another reason why they can’t pay their employees a living wage when their markup is like 400-1000%?
SeaJ@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I don’t return to restaurants that pull this bullshit. Raise your prices to provide a living wage or take a hit to your profits.
Smoogs@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Add to the fact all the food in the restaurant is much higher in caloric intake, sodium and sugar than any meal you could prepare at home. You get to have some wonderful heart disease with a side of stress. Hardly worth going out to restaurants anymore.
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Straight up fees like that should not be legal, if they even are in that location.
They should instead just add 18% to every menu item since it applies to everything anyways.
As it is right now advertising their cannoli for $11.00 is a straight up lie since it’s really $12.98. Also if got a bill with an 18% service charge I would definitely not tip, since tips are supposed to adjust for the low wages anyways.
RustedSwitch@lemmy.world 11 months ago
$16.25 for a kids size pasta dish?
Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Completely fuck this shit.
LemmyFeed@lemmy.world 11 months ago
These prices are crazy. Lemonade costs as much as a beer. Drip coffee for $5. One cookie for $4. Over $15 for a kid’s plate. Geeze.
roofuskit@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Kids shells are $16 each? Fuck this place.
Aarrodri@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Ok where is this so we can avoid it?
Zeroxxx@lemmy.my.id 11 months ago
It does seem tipping is American culture? Never heard this accross SEA and China
TotalFat@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The real crime here is $125 for bread and pasta…
macaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
$18.25 for a kids meal, $6 for lemonade is ridiculous. Don’t walk, run away!
Pratai@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
I would have not paid the 18% fee and let them explain it to the cops when they arrived. I guarantee that’s not posted anywhere that they do that- so…
False advertising.
DreBeast@lemmy.world 11 months ago
So the patron not only pays for the food/service, but there’s a separate fee to pay for ALL employees living wages??
If this trend continues the customers will end up making the food too!? Lol, I would talk to the manager for sure.
allywilson@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
In the UK we tend not to tip if there’s a service charge.
Craftkorb@feddit.de 11 months ago
It’s crazy how it’s your job to pay the workers when you’re not employing them. Just put the damn living wage into the price of the food, there, done. I’m going to a restaurant to eat stuff, not to haggle the worth of someone’s work.
linearchaos@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You’re taking my 18% to pay them living wages, they they don’t need tips.
$11 canoli? $16.25 kids shells?
Screw that place
Bonehead@kbin.social 11 months ago
The service charge is not a tip or gratuity, and is an added fee controlled by the restaurant that helps subsidize the staff wages so that management doesn't have to while still seeming to have reasonable prices on the menu. Also, management takes a cut as it subsidizes their wages too.
cerevant@lemm.ee 11 months ago
If you charge me for service, I’m not paying extra for service.
Call it what it is - a junk fee so they can make their prices look lower than they are. I wouldn’t go to this restaurant a second time.
NateNate60@lemmy.world 11 months ago
By tradition, the service charge is supposed to be paid to the staff. Therefore, it’s not customary to tip when you’re assessed a service charge, although many restaurants choose to ask for a tip anyway.
If you work in a restaurant that charges a service charge but pockets it… you’re being robbed.
MxM111@kbin.social 11 months ago
The cost of food in American restaurants includes service charger. It just not itemized. Waiters do have salaries, so it comes from somewhere.
Mango@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Heck, I wouldn’t even pay this restaurant the first time. I’m out. You ain’t making me pay extra after the fact.
Wermhatswormhat@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The problem is, this is still decietful. If this is an issue then the correct move would be to make every item on the menu 18% more expensive as a base. Because now, they still get to say “oh well our prices are still low come eat here and get “X item” for “Y price” but that’s not true anymore because of the service charge. It’s just a way to keep menu items lower in price but increase the price at the end.
ilikecoffee@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Sounds like it does much the same thing as tipping then, right? But then the receipt says you should pay the service charge and a tip on top 🤔
I’m not American so maybe someone can explain this to me, haha…
wolfpack86@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It doesn’t make sense to any sane person. But basically:
The restaurant feels that costs have increased and in order to remain profitable they must raise prices. Instead of raising prices on the menu, take the canoli as an example, from $11 to $13, they decided to add it after the calculation.
This means the customer may go out with an idea of what they would like to spend (maybe it’s a special treat for them) orders based on the menu, figures tip and tax… Expects to be out for $100… But surprise! You owe a fucking service charge.
Now-- I’m not into this particular restaurant’s finances. Let’s be generous and assume they need to charge more to break even. This is the shady (and should be illegal) way to do this. They should instead raise prices and be honest with the customer what they feel they need to charge.
fishos@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Except you’re wrong. It is a tip because the tip is the service charge. The tip specifically is “we pay them less than minimum wage and your tip covered the rest of their service cost”. A tip AND a service charge, especially a service charge not levied because there were X+ people at the table, is double dipping on the tip. Both fees are for the same thing. Either increase prices or increase the tip(or pay your workers fairly and don’t expect me to subsidized the rest with these secret fees). Make them upfront and honest. This isn’t. This is a perfect invitation to say “you already charged me for the service, so no tip is needed, because that’s what it is for”.
dan@upvote.au 11 months ago
Not everywhere. Some areas don’t allow wages that are lower than minimum wage for tipped jobs. The area I live in in California is around $17-18/hr minimum wage regardless of if the job is tipped or not.
ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Except you’re wrong. Service charges are not considered tips under FLSA rules within the US. Many states and local jurisdictions have special rules for tipped wages, how they’re taxed and those taxes are collected, and service charges are not included in that definition.
www.dov.gov/agencies/…/15-tipped-employees-flsa
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 11 months ago
If they charged a mandatory gratuity, I would agree with you. An 18% mandatory gratuity is an 18% tip to the waitstaff; you are not expected to pay an additional tip on top of that.
A tip is money directly to the waitstaff. The restaurant can’t touch it. The restaurant is not charged sales tax nor income tax on money collected as tips. When they collect a gratuity, it goes directly to the staff.
This “service fee” was taxed. It did not go directly to the waitstaff; it was recorded as sales revenue, and thus income to the restaurant. The restaurant is being taxed on it before any of it gets to the staff. They would only do that if they are keeping a part of it, which they could not do if it was considered a “tip” or “gratuity”.
Charging a “service fee” is a legal way for the restaurant to steal tips from employees, while making you think they are paying it to their staff.
Most likely, they pay minimum tipped wage plus $1/hr. They are making $3.13/hr plus tips instead of $2.13/hr plus tips. That’s the higher “base wage” they are talking about.
About $16.75 of that $17.22 service fee goes toward increasing the “base wage”, with the rest counted as income to the restaurant.
This is not the perfect opportunity to say “you already charged me for the service”. This is the perfect opportunity to name and shame this scumbag restaurant for its shitty business practices, and never eat their again.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Allegedly
But I’d that’s the reality, I feel no need to add a tip.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 11 months ago
They probably pay $1/hr over minimum tipped wages. About $0.75 of that $17.22 fee goes to paying that increased wage, and the rest is pocketed.
Gork@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Yeah that’s a pretty shit reason to levy this fee unsuspectingly.
MisterFrog@lemmy.world 11 months ago
In Australia this would be illegal drip pricing. JUST INCLUDE EVERYTHING IN THE PRICE OF THE FOOD! Is it so hard?
Absolutely wild you also don’t add tax in the price in the US.
Is it too much to ask to just be told the price upfront on the menu?
XEAL@lemm.ee 11 months ago
The downvote button is a lazy disagree button, but people is also dumb.