I’m a biochemist and I think the periodic table is easy to memorize. Hydrogen, blah blah blah, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen" and that’s it. Wait, hold on, sodium and chlorine are also on there somewhere…
"Now everyone will have an easy reference table at hand!"
Submitted 3 months ago by The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/43c6cc95-0a1f-4443-9d4b-2824d7991859.jpeg
Comments
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
ornery_chemist@mander.xyz 3 months ago
Phosphorus, sulfur, …?
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I don’t like to talk about cysteine.
The_v@lemmy.world 3 months ago
My undergrad biochemistry course was taught team taught by a microbiologist and a molecular biologist because the biochemist got fired for sexually harassing a few students.
The molecular biologist was a cool guy and taught concepts. I got an easy A in that section.
The next few weeks were taught by the microbiologist. That asshole wanted us to memorize a ton of different pathways on our second midterm (cyclic acid, fermentations, photosynthetic, MAPK etc…). Something like 20 total. I took an F on that one.
Luckily the final was a standardize test that all universities in the state used that year. So I ended up with a B.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
I don’t understand the “memorize the pathways” style of teaching.
I’m not one of those people who says “Why memorize anything when you can look it up?” That doesn’t generally work because (1) you need to know that a fact exists at all before you can look it up, (2) a lot of problem-solving is done by your subconscious, which of course can’t look up anything, and (3) often you can’t see the big picture until you have learned enough of the pieces, even though learning the pieces seems like arbitrary memorization while you still don’t know enough of them.
However, I don’t see any point in memorizing lists of arbitrary alphanumerical protein names. Knowing the pathway’s purpose, inputs and outputs, and any key intermediates is sufficient. I can’t think of any scenario where a pathway isn’t the focus of your research but being able to recall the names of all the enzymes and the order in which they act (as opposed to looking them up) is useful.
lengau@midwest.social 3 months ago
In astrophysics it’s even easier.
Hydrogen, other.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
God must really love hydrogen.
wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Do you guys have to memorize fluorine too?
It’s been a decade since I took chemistry, and I did not get very good marks in it, but it seems like the elements at the bottom of the table (with exception to Uranium and Plutonium) are just hanging out while the top elements do all the work.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Fluorine is extremely rare in biological systems. (I was going to say “never” but I looked it up and apparently there are a couple of exotic compounds that have it.) However, fluorine is a component of many man-made drugs and poisons. Halogens are generally not incorporated directly into bio-molecules, with iodine in thyroid hormones as an important exception, but chlorine plays a very important role in biology as a free, negatively charged ion.
Some heavier, metallic elements in the form of ions are necessary for the function of many enzymes, but biological systems can’t work with chemically bound metals the way that human technology can. I looked up what the heaviest element with a biological role is and the answer is apparently tungsten (although I’ve never come across an enzyme incorporating tungsten during the course of my work) but even heavier metals can act as poisons by taking the place of lighter, catalytically active metals in enzymes.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 months ago
If it’s too big to be created in self sustaining fusion it’s too big to give a shit about.
norimee@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We had the periodic table in huge letters on the wall of our chemistry classroom. Wouldbe difficult to not allow students to use it during tests.
One of my nursing school teachers used to say “You don’t have to know everything, you just have to know where to look it up.” I always thought that’s very good and practical advice.
dev_null@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Same.
So during the test the teacher listed element names out loud with no pauses, and you were supposed to write down the symbol while she was speaking, and then another list in reverse. After the last element we had to immediately put the pens down. Whole test took ~45 seconds for 30 elements.
This was so that it was impossible to read from the big table on the wall, you had no time to look away from the paper. You’d miss the next 3 elements by the time you looked away to find the one.
norimee@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Honestly, that sounds insane. And incompetent.
Whoever made this a requirement did not have in mind to give you a good and useful education.
SpiceyDejarik@lemm.ee 3 months ago
I was a chemistry major in college. The tests all came with a periodic table for reference. Didn’t have to memorize a thing. We were even allowed to use calculators! High school was full of lies.
MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We had to memorize that entire fucking thing in highschool…
kireotick@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’m so glad Swedish schools have mostly ditched memorization (maybe too much sometimes though)
Etterra@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Teachers in the 90s: you won’t always have a calculator.
Me now: you were saying Ms. Knowitall?
Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 months ago
My chemistry teacher tried to teach us a “song” to remember it.
“Hehee libeb canofnee something something piscalar”
Which is stupid, because it was just reading the first few rows of it, but annoying that was 30 years ago and I still fucking remember it. I can’t even remember what I did yesterday. Fucking head full of nonsense.
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Lazy teaching
SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Just sing the Tom Lehrer Elements song
Thorry84@feddit.nl 3 months ago
Is this an American thing? We did absolutely not have to memorize any of that thing. We had to understand the structure, why the rows and columns etc. But memorizing it serves no purpose.
With every class including tests and exams we were allowed to use a reference book. This book was pretty thick and contained a whole lot of info including the periodic table and all the info about elements you could ever need.
I think my education (keep in mind this was 25 years ago) was focused more on the why and less on the what. If you understand why something is the way it is, the reason behind it and how to use it, you know a lot more than just being a flesh book that can list a bunch of facts.
krashmo@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s easier to verify rote memorization than actual understanding so naturally shitty schools focus on the former at the expense of the latter. Most American schools are shitty by academic standards.
ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
You’re not kidding. Public school in the city.
There were so many dumb things I had to memorize. Periodic table. Solar system moon and planets. Multiplication table.
Even worse is the people who see memory as intelligence because of that BS. I remember working at a office and the boss called Steve, the guy who knew 15 digits of Pi, as his right hand man. Steve is currently still working there. Congrats Steve your superior memory apparently can’t get you out of your deadend job.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
On the flip side, most American engineering degree programs do not rely on rote memorization, and instead heavily emphasize problem solving (especially these days), because, you know, computers and the internet exist, and faculty tend to understand that fact.
setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world 3 months ago
While it is true that rote memorization is a terrible thing for schools to focus on, I find it interesting that the discussion immediately jumped to “America bad” with a presumption it was a unique American practice. The many comments from around the world show it seems to be a more widespread practice.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
In Spain we did have to memorize it. Truly idiotic. People just invented mnemonic phrases to get through the exam and that’s it. It served no educational purpose whatsoever.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Of the four levels of learning, rote memorization is the lowest, easiest to achieve, easiest to test, and least useful. The student can demonstrate the ability to repeat a memorized phrase verbatim, or given a couple seconds to think about it they can rephrase it in their own words using their mental thesaurus. Multiple choice and short answer questions test rote memorization, which happen to be easy to grade, machines can do it. Rote memorization will have little effect on the student’s overall behavior, if it’s all you teach and test for you’re not a teacher you’re just cosplaying as one.
DacoTaco@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Also had to memorise it, and though its been ages, i can get the properties of some elements just by remembering +/- where on the table it is. So idk, sounds like a educational purpose :')
knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
My teacher, in germany, used memorising it as a punishment. Like four dudes in my class had to do it.
Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Our teacher offered extra credit to anyone who chose to memorize it. It was crazy too, I almost considered trying it since it didn’t seem that hard. The extra credit was enough to affect 20 percent of the grade. Then I realized most people who would try it are probably just smart enough to get an A already anyways, I know I was.
LANIK2000@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Czech here, also had to memorize it. But our school system here is 90% just memorizing shit, it’s a fucking joke.
Benaaasaaas@lemmy.world 3 months ago
In Lithuania we literally have the whole periodic table on the wall in every chemistry class I have ever been to.
Denvil@lemmy.one 3 months ago
In the US we also have that in a lot of classes… they just specifically cover it up during tests -_-
BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 3 months ago
Same in Hungary
And we have a book that you can use at every chemistry, biology, math and physics exam with a lot a formulas, glyph explenations, periodic table, material properties etc…
leisesprecher@feddit.org 3 months ago
My school was barely 15 years ago, but we also had a thin book handed out to us in 7th grade or so that contained charts and references for pretty much everything in a very condensed form. Periodic tables, formulas for math and physics, chemical and physical attributes for a bunch of materials, … And the entire ASCII table for some reason.
That was in Germany during the 00s and I still have that book, and three or four copies I stole over time.
kamenlady@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Gut gemacht, Leiser
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Memorizing the periodic table is probably the high-school assignment I’m most angry about to this day.
Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 3 months ago
You didn’t have to memorize the Canterbury Tales?
helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world 3 months ago
In America, we didn’t have to truley memorize it. For tests we had a reference packet that included the table.
That being said we did have to memorize a few major ones.
Its also important to recognize education is a state by state thing, not federal. The curriculum in Texas can be different than the one in Florida.
ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
In my highschool we had an English teacher who was super into the Beatles. Like “the second half of the year was literally just learning about the Beatles and it made up like 60% of your grade”. I used to like listening to them but not so much after that year. To this day I don’t know how they got away with that
PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 months ago
American here - we didn’t have to memorize it. All we had to do was know the groupings (Noble gas, metalloids, etc)
scytale@lemm.ee 3 months ago
You were lucky. Many education systems around the world still use memorization instead of comprehension as a measurement of learning.
JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It might be, I didn’t take chemistry in high school but those I know who did spent weeks memorizing it.
sushibowl@feddit.nl 3 months ago
Are you talking about Binas? All the homies love Binas.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We were expected to memorize it, yes, along with the properties of each column and generally what went where.
But that was like the first part of chem, and after that test we had the table up on the front wall.
wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
In Canada even in university I don’t think it was expected to be memorized.
My prof did offer extra credit to anyone who could sing the entire element song in front of the whole class, which was very fun, and some people nailed it.
My highschool teachers did the same.
I’ve always liked those efforts to make bohring content engaging
Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
I had to memorize it in university. And I didn’t even study chemistry, but “engineering science”. As a matter of fact: I actually always disliked chemistry.
tinycalcifer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s a thing with some teachers in some places. The quality of education in the US is hugely variable, because standards and curriculum are largely left up to local school systems with widely different funding and priorities.
SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I agree with you. Though some people out there do really love being flesh books.
MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml 3 months ago
In my US chemistry undergrad program, we were required to memorize ~40 elements that were frequently used. We had reference material available to us in the test packets, but the test time given was so low that if you hadn’t memorized those elements, you didn’t have time to finish the test.
Our general chemistry class was one of the hardest classes you could take and much of the grading seemed unfair. Very minor mistakes that could propagate throughout your calculations would lose full points. There was never enough time for exams: you were expected to be very sure of how to run your calculations, there wasn’t extra time for you to be unsure or have to redo an entire question because you messed up. It truly sucked.
That said, it was very effective at graduating competent chemists. I didn’t trust any of the biologists, nurses, pharmacists, etc. to do even basic unit conversions unless they took that class. You can often tell well into someone’s professional career if they went through such a rigorous training program because many of the calculations and principles we learned in this class are ones we use daily. I run into PhDs in biology fields who don’t know the difference between molar and molarity, ones who are inconsistent at converting masses to mols, etc.
It’s embarrassing to reach that point in your career and lack these basic skills. I’ll hear, “yeah, but they aren’t chemists, so it’s not so important that they know these things.” If that’s so, then why do they need to do it as part of their job? Skills like these are agnostic to degrees and positions, it’s like learning basic arithmetic for most scientists.
I fucking hated that class and the professor for putting us through that, but that faded quickly with time. He made the rest of our education easier and prepared us well for the work that was ahead.
fernlike3923@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
We had to memorize a small part of it in Turkiye too, but there is a new curriculum coming up which has a chance of changing that.
Badeendje@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Binas in the Netherlands
Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 3 months ago
When I was doing my Chemistry class in like 6th grade (Eastern European btw), we had to memorize it as one of our first assignments lol. Ofc, we didn’t need to know the full table but progressively learn the first 30-50 elements over the span of few months.
yamanii@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Brazil here, we had to, me and my friends even made some vulgar funny songs (to teenagers at least) to help memorize it, I had a pretty bad chem teacher.
khaleer@sopuli.xyz 3 months ago
If teacher is shitty, he will force students to memorise it, as mine.
Worx@lemmynsfw.com 3 months ago
In the UK we had to memorise up to 20 (Calcium), but that was alongside knowing how the elements are grouped and orbits of electrons etc. for GCSE chemistry (age 14-16, end of secondary school)