To all the people in the comments being like “Ted had some good points.” Judi Bari, Peter Kropotkin, and Murray Bookchin are all people who have written about environmentalism and the problems of technology, industrialization, and such and better than the reactionary psychopath did. Fascists love the unabomber and use him to normalize eco-fascism. Stop fucking saying he had good points cause there are better authors who have made those same points without all the fucking reactionary and eco-fascism tied to it.
The unAbomber. Otherwise, I agree.
Submitted 22 hours ago by MTZ@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e61c7861-d0aa-4ad7-a196-376d7aff8368.jpeg
Comments
Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 19 hours ago
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
To be clear, he was not an eco fascist, he stood against fascism. But he was en eco terrorist.
Not really enjoying this trend of everything being labelled as “fascism” these days.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 7 hours ago
For real. It waters down the meaning of the word “fascist,” and now when I talk about actual fascism (with a well-informed take because I only use that word when I’m applying it correctly), people don’t take me seriously because they think I’m just “labeling everyone you disagree with as a fascist.”
I’m not. I disagree with everyone I label as a fascist, yes. Because I disagree with fascism and I only label fascists fascists. But I’m perfectly capable of disagreeing with someone without labeling them a fascist, if they’re not a fascist. I do it all the time!
Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 7 hours ago
Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck. I don’t really care if the duck says its not a duck and that it is against ducks, its still a duck. When you go about blaming the lefties (of which he labelled fascists as leftists) and the gays, and envisioning a society that would functionally genocide a bunch of people I am gonna call you a fascist. Cause if we just got rid of technology and returned to primitive living, a lot of people would die. Namely disabled people and people with chronic illnesses. It is indirect eugenics. Its exactly why most anarchists nowadays do not associate with anarcho-primitivists, and call them eco-fascists as well.
The reason why people like Bookchin and Bari are better is because they critique industrialization while putting forward solutions that don’t kill a bunch of people.
And lets not pretend like fascism is this coherent or cohesive ideology. Its an ideology of opportunism. Mussolini and Hitler were vastly different, and even just comparing Mussolini’s writing to his actions there’s a lot of differences. For example Mussolini’s writings were anti-monarchist, yet the monarchy remained in fascist Italy because it gave him an opportunity.
Ted might not have been a fascist ideologically, but his ideology is not incompatible with fascism. And the consequences of his ideology is still genocide, even if indirectly. So maybe rather than fighting over whether it is or isn’t fascism, we should fight it cause it is bad and harmful.
Dragon@lemmy.ml 6 hours ago
In case anyone is interested, I made some videos to help explain both Kropotkin and Bookchin:
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Uhhhhh
Stop fucking saying he had good points cause there are better authors who have made those same points
Doesn’t this inherently imply he does in fact have good points if they’re making the same points… you also make a good point that there’s better sources that don’t come with a ton of ideology baggage but what your saying here is yes he does have good points but read someone else saying his points instead
Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 17 hours ago
Yes that is what I am saying. But just because someone made some good points doesn’t mean we should keep using them as the defacto idealogue. Imagine if we kept saying “Hitler had some good points” when talking about animal rights or Osama Bin Laden for anti-imperialism. If you want an edgy thing to make a meme like this out of, use the ELF or ALF. Two groups that are controversial but lack the eco-fascism narrative of the unabomber.
MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
there are better authors who have made those same points without all the fucking reactionary and eco-fascism tied to it.
Seems like a great reason to discuss Ted’s viewpoints. We should definitely discuss the ineffectual extremists. Compare and contrast. Weigh and measure. That’s what truth-seekers do.
Telling people not to read a particular author borders on censorship. Asking people to expand their reading list and providing actual recommendations - that is wonderful and commendable. Thank you for that!
Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 17 hours ago
I never said don’t read it, but comparing and contrasting is not what is happening. Its like when Osama Bin Laden’s manifesto or whatever was making the rounds and everyone was like “ya know he makes some good points.” Everyone just keeps parroting the points of far-right extremists cause they pointed out a pretty universal issue like imperialism, consumerism, environmental destruction, etc. If the only perspective that gets spread is that of a far-right nutjob, then it normalizes the problematic parts of their perspective. Its always just begins and ends with “the unabomber made some good points.” Not “the unabomber made some good points, but Bookchin is more practical and not a eco-fascist.”
58008@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Has good points… decides the best way to bring those points to the world is planting bombs.
Adam Lanza had some good points about autism (remember when he called into that radio show?). His subsequent expression of his feelings about the world was less than optimal. There’s no need to give the cunt kudos for his insights.
This is some “say what you like about Hitler, but at least he made the trains run on time!” level of vacuous.
FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I mean, you’re not entirely wrong, but TK killed 3 and injured less than 30. Harry Truman killed vastly more people than TK and he’s essentially lauded, as most ex presidents are.
rumba@lemmy.zip 7 hours ago
I’m not saying that bombs were a good or acceptable idea, but I am saying that if it weren’t for the bombs, none of us would have read that manifesto to consider this post.
GladiusB@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Thanos has good points. How he dealt with the problem is the issue.
moakley@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
He was “The Mad Titan”, not “The Reasonable Titan”.
nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de 10 hours ago
Should have doubled the resources!
osanna@lemmy.vg 14 hours ago
yeah, no matter their points, they still killed people. Fuck 'em.
myotheraccount@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Wasn’t that Mussolini?
(Source: xkcd282)
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
A broken clock is right twice a day
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
From what I understand, he was broken by what he was right about.
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 21 hours ago
The longer I work in tech, the more I want to move to a farm 50km from neighbours with just me, my partner, a couple dogs, chickens, and cows.
THE_GR8_MIKE@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
The longer I
work in techexist, the more I want to move to a farm 50km from neighbours with just me, my partner, a couple dogs, chickens, and cows.HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 2 hours ago
It’s a common escapist fantasy but are you equipped to handle the needs of chickens and cows?
MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
“The more I work in tech, the more I wish I was independently wealthy.”
I love how people use the word “just” when making statements about the simple life.
Simple ain’t always cheap…
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 6 hours ago
Simple ain’t easy either. Fix yer plumbing, fix your roof, fix yer fence, feed yer chickens (yes, every day!), clean their poop, etc. etc. etc.
Homesteading is a lot of work, and you can’t just go away for a weekend to visit a friend or explore a new city. It needs constant attention, and the more “independent/self-reliant/off-the-grid” you want to be, the more you need to do everything yourself.
And even then you need to buy supplies and materials. You’re not going to grow a year’s-worth of food in your backyard vegetable patch, and you’re not gonna make your own lumber, pvc, copper wire, etc.
There’s a lot you can do to achieve a greater degree of independence, but ultimately it’s still dependencies all the way down.
Even the Buddha recognized the interconnectedness of everything in the world; he wasn’t just some detached stoic with a community of self-sustaining monks. They depended on the generosity of their surrounding communities, and to this day Buddhist monks still do.
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 18 hours ago
Depends how you live, but yeah. It can be expensive.
ellen.kimble@piefed.social 16 hours ago
I’m in tech and live off grid, best of both worlds
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 16 hours ago
Goals.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
you should look at open land out in deep rural areas.
you’re more likely to kill yourself than get a farm these days.
not since the corporations bought up all the farm land.
ragingHungryPanda@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com 18 hours ago
Around COVID times, I had a coworker who bought a 100+ year old farmhouse out in Minnesota and we could see over time how he was fixing it up. Then he quit and started his homestead. Enviable man.
but yeah, I’ve heard of a lot of people in tech quitting at 20 years, which seems high? but at around 13+ years, I get it. I just don’t really know what I’d go to
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 16 hours ago
I work in tech, but not “retire at 45” tech. I’ll be working till I’m 70.
osanna@lemmy.vg 14 hours ago
I was in tech for more than a decade. I will NEVER go back to it. It’s life sucking shit piled on more shit.
osanna@lemmy.vg 14 hours ago
are you sure you don’t want spyware in your house? Are you sure you don’t want new shinies?! daddy oligarchs told me that was the most important thing in life.
Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
nexguy@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
“its”
FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
The fuck does the rest of it mean tho?
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
The hair change makes him look like Dr. Tenma from Astro Boy.
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Did you know that Northrup Grumman developed the standard USPS mail truck? They also developed the B2 stealth bomber. Northrup never intended for their truck to also be a stealth bomber, but Ted said “I’m about to do what’s called a ‘pro gamer’ move.”
MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Did you know that Northrup Grumman developed the standard USPS mail truck?
This was before the merger. It was just Grumman. They also built the Lunar Module for the Apollo program.
markz@suppo.fi 22 hours ago
Haven’t read unobomber’s manifesto and probably never will because fuck anyone who seeks attention this way.
queermunist@lemmy.ml 21 hours ago
Damn you’re so brave for condemning the unybomber.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Given the 2:1 ratio on that comment it seems like it might actually is a contentious opinion. Maybe the backlash is all due to it being interpreted as virtue signaling, but… there’s so many comments in here unironically praising Ted for his ideas and refraining from commenting on his later actions (or actively justifying them as ex: a way to be taken seriously).
Saapas@piefed.zip 22 hours ago
Unebomber had some valid complaints
Comrade_Spood@quokk.au 19 hours ago
That have been made by much better people who weren’t also eco-fascists.
MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I don’t approve of his methods, either.
Then again, I don’t approve of the Church’s methods, but there’s some pretty good stuff buried in the Christian bible, too.
Reading something doesn’t mean you need to agree with the author. It’s not like people are financially supporting the Unibomber, or excusing his actions, when they read his manifesto. They’re just studying history.
markz@suppo.fi 21 hours ago
The comment was half just an excuse to mispell the name after OP set it up like that.
But from what I’ve heard, I’m not missing much of value, so I’d be reading poorly thought out ramblings of a murderer.
Texas_Hangover@lemmy.radio 21 hours ago
UNObomber? Is that the Mexican knockoff version?
human@slrpnk.net 21 hours ago
markz@suppo.fi 21 hours ago
sidebro@lemmy.zip 22 hours ago
Ted had some good ideas, it’s just how we went about doing what he did I take issue with.
OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
db2@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Unabomer is how the news wrote it.
HikingVet@lemmy.ca 22 hours ago
Wasn’t he mixed up in the white supremacy movement?
Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I was more into his thoughts on women
Norin@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
It’s probably better to read the philosophers Uncle Ted was pulling from (and ultimately failed to understand).
Ellul especially.
dgdft@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Might be a matter of taste, but ISAIF is worth a read on the basis of its wild mix of sociological brilliance and unhingedness IMO. That’s not to say I endorse blowing people up in the slightest, but the work stands taller than the sum of its influences.
E.g. I think he synthesized and added to quite a few different authors in presenting his concept of oversocialization. (Please do correct me if I’m off-base — I love philosophy but it’s not my main wheelhouse).
balderdash9@lemmy.zip 21 hours ago
ISAIF?
Slovene85@sh.itjust.works 18 hours ago
I follow the philosophy of Father Ted.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
“I hear you’re an anarcho-syndicalist now, Father Ted!”
W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 hours ago
Which philosophers?
Norin@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Ted misses a lot in Jacques Ellul’s The Technological Society, which is where I’d start off f your looking for philosophers critical of modern technology.
If you’re curious on that particular subject, I’d also recommend Lewis Mumford’s Myth of the Machine or The City in History.
Or, for something that’s less of a tome (both Ellul and Mumford can be overly wordy), Ivan Illich’s Tools for Conviviality is incredibly critical of the modern world, but also offers hope that isn’t based on mailing bombs to universities.