Submitted 1 day ago by Tiffany1994@lemmy.cafe to [deleted]
They are citing ONS figures of excess deaths as proof the vaccines are killing people. I tried to explain that not being able to get a doctor’s appointment, staying home and getting fat, etc explain the figures (official sources have said it too) but they said it’s “gaslighting” and then said their family doctor wouldn’t get the vaccine.
“Bye.”
Then leave and stay gone.
You can’t logic someone out of something they didn’t logic themselves into, and they definitely got emotionally attached to antivax before they found “statistics” to back shit up.
This is the answer.
You can’t reason someone out of an unreasonable position.
The only response is to ask them what evidence they would require to change their position.
They’ll inevitably reveal that their assertions are merely beliefs because it’s not practically possible to prove nor disprove them.
A lot of people are saying cut them off, but I have a family member who was into the anti-vax conspiracy theories and kinda still is, but it’s much less of a focus now and is pretty obviously just being carried forward by cognitive dissonance at this point. There will never be total victory, but there can be a reasonable truce.
What I’d suggest is the most counter-intuitive strategy - show genuine interest. Say “Ok, I want to know more, but I need you to be specific. Tell me what your theory is and what the evidence is, I’ll take my time looking at it, and respond in detail.”
Keep in mind, they probably won’t pay attention to whatever your respond with. That’s ok. The response isn’t the point, pinning them down on what they think is. So often these things are purely emotional, and forcing them into a logical framework will make them do the work for you. As for the response, odds are it’s some combination of cherry-picked data and spurious correlations, if not outright made up facts.
You’re not going to satisfy unmet emotional needs with logical arguments.
So often these things are purely emotional, and forcing them into a logical framework will make them do the work for you.
This is a good point. While I was recruiting, they used to say that people make decisions based on emotion and then later go back and try to use logic to explain why they did it.
I have been also suggesting to these people I meet in the real world that it’s probably the micro-plastics that are causing the rise in deaths/autism/whatever bullshit they say. I’m trying to get them to focus on more environmental stuff and blaming companies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not everything requires a response and at some point you have to pick your battles. They have revealed to you they are an idiot. It is not your job to fix them.
Seriously, I’ve had multiple conversations with my BIL where he comes over to me and says something insane, and my response is just “huh okayyy…” and I walk away without saying anything else. I don’t care to be polite anymore.
Sometimes the best response is no response at all. Silence can be deafening.
I’m often a dick. I probably wouldn’t say anything immediately, and then use that asinine opinion to dismiss anything else the person says later. Forever. They say something about <whatever topic>, “Yeah, but you also think vaccines kill people, so we already know you are an idiot.” Just on repeat on every opinion they voice, until they never want to say anything around me or talk to me.
It depends on how invested you are in their health. I wouldn’t do that to my mother, for instance.
Yup. This is the answer.
It’s been three years, where are all the bodies? Where are the people crying out for their lost loved ones?
Oh that’s right, the ones who died, died of disease and you can talk to their families online and learn about what happened.
You stop speaking to them.
They’ll either come to realize that there are real world consequences for being a dumb asshole, like their friends and family abandoning them…or they won’t. Either way, you win.
I heard You’ll die in six months at Thanksgiving one year.
“Really? Holy fuck, I’m immortal! Call the press! Wait, no, I don’t want to be locked in a room and tested for 40 years, maybe we all just keep this our little secret.”
I love this popular and ass-backwards depiction of medical research because in reality it’s boring af sitting around in some clinic, they probably draw some blood and you’re free to go after an hour with a stipend.
I generally reframe it from a perspective even they think they understand: Money.
Governments want their money. Less Population = Less Taxes for them to take, ergo, no government is trying to lower their population. And do they, the audience, think that the government is willing to have less money?
I don’t think so!
Agree with them. Tell them that yes indeed there is a deep state that wants to kill as many people as possible by spreading disinformation causing morons not to take the vaccines so more stupid people die. It’s eugenics really and very, very heinous. Wait wasn’t that what they meant?
Tell them that you’re a sheeple, and got the safe dose of the vaccine, since they want to keep the compliant people around. Too bad they’re on “the list”.
You just stop talking to them entirely. Sorry.
I had this problem.
I stopped talking to them.
Maybe not the answer you’re looking for, but I have an uncle like that.
I suggest going no contact if you can.
Reason being, they don’t care about facts, nothing you say will convince them.
Punch them in the fucking face and 300 kick their asses out the door
I’ve had about 9 boosters at this point, and my nuts are so swollen from spike proteins that when I go to Walmart, they accuse me of trying to steal basketballs.
Disengage and choose your family
Tell them that’s completely true, and that if they keeps spreading the truth the black vans will come for them, they know to much.
The birds have already heard the rumors, and the clock if ticking. They better do something and shut up before they end un in “the facility”.
You could agree, that there are those internationally trying to kill members of the general public. Not with vaccinations, but with misinformation. Anyone they can convince, has a chance to die. Tell them to not be a stupid lemming.
I knew several people who died from COVID and one died from health complications later. I know my reality, but I guess others may need to face death directly to learn the hard lesson.
Ask for the comparison in excess deaths comparison of vaccinated versus unvaccinated.
Don’t bother. Anything bad you say will be dismissed as a ‘smear’ campaign against that person because ‘they’ (big pharma, the millions of scientists who are all in on “it”) don’t want you to know and they’ll just shut off against you. Just take a step back from the dolt.
“How to speak to a vaccine sceptic: research reveals what works Hesitancy about vaccinations is on the rise, but studies show there are specific ways to address people’s questions.”
www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01771-z
Optimistic, but a start maybe.
In summary of the nature article:
Listen and be interested in why they hold those opinions, use motivational interviewing techniques (I explain this as Inception, trying to get the patient to have the ideas) and provide solid evidence, be realistic about data and certainty, ie the MMR vaccine is safe (and doesn’t cause autism) the COVID vaccine has less data as it’s newer, but it is still safer for the vast majority of people than COVID.
What’s the best way to respond to a family member who says the COVID vaccines are being used to depopulate?
“You are a fucking idiot” usually does the job.
“That is a fucking idiotic idea.”
Attacks the idea, not the person. Probably will be the same result, because they probably were a fucking idiot to believe that stuff, and they are very attached to stupid ideas.
Attacks the idea, not the person
Well anti-vax are idiots so there is that.
Probably will be the same result
Precisely. If someone is an idiot, they won’t understand the difference anyway.
Sever ties. I’m sorry.
good idea, i’m sure they’ll get better on their own
Every time he lies about vaccines you break one of his fingers and tell him lying is bad for his health.
Try Bayes’ theorem. Ask them to give percent likelihoods for the following:
A. The odds that the government (or whoever) is trying to kill everyone, before taking the evidence of excess deaths into account
B. The odds of seeing excess deaths for any possible reason, not just their conspiracy hypothesis
C. The odds of seeing excess deaths if the conspiracy hypothesis were true.
Then logically, the odds of the conspiracy being real given the excess deaths should be A*C/B. If you disagree on the outcome, you must disagree on one or more of the assumptions (probably A—if it’s B, you can find the objective odds by checking historical data).
If you still disagree on the prior assumption (A), you can set aside the excess deaths argument and ask what other evidence led them to form that prior assumption. Then you can repeat the process until you either reach agreement or they’re left with an assumption with no evidence.
…You are asking people who… willfully choose to be idiots to… do science?
I mean, you do you, but at the point someone is willing to believe “the top scientists in the world are trying to get you killed” you might as well consider them lost, as they are ignoring elementary-level statistics.
People are different and respond to the same message differently depending on the source. OP might have an in with their loved one and therefore a chance of changing their minds.
You can’t use logic to talk someone out of a position they didn’t use logic to get into in the first place
Well, not with that attitude.
Are people still talking about Covid vaccines? Aren’t there new conspiracies to move onto. How about Biden being a robot?
“Ok, pass the chicken please.”
Lasherz12@lemmy.world 1 day ago
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“If you think the world’s top scientists are trying to kill you, then why would you listen to any expert about anything? They’ll save you from yourself when you’re wrong anyway. Would you do the same for them? That’s why they’re trustworthy, and you and your sources are not.”