Instead of everyone leaving NATO, could everyone else just kick the US out?

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• DaddleDew@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Now Excluding America Treaty Organization (NEATO)

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  • dantel@programming.dev ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Neat.

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    • thermal_shock@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      ![encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT…]

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• lime@feddit.nu ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  as far as i understand it, nato does not have any democratic principles in its rules because was assumed that everyone in it wants the same thing, so everything needs to be done with full agreement. that’s why sweden and finland were blocked from entering for multiple years, turkiye would not allow them in.

  so basically, as long as the us wants to be in nato, it will be in nato. better to scrap it and start again. i propose the name na2.

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    i propose the name na2.

    Clever, but I don’t see why it should be limited to North Atlantic countries.
    If for instance Australia and South Korea want to join, that should be an option.

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    • Damage@feddit.it ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I think we should go with GDI, Global Defence Initiative

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    • lime@feddit.nu ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      doesn’t necessarily need to be short for North Atlantic, could be Not America’s no. 2

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  • Klear@quokk.au ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    2na2to

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• cosmicrookie@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  They way I see it, USA can’t be kicked out but it can leave.

  That said I don’t see a problem in making a new NATO, without the US and (hopefully) without veto rights

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  • HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Part of the problem of creating a non-American NATO is that the USA provides a ton of capabilities and logistics that other countries can’t possibly afford.

    It is the reason why there has been a push to create an EU military instead.

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• someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  They want it to survive and outlast Trump. Kicking out the US is Putin’s wet dream.

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  • krashmo@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Russia can’t even handle Ukraine. What are they going to do against the rest of NATO, even without the US?

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    • MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      When the US briefly revoked command and control (think, satellite connections, real time intelligence, missile warning etc) Ukraine suffered heavy casualties quickly. Were thr US to walk away, neither Ukraine or NATO has those same capabilities. NATO minus US vs Russia, in the immediate future would be incredibly bloody and possibly fall in Russia’s favour.

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    • someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      They aren’t going to invade the UK, but they want them out of the EU. You sabotage your enemy as much as possible, even if you’re not going to war immediately. Take down the strongest military alliance (or cut in half if you want) in history that’s been in place for 70 years, yeah that’s a huge massive jizz in your pants accomplisment. Your entire framing is frankly wrong.

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    • Klear@quokk.au ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Break it up using his puppet in the white house.

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• redlemace@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  To my understanding no, not unless they break the rules. (Trump breaking rules is as common as oxygen so who knows)

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• MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It’s one of those symbolic initiatives. There may be an official mechanism but right now, it would be a disaster without NATO. Right now, the US has most of the Command and Control logistics (think constant satellite connection, missiled detection systems etc.) That stuff is super expensive and the assumption was that America was an ally, so not a lot of duplication was built in.

  A NATO without the US dooms Ukraine and presumably, whatever hits of Eastern Europe Putin feels like holding.

  It’s shitty, frustrating and awful but it’s also the grim, current reality. We didn’t realize our allies would become two bit thugs.

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• K1nsey6@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  NATO should be dissolved, it’s an old relic of us imperialism that has no place in society

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  • 14th_cylon@lemmy.zip ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    yes. as a geniune western citizen typing with my western democratic hands, i also support dissolution of nato.

    Image

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    • theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Not everyone outflanking you to the left is a Russian agent.

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    • K1nsey6@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Arrogant liberals always assume they are immune to propaganda. Here you are supporting US imperialism and hegemony, the same things they accuse other nations of doing.

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  • andrewrgross@slrpnk.net ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    GoddlessCommie’s take is valid.

    Nato is the core organizing instrument of western imperialism. Nato is like Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense shield. It’s easy to look at it and say, ‘Well now could anyone object to a tool of defense??’ But if you know anyone about war then you know that establishing an unbreakable defensive capability is what allows an imperial army to slaughter their weaker targets with impunity.

    I’m not co-signing GodlessCommie’s point. But we gotta ask: did you like Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? Korea? Venezuela? Nicaragua? Georgia? Libya? Ukraine? Gaza? Because arguably, all of this shit rests upon the conditions established by NATO and US imperialism. So… It’s not unreasonable to ask whether NATO has actually fostered peace or just fostered peace for the people who wage wars.

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    • bitcrafter@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Could you explain exactly how NATO and US imperialism led to Russia invading Ukraine?

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  • Steve@communick.news ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    The most downvoted and most upvoted comments say the same thing g.
    People are werid.

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    • ji59@hilariouschaos.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Because the most upvoted one thinks NATO is a good thing, but since one unreliable country cannot be kicked out, it should be replaced with another alliance with slight changes. This comment just says NATO BAD.

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• makyo@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I don’t know how useful NATO is without the USA. The EU, for instance, also has a mutual defense clause.

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  • MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Cries in Canadian

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    • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      We’re doing what we can: Canada signs deal deepening European defence and security partnership

      Canada and Europe were drawn a little closer together Monday after Prime Minister Mark Carney signed a strategic defence and security partnership with the European Union.

      The agreement opens the door for Canadian companies to participate in the $1.25-trillion ReArm Europe program, which is seen as a step toward making Canada less reliant on — and less vulnerable to — the whims of the United States.

      Eventually, it will also help the Canadian government partner with other allied nations to buy military equipment under what’s known as the SAFE program.

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    • Korhaka@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I am sure you can be invited if we all drop NATO.

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• altphoto@lemmy.today ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Just leave NATO and have a secret one without telling us at all.

  All we would see is things like “the leaders of such and such had a meeting Wednesday at whatever place”

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  • whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    With blackjacks and …!

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  • ViatorOmnium@piefed.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That wouldn’t solve the immediate problem, which is adversarial officers being infiltrated at all levels of our defense structures.
    NATO is much more than government meetings, it has permanent structures that serve as the foundation of European security.
    If our leaders were not complete idiots there would be a second foundation built around the EU, but the Common Security and Defence Policy is nowhere near ready to replace NATO yet.

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  • thehowlingnorth@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    You-know-who invited us to secret wink-wink at the you-know-what.

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• givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I saw France had proposed an initiative to withdraw because of the US’ shenanigans…

  Where?

  France is leading NATO air and ground troops this year, and I didn’t see anything about France leaving NATO when I just checked.

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  • RyanDownyJr@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    French Lawmaker Files NATO Withdrawal Bid Over Greenland

    ground.news/…/french-lawmaker-files-nato-withdraw…

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    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Clémence Guetté, Vice President of France’s National Assembly, submitted a parliamentary resolution calling for France to withdraw from NATO’s integrated command structure, citing President Trump’s threats to seize Greenland from NATO ally Denmark as evidence the US-led alliance threatens world peace.

      So one politician from France submitted a resolution in the French gverbment to do it.

      And you…

      You honestly and legitimately think that is the same thing as:

      I saw France had proposed an initiative to withdraw because of the US’ shenanigans

      Like, you didn’t just go and try to find a source but didn’t read it. You just don’t understand how what that says and what you said are vastly different things?

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  • Quadhammer@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    shenanigans

    Our shenanigans are cheeky and fun

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• mrdown@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  There is no provision and formal mechanism to expel a member state

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• dogbert@lemmy.zip ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Destabilizing the world is so much better when America isn’t involved 🥰🥰

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  • AmidFuror@fedia.io ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    What we need is to concentrate power into the hands of a single benevolent ruler with absolute authority. I suggest Winnie the Pooh.

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• itisileclerk@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  US will leave NATO.

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• theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Or you know maybe we should abolish this bad institution.

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