Expect specialist "open" hardware capable of installing any software/OS to become increasingly expensive, while increasingly locked-down, mass-produced consumer hardware remains at current price. You only need to look at TVs for an example of this - try finding a recent non-smart TV at a reasonable price as the cheap models are all subsidised by the revenue from pushing ads into your face.
How long do we have before PCs get locked bootloaders and corporations ban installation of "non-approved" software? (for context: Google is restricting sideloading worldwide on Android ETA 2027)
Submitted 11 hours ago by DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works to [deleted]
Comments
magnetichuman@fedia.io 1 hour ago
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Microsoft is already starting to lay the groundwork with their CPU and TPM 2.0 requirements.
Apple has been doing this for a long time, though there are ways to get around it on MacOS, for now.
On PC, the answer is Linux. For mobile devices, things are looking more bleak.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 hours ago
Linux won’t be an option if the boot loader is locked. I think Linux is just about popular enough that options should remain but they might become reduced unless it becomes more popular than it currently is.
nul9o9@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 hours ago
I’d imagine not every mobo manufacturer will play ball with whoever mandates a locked bootloader.
Right now, we have google and apple with a duopoly on mobile devices.
derpgon@programming.dev 2 hours ago
Linux is heavily used on servers. Losing server sector means a huge chunk of revenue.
StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 5 hours ago
It’s been done before. ChromeBooks comes to mind, but there have been others. Usually winds up killing the outfit that tries it.
As far as I know Chromebooks only survive because of the educational market. Locked down devices are preferable in schools.
I won’t buy one, but I could see such systems becoming dominant in another 20 years or so.
anothernobody@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
With Linux being the standard for server systems there is no way to force locked bootloaders everywhere without making the whole web and a lot of companies collapse. But I expect more limitations regarding desktop systems. It’s hard to tell at this point because it’s a complex issue, not only from an economical but also political point of view (Mass surveillance).
SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Don’t I own this hardware? Can I not do what I want with it?
BroiledShit@reddthat.com 9 hours ago
No, because fuck you. Ownership is for pussies, do you really want to own what you buy? Just buy a new one if you have problems. my hope is that we eventually get to a point where you cant even build your own PC. Gaming PCs all built by Nvidia woth the latest Geforce built in to the motherboard. With a subscription fee to use it, im talking cheap like only $20/month. and then in a year it can sleep gently in a landfill. Oh and a feature that sets your house on fire and mangles your genitals. and if you try to turn that off, you get sued. it was in the TOS, just dont use a computer if that bothers you, shithead. the future is bright.
anothernobody@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
You own the hardware but not the software.
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 9 hours ago
Without software access it is useless until you are able to jailbreak it.
Which is technically a breach of contract at the very least and could be deemed IP theft by a brain dead USian judge.
So you can't even commercialize your solution because capitalism works 1 way.
otter@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
Your account is marked as a bot by the way, you can fix that in your user settings
anothernobody@lemmy.world 25 minutes ago
I already did, but thanks nonethless.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 hours ago
Just use Linux?
derpgon@programming.dev 2 hours ago
It is entirely possible to lock down computer parts to only run Windows and signed drivers. However, the sheer amount of available computer parts, open sourced hardware, widely understood technologies, and not enough monopoly makes this unfeasible for anyone to really try to implement (yet).
If Intel started doing Windows only, they would lose so much revenue from big corporations and data centers it would ruin them, and everyone would just buy AMD instead. Consumer market in computer sector is secondary.
For phones, you really do not have enough alternatives. You choose between evil and more evil. Think of it as Linux in it’s starting days - missing features that makes it unusable for the common folk. Linux phones haven’t matured yet, that’s why you have to choose between feature rich vs heavily degraded user experience, as opposed to minor inconvenience of not being able to run some apps.
calamityjanitor@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
It’s called secure boot and it’s been around for over 10 years now.
SkavarSharraddas@gehirneimer.de 8 hours ago
And the first iteration was much more locked down, only got changed after public complaints.
mugita_sokiovt@discuss.online 8 hours ago
I think that’s because of GPL-2, which had allowance (unintentional) for Tivoization, which is what Secure Boot is a form of from what I read. I might be wrong on that, though.
GPL-3 fixed the Tivoization, though.
blargh513@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
It will creep in slowly since most people dont touch any settings on their computer after the initial unboxing and setup.
Big box retailers will offer discounts on them, much like how you can buy a Chromebook for very little.
Enticed by cheap computers, people will buy not knowing that any limitations exist. They’ll be encouraged to use centralized app repositories but they can still install some other stuff.
A year or two later, some things won’t be permitted, computer will make scary warnings when installing, but with enough clicking, you can get past. Until the day you can’t.
It will be a progression, but it will happen eventually. I honestly am surprised that computers dont require some sort of registration. I’m sure that will happen eventually.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
Windows does require registration to any normal user at this point. Gotta setup a micrisper account
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 1 hour ago
It’s not required, it just seems required to non-technical people (I know, potato/potato, it’s effectively required).
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
Isn’t the serial number already on the box? So its already scanned into a database then you checkout? I know for phones at least, they definitely scan the barcode with the imei at checkout
gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 5 hours ago
Such pcs already exist and are used by buinesses and schools all over… Mostly chromebooks and i suppose apple also fits that criteria.
But it would be very hard to stop a determined hacker who has physical access to a device and doesnt mind voiding any warranties or user agreements.
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Most Chromebooks can have other operating systems. Many have a bypass, mine needed to have the battery disconnected from the motherboard while installing the os, then you could connect it back and be done.
gravitywell@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
yes most chromebooks if you own them you do what you want because google knows even if they did lock them down more someone out there would be waiting with a soldering iron to figure out how to mod them into running other things. But thats not the same thing as a company that buys devices for their employees and doesnt give said employees permission to open them (without risking their job anyway). The point being, the “demand” for such systems is already mostly met, normal PC users/ gamers wouldnt actually buy a product like that, because if they did it would just be a “Console”. You couldnt force it on users because there isn’t a monopoly of PCs like there is with phones or game consoles
Actually I should have said in my original post, Game Consoles also qualify, because the PS4/5 Xbox whatever, the last 2 generations they’re literally just locked down PCs with very specific hardware.
TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
This is what happened when we allowed companies with a profit incentive to code our devices. Linux will always be free, and there will be companies that design computers for Linux, such as Fairphone, Framework, Furi, and probably some that don’t start with F too
bryndos@fedia.io 7 hours ago
That's probably why risc-v is getting quite popular in embedded stuff - smaller companies wanting more supply chain independence.
Hopefully it'll start to get more powerful soon for more serious computing.
Its nice that stuff like debian now has risk-v version too.MotoAsh@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Nahhhhhh that’s far more interesting in cause. Moore’s law has been dead for like… I dunno’, at least a decade by now? Bigger and bigger instruction sets have similarly hit their max return on investment. RISC-V is making a comeback solely because it’s literally competative now that frequency and even fancy inctructions have long since tapped out for performance gains.
Especially with GPU compute becoming more and more of a thing since DX11+. Parallel computation has become more and more of a well understood task with great ROI while increasing single threaded performance has been a wizard’s game for yeeeaaaaars.
chocrates@piefed.world 7 hours ago
Linux on the phone has come a long way I hear. I have been meaning to buy one and see if it can be my daily driver. Google being shitty would definitely push me there
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
There’s also Europe, which has led the way in regulating against monopolistic power for Big Tech.
warm@kbin.earth 10 hours ago
We already have that. A reason they want to shift to ARM is so they can lock the hardware down.
Luffy879@lemmy.ml 3 hours ago
Google is not restricting Sideloading.
Its the same way Apple is doing it. You just need to buy a Signaturen from them via ID, and you have to sign every app.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
They are not restricting it, they are just adding these restrictions to doing it
nul9o9@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 hours ago
They’ll have the power to revoke the ability to install any app for any reason. On top of the chilling affect on developing foss apps.
sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
Android is opensource. ROM developers like lineageos should be able to create nornal ROMs with sideload enabled
Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
This is only relevant as long as someone is selling hardware with an unlockable bootloader. The scenario where that isn’t the case in a few years is unfortunately realistic.
boydster@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
The scrolls tell of a new geohot that will come along and jailbreak again to save us all…
Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 hours ago
Not really realistic at all. There’s a market for unlocked devices, and where there’s money, there’ll be a way.
barnaclebutt@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Bank software is the issue.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
…And have them able to run on zero consumer devices if the bootloaders are locked, and the manufacturers refuse to sign their ROMs for them. (Hint: they will refuse to sign their ROMs for them.)
bacon_pdp@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
That is already a thing in ARM laptops
foggy@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
I imagine this will actually create competition. Android is open source. It can be forked.
warm@kbin.earth 5 hours ago
The question is, who wants to fork and maintain android? That's a massive undertaking, one that wouldn't seem worth it until it started getting meaningful percentages of market share.
floo@retrolemmy.com 10 hours ago
As long as it takes for the corporate manufacturer trace what you’re doing here and use this post to kill you
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 9 hours ago
An interesting take for somebody shit posting on fedi...
floo@retrolemmy.com 9 hours ago
Interesting because I made a valid point, and your best comeback is gaslighting a tantrum.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 59 minutes ago
Too late to do this for PCs. You already have Linux laptop providers and Linux distros supported by corporations. Most of the components have multiple providers. You will be able to source “unlocked” hardware from somewhere.
The problem with mobile is that the hardware is too complicated for open source projects to handle. Many have tried, all have failed. So far. Hopefully we will finally see something usable come out of projects like PinePhone and PostmarketOS.
Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 12 minutes ago
Has Fairphone failed in this regard, in your opinion?
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 50 minutes ago
let me tell you about this little thing called windows 11.
I know for a fact that this is exactly where compute is going, just look at the aggressive moves that MS has been making over the last 15-25 years.
it starts with requiring an always on connection, and ends with hardware lockout like Mac has.
sure Linux will be an option… but for how much longer? all the old devs are retiring and the new ones…god help us. they want to rewrite it like any greenhorn, and they want to use…rust??!
I give it 10-15 years before hardware locks out Linux, and Linux is dying.
I’m a Linux user btw, so don’t think I’m a MS or Mac fan.
vane@lemmy.world 10 minutes ago
Just to add on top of that I think Linux will be good as long as Torvalds is alive. After that who knows what would happen. They might add binaries to mainstream kernel that lock you out and who can stop them ? We are lucky we live in times where we have a choice.
Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 11 minutes ago
Moat of servers run Linux, and servers are just computers.