I’m pissed off someone did this to me without my consent as a baby.
Circumcision classed as possible child abuse in draft CPS document
Submitted 3 weeks ago by RubberDuck@lemmy.world to unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
Comments
karashta@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
That’s such an understatement but we’re taught it’s normal
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
How has it harmed you? I’m also circumcised, and it’s only helped me.
Valorie12@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You have fewer nerve endings in your penis. I’m curious how it’s helped you.
Diddlydee@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
‘possible’
Cutting a bit from an unconsenting baby’s body. It’s insane.
CannonFodder@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Shouldn’t cut the umbilical cord either without consent from the baby.
harmbugler@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
The umbilical cord falls off on its own after some days. It’s different.
Jumbie@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Good. Stop mutilating babies.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I highly doubt this will happen, unfortunately.
All it takes is certain lobbyists and press saying it’s anti-Semitic and islamophobic and it’ll be dropped in a heartbeat.
Fingers crossed, though.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
We should make gelding legal, for people who think circumcision should be legal.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 weeks ago
The UK possibly doing something good? What timeline is this.
FundMECFS@quokk.au 3 weeks ago
Broken clock yadda yadda.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The UK has been doing plenty of good, just look at the workers rights bill, renter’s rights bill, expansion of free school meals, expansion of breakfast clubs, massive increase in infrastructure investment, banning single use vapes, massive increase in tree plantations, massive increase in green energy/nuclear projects, big increase in pothole-filling, nationalisation of rail, quasi-nationalisation of steel production, large increases in the minimum wage, getting closer to Europe again, etc.
It’s just that there’s also been a handful of bad things (e.g. OSA and other bits). And we all know what the billionaire-owned press and social media who are desperate to get the Tories/Reform in will focus on.
then_three_more@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Don’t worry, our government will somehow manage to make everyone hate the idea then I turn on it in 6 months.
Horsey@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
This needs to go the way of foot binding. It’s such an evil practice.
Horsey@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone
The procedure literally deletes the most sensitive nerve endings in the penis. Best case scenario is that the boy is left with the sensitivity of an intact penis with the foreskin pulled back and 2 condoms put on. Many many guys end up with less sensitivity than that if their frenulum is removed (the banjo string; the most sensitive area).
whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I prefer to cut the pinky finger off of infants instead. It hasn’t hurt them at all not having a pinky finger, it’s not the whole hand just the tip. And it’s not just cosmetic because I dislike pinky fingers aesthetically, it’s healthier too, do you know how many people get pinky finger infections every year?
FishFace@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
I don’t see how this will see the light of day given sensitivity towards Judaism at the moment. Unfortunately a lot of people think that anything which conflicts a religion has a different standard and that a little bit of abuse is then ok.
MouldyCat@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
sensitivity towards Judaism at the moment
Judaism and (some of?) its daughter religions - Islam also carries out this practice, and if anything Islam is even more protected by the state.
As many know, Islam also carries out FGM, which is indisputably worse for the victim than male circumcision. Now, there is already a specific criminal offence for FGM, strengthened by the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003. This makes it illegal to perform FGM in the UK or to take a UK national or permanent resident abroad for FGM.
In over 20 years, only a handful of cases have been brought to trial. The first successful conviction for FGM in the UK did not happen until 2019, and even now there are typically less than 10 prosecutions per year. There are thousands of cases identified every year, (but it’s not often clear how many of those are recent).
My point is that while this suggested new law is welcome, it is unlikely to result in any significant reduction in religious child mutilation.
crapwittyname@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
Wait wait wait… Islam is more protected by the state? Can you go into detail a bit there please?
FishFace@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
FGM is a relatively rare practice (it’s not mainstream in Islam as a whole) and so outlawing it doesn’t a bunch of mainstream doctors and religious leaders to go “you know what, it’s not worth going to jail” whereas a circumcision ban very well could
But my point was that currently the government is very sensitive about antisemitism and less sensitive about islamophobia. Maybe this was always the case, but it certainly is right now, so for that reason a change like this isn’t going to happen at the moment
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Just say arabs do it. /s
blimthepixie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
How can they defend Metzitzah B’Peh though?
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Fucking finally!
GarboDog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It should be illegal, thank goodness it’s finally being considered
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It shouldn’t be any more illegal than any harmless cosmetic procedure.
The last thing you want is unsupervised and unsanitary procedures done by a religious zealot.
Outlawing circumcision sends you down the same road as outlawing ear piercings or abortions. You’re guaranteed to do more harm than good.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
It is not a “harmless cosmetic procedure.” It’s more akin to ritual scarification or removing something like a lip, eyelid, or nose. It destroys nerve endings, causing a permanent loss of sensitivity, and the head of the penis is a mucus membrane that the foreskin is meant to keep moist and protect from damage. Most people had it done before they were old enough to be aware of the difference, but those who had it done later in life often report things like a reduction in the ability to feel sexual pleasure.
Medically necessary circumcision or somebody choosing to have it done is one thing, forcing an amputation onto a baby is entirely different. It’s like forcing a trans person to go through the wrong puberty: unwanted and permanent physical changes that can take years of therapy and medical procedures to heal from.
Potatar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The topic is child (cannot consent, hell in some cases cannot talk yet because too young) circumcision, you are talking about puberty+(can semi-consent: can decide who to live with in family seperation for example) issues?
I agree about the black market but perfect is the enemy of good?
Wilco@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It should not be legal. It is a cosmetic surgery forced upon children.
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
BS argument.
And the woman should have their vagina mutilated too for the same then right?
Let’s clear the roads between 8-10 PM so we can have some car racing and donuts.
And take your now legal guns and drugs too, we can have a fun evening of supervised shooting and meth!michaelmrose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Can you legally get any other cosmetic surgery on a less than 1 yr old?
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Do you think Kid Starver will get permission from his boss Santanyahoo?
stenAanden@feddit.dk 3 weeks ago
YES PLEASE!
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
My atheist parents had me circumcised because at the time it was recommended for “health reasons”, and was common to do so at the time.
I suppose this means I was a victim of child abuse?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending circumcision, and my son isn’t for what that’s worth. But, They need to be careful how they word this law.
stenAanden@feddit.dk 3 weeks ago
You were but it’s not your parents’ fault
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
If your parents had instead started a dramatic stretched piercing, would you see it differently? What if they made a pretty scarification pattern on your back?
It is abuse, because it’s a permanent body modification with no medical purpose for which the child has not given consent. I think that for cultural reasons there does need to be protection so that estranged children who were snipped “for medical reasons” back in the day can’t go back and sue their parents, but the word “abuse” is accurate.
Religious or not.
MontyGommo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
I’m in a similar boat (circumcised, kiddos aren’t). I do wish I wasn’t from a… sensitivity perspective? But I can’t argue about the ease of keeping it clean, and how pretty it looks all the time!
Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 weeks ago
Gonna let you in on a secret, but uncut dicks aren’t hard to clean, like at all.
And as for aesthetics, I much prefer them but that’s purely subjective. Some people like prince alberts, so I’m not gonna judge.
Diddlydee@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
How many cocks are you washing for comparison?
AlmightyDoorman@kbin.earth 3 weeks ago
Ease of keeping it clean? So you wash your dick? Because that doesnt change wether your are circumcised or not...
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yeah, Same boat.
Let’s talk about how woman literally prefer it. No, really. Let’s talk about this.
Lemmy and Reddit are full of white knights trying to fight for people who have no qualms with this.
thatradomguy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So where do we draw the line? Does it still make sense then to force children/infants w/ ear piercings without their consent?
mholiv@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
We draw the line before both. Easy as.
No piercings before the child can understand the concept of piercings and agree to it.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
…that’s legal? and businesses will actually do it?
Spacehooks@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Yes, I was there when mom did it for sister Before she could walk. Mom was peer pressured into doing it by her family. Best part is 2 decades sister doesn’t wear jewelry. Total waste of time just like I told mom.
BunScientist@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
ear piercings, so I’m pretty sure they are talking about earrings.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
An ear piercing is fully reversible, though.
kazerniel@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s not fully reversible. I had it done with the “gun” method as a young child, and I spent years without using earrings and the hole never completely closed.
jaybone@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
I’m curious, how do Jews and Muslims feel about these laws?
explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I can only imagine. It’s my religious belief to kick the baby in the face.
solomonschuler@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I’ve said this to my Jewish family countless of times how unethical the practice is. After all, I saw a statistic which said 70000 Jewish babies die each year from urinary tract infection because of this ritualistic performance.
To me, for someone who stopped believing 3 years ago, I’ve waited for this ban to happen.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Fuck them. Christans do it too.
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I’m curious, how do two huge groups with myriad subsects and differences between each other feel about these laws?
— you, right now
kazerniel@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I wonder if there’s a way to figure that out… Maybe try reading the article?
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So Kid Starver may have to learn to suck uncut zionist dick?
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I do worry this will turn out yet another case of “Right Thing, Wrong Reason” like the gov keep fucking doing, again and again
Red Tories appealing to bigotry rather than cause unnecessary mutilation is a bad thing
floppybiscuits@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sadly just anti Muslim hate more than anything else
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The reason it’s not illegal is that another religion does it, and they have way more clout.
0x0@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
They can choose to do it once they’re over 18.
xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 3 weeks ago
Well, yeah. I mean, take a step back and forget about religious justifications and appeals to some nebulous ‘tradition’ for a moment. If I ran around and took a scalpel to the genitals of baby boys without a valid medical reason, I’d hopefully swiftly find myself locked up for a long, long time.
fartsparkles@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
It’s genital mutilation. It’s been done for religious reasons, cultural reasons, social reasons, for slavery reasons, and more.
But cutting up babies’ genitals for any reason except medical intervention for relevant pathologies is genital mutilation.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I’ve had it done to me. It’s only helped me.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But there is a medical reason! It’s to make masturbation bothersome. It would really upset the humors you know.
CannonFodder@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Didn’t work on me.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
This is like telling people who get wisdom teeth extractions have been mutilated.
Naw. We’re okay.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I don’t think that’s a valid comparison. For people who need wisdom teeth extractions, leaving them in can end up painful and for some even leave them with unable to fully close their mouths too chew.
Nothing bad is going to happen if you leave a babies penis alone.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
If you want to go the teeth route, removing the molars or canines is a better comparison. There are medical reasons why this might be necessary, but to rip out a baby’s teeth that have yet to grow in with a pair of pliers for ritualistic reasons is not the same thing at all.
Circumcision destroys nerve endings and can cause permanent scarring, potentially dramatically reducing the ability to feel sensations. The head of the penis is also a mucus membrane and the foreskin is meant to both keep it moist and protect it from damage. Have you ever had dry eyes or the inside of your nose dry out? Imagine cutting off the outside of your nostrils or part of your eyelids so that it was like that all the time.
If somebody wants to have it done, that’s fine. That’s their choice to make, just like getting a tattoo or piercings is. But forcing it on somebody without it being strictly necessary for medical reasons is cruel. It can be very traumatic. If it wasn’t, “foreskin restoration” - the act of using clamps, pulleys, and rubber bands to stretch the skin of the penis out into a fake foreskin - wouldn’t be a thing.
SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
I still have an impacted wisdom tooth, and it’s okay. Everybody should keep theirs.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well, of course, that’s crazy behaviour.
But if you did it in a religious ritualistic ceremony and sucked the blood off the tip of the babies dicks afterwards, well that wouldn’t be weird now, would it.
You could even call it “Metzitzah B’peh” and it would happen so regularly and kids would get herpetic infections from the mohel’s so often (sometimes even dying that the New York Health department would have to issue warnings about it, and it would still not be weird, even when the families of the babies affected would refuse to name the mohel’s to allow the health dept to investigate and have them banned from performing the practice on future babies.